Ranking the masteries

[Matthew]

In this thread I will rank the masteries. Because I can, and because lists are fun

1. Soldier I had to give the top spot to the Soldier mastery. While other masteries bring more offensive capability, when it comes to pushing both offense and defense simultaneously the Soldier mastery is a clear favorite. Good base OA/DA, health, and armor. A built-in movement skill. A massive heal proc on low health. Even when ignoring the Crucible DLC, the Soldier is a solid backbone to any other mastery.

2. Demolitionist It was a close tie to Nightblade, but the number two spot goes to Demolitionist. What Soldier brings in defense, the Demolitionist brings in offense. Fire is arguably one of the better supported damage types, but that aside the mastery also brings massive OA, decent passive speed boost, and the best default weapon replacer. Decent built-in resist reduction. Many of the top dps builds feature Demolitionist.

3. Nightblade Similar to Demolitionist, this mastery adds some significant offensive capability. Decent speed, self-heal, some resist reduction, ability to dual-wield without trinket and various procs for doing so, movement skill. However, the damage types and reduction tend to be a bit more niche and perform best in melee range, so I had to rank behind Demolitionist which has more utility and options. Even so, many Nightblade combinations end up with dual-wield badassery and perform well.

4. Occultist This mastery shares a similar set-up to Demolitionist with decent OA boosts, relatively weak defenses, and some resist reduction. Anything poison shines here. However, Occultist tends to be a bit more focused, with pets and chaos/vitality needing specific builds to truly function well. It also needs to be mentioned that, while all of these have gotten buffs since release, this is also the mastery which has Doombolt, Raven, and Pox. All of which have less-than-desirable reputations.

5. Arcanist I suspect I will get quite a few who disagree with Arcanist being ranked this low, but I have my reasons. Maiven's, and the conversion to boost those odd secondary resists, is good. Albrecht's Aether Ray does massive single target dps. However, this mastery comes with some drawbacks. No speed boosts except for cast speed, which is already the easiest to cap. Iskandra's, as a weapon buff, requires heavy focus on all elements to be worth (if only using 1 out of the 3 elements, you are essentially using a third of the skill). Inner Focus gives a decent OA% boost, however the mastery has low base OA so it only breaks even. Panetti's, while decent with absolutely perfect gear, has this awkward elemental/aether split and gearing for that is surprisingly difficult (gear with only elemental or only aether is effectively half a bonus). The entire mastery often feels like it is running at 80% efficiency. Like it is almost top tier, but just not quite there.

6. Shaman Considering my other recent post, to no surprise I'm putting Shaman at bottom. Slow speed, low base OA/DA outside of Savagery-specific builds, 2-handers in general are not as good. Primal Strike is one of the most visually impressive attacks in the game. Wendigo Totem gives out massive constant %-based heal over time. Overall, has a lot of downsides and you spend a lot of your devotions, augments, and gear just trying to compensate for them rather than enhancing.

?? Necromancer A mystery! On the one hand, spooky skeletons. On the other, hard to say. A lot of aether/vitality, which seems awkward now, but with all the new gear and devotions, the combination may be more comfortable in the expansion. Personally, I don't like some of the limitations of pet builds, so I'm hoping the non-pet stuff is interesting or viable enough to carry the mastery.

?? Inquisitor Well, one thing is for sure, it will be nice being able to dual-pistol without sacrificing an item slot for it.

[Dyer1981]

I think I'd flip 3 and 4. I honestly think Occultist is for secondary selection what Soldier is for primary selection. Occultist has great offensive skills / debuffs and HP regen abillities. I agree that Pox and doombolt are iffy... doombolt being used primarily for constelation proc's and Pox for Ret builds when using the transmuter... but the bird is actually pretty solid now.

[raubrey]

FWIW My Shaman playthrough has been a lot easier than Occultist or Demo, even before I became a Warder, though after I did, that build is perfect for me. I think for people that play Normal/Veteran/Elite -- which is the majority -- can play any class fine if they do it right. Not knocking your opinion but hope people don't get the idea that the classes listed last are bad.
Also, so far, my constellations are not defensive (I should put my build up next time I'm in-game) in any way, save for a point or two.

My augments are, I concede. Also I'm a Primal Strike/Savage build with Totems (not maxed) and one point in pet. It doesn't melt face as some builds but again, seems fine for standard play.

[DeadlyDanDaMan]

Honestly, ranking individual masteries means nothing. You have to rank each mastery combination in order to get a true tier list.

[Dyer1981]

Originally posted by DeadlyDanDaMan:

Honestly, ranking individual masteries means nothing. You have to rank each mastery combination in order to get a true tier list.

Not sure I follow, the OP is ranking individual masteries by their strengths. No matter the list you won't have Arcanist over Soldier. Based on pure utility of the skills available to each class Soldier is much better.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by DeadlyDanDaMan:

Honestly, ranking individual masteries means nothing. You have to rank each mastery combination in order to get a true tier list.

Perhaps, but it was never meant to be a serious list anyway, just for fun.

Originally posted by raubrey:

FWIW My Shaman playthrough has been a lot easier than Occultist or Demo

Ya know, after the last post about Shaman it got me thinking to what the Shaman IS good at, which somewhat lead to this thread. And one of the first things I did immediately think of was that Shaman is one of the faster/easier masteries to level through the lower difficulties. Wendigo's flat health early on is massive which means your character just heals faster than anything can damage him, even while mostly ignoring armor and resists. Pumping physique, like many builds do, ensures your DA is always high enough and the Shaman issue with a lower amount of base OA/DA doesn't really come into play until late-game gearing min/maxing. For example a Soldier is unlikely to rush and max out Field Command until much later into the game.

