DIABLO III SUCK

[Kepchook]

Am I right?

[D.Cub3d]

Цитата допису DarkestLight:

Цитата допису Transflux:

I mean, if you like no end game content, broken builds, and some of the most questionable decisions made by a dev team on an APRG, then sure. But to pretend like D2 was this perfect little haven of gaming is just ignorance, and his statement rings true.

Either get out of the rabbit hole, or find something to add that actually backs your claims of D2 being superior. Or you're just trolling and thats fine too.

First, runewords opened up a plethora of builds that you probably never considered. Just because people use cookie cutter builds does not mean that there are only cookie cutter builds. Cookie cutter builds are used in... every game like this ever... Get your head out of the sand and go make my personal favorite build, a zeal sorceress.

Second, white items and whatnot are all exploits. Exploits that were FIXED by the way (although they never managed to fix duping entirely). I don't see what's questionable about that. Its not like people cheat in D3, GD, or PoE, right?

Lastly, you're sadly mistaken if you think high level players sat around in Baal runs all day. That was for low skill players to leach and for exp. Nothing more, nothing less. You can farm many MANY places in D2, but again Baal runs were popular so that must be what everyone was doing!

PS: D3 grifts have zero variety... The change in the scenery is an illusion, the only thing that