I actually think Demolitionist is one of the more difficult masteries to level. While their defensive abilities eventually come into their own, especially when a second mastery is fleshed out, early on you are a bit of a glass and not even much of a cannon.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Dyer1981:

I think I'd flip 3 and 4.

I consider 2 through 4 to be a pretty close tie, but I think the wider range of use of the others justify the spots.

Most people will either do pets or completely ignore them or just waste the points to have them follow you around for visual flair, which cuts off many skills. Yes, Doombolt and Pox can be used to proc devotions, but I don't think this is usually an issue for most builds (pet builds can have a lot and conveniently Occultist has the whole pet thing going on). DEE and poison in general can be decent but I think in general more difficult to build around than a basic build using Demo or NB. For example I'd argue your basic pistol Pyromancer is easier to build/gear and performs better than a poison Witch Hunter.

But yeah all three are probably close enough where specific examples tend to overlap and could probably be flip-flopped depending.

[kekkuli]

Well i think this is a bit misleading for beginners at least. After reading this they could assume that soldier+anything is the best.

I would say it all depends. Are you going to try to beat crucible? Then for sure soldier&anything is good. Are you trying to farm nemesis bosses, or boc&sot and things like that? Then i would say there are many more options which do not include soldier.

[Matthew]

I don't know why that would be misleading. If a Soldier build performs well in Crucible, it performs even better outside of Crucible. Pierce Blademasters have been a solid choice for years. The other Soldier combinations aren't exactly lacking either.

If beginners don't get the information here, a random thread long after the game has been officially released, they will get it elsewhere. Whenever a thread pops up asking about good starting classes, Soldier is always recommended. I am curious though, you make it sound as if this is bad advice and I wonder what you would recommend otherwise?

[kekkuli]

Absolutely nothing wrong with soldier, i just find it a little boring. I prefer high damage fast moving builds like saboteur, witch hunter etc. But soldier might be better as a first character just because tankiness it naturally offers. Something like warder is pretty much fool proof :P

[raubrey]

Originally posted by Matthew:

Originally posted by DeadlyDanDaMan:

Honestly, ranking individual masteries means nothing. You have to rank each mastery combination in order to get a true tier list.

Perhaps, but it was never meant to be a serious list anyway, just for fun.

Originally posted by raubrey:

FWIW My Shaman playthrough has been a lot easier than Occultist or Demo

Ya know, after the last post about Shaman it got me thinking to what the Shaman IS good at, which somewhat lead to this thread. And one of the first things I did immediately think of was that Shaman is one of the faster/easier masteries to level through the lower difficulties. Wendigo's flat health early on is massive which means your character just heals faster than anything can damage him, even while mostly ignoring armor and resists. Pumping physique, like many builds do, ensures your DA is always high enough and the Shaman issue with a lower amount of base OA/DA doesn't really come into play until late-game gearing min/maxing. For example a Soldier is unlikely to rush and max out Field Command until much later into the game.

I actually think Demolitionist is one of the more difficult masteries to level. While their defensive abilities eventually come into their own, especially when a second mastery is fleshed out, early on you are a bit of a glass and not even much of a cannon.

That pretty sums up my experience to a "T" -- granted I didn't know wth I was doing when I played Demo, and would do things differently now, but yeah -- it was a glass-not-so-much-cannon.

[76561198068949605]

Which of the following classes would be best for a beginner starting on veteran?

Spellbreaker, Commando, Pyromancer or Elementalist?

[Faust Wither]

Originally posted by Pypar:

Which of the following classes would be best for a beginner starting on veteran?

Spellbreaker, Commando, Pyromancer or Elementalist?

comando

[FlamingX21]

I want to continue this tread, I see a light in it...

My List:

1. Soldier - Definitely the number one, kinda obvious why it seems to me, lots of uses. Easily to do with any other mastery.

2. Arcanist - Second best, mainly due opposite stuff from soldier, mainly magical ranged which you would rarely find in Soldier mastery tree, combine them together and easy stun resist fix too...

3. Demo - So, Demolitionist, no surprise why I like it aswell and I put it in 3rd spot cuz I love it adding for soldier, the best tank at the moment (before oathkeeper mastery comes in...). Anyway, lots of fire. I like fire. Fire is good...

4. Inquisitor - Reason why this ain't in first 3 is simple... I coudn't fit it in. It's also pretty good mastery to choose from, especially from survival aspect. Inquisitor Seal ect. or Aura of Convintion exclusive skill (gives a lot physical resist)

5. Nightblade, can't live without swords and blades. Love dual-melee but kinda feels meh.

6. Shaman - I don't know why I hate it for some reason, maybe because so many Ultos players I keep meeting or the lighting stuff happening around me. While it's very ironic to say I would hate this mastery (I really try to like it, but something always is missing). So I add something more to it of course, plain lighting, nana... not my style.

7. Occultist - Kinda same as Shaman, I hate it too, but still use it...

8. Necro - Ohhh, necromancers I have traumatic events happening when I saw those zoo's around me, players acting so pro, so cool, while AI does all the job. It's just how it is, and this is definitely be my least favorite mastery of all.

[kekkuli]

Originally posted by Pypar:

Which of the following classes would be best for a beginner starting on veteran?

Spellbreaker, Commando, Pyromancer or Elementalist?

None of those personally but if i had to choose i'd probably pick elementalist.

[76561198068949605]

Which would you choose if it was you, perhaps a cabalist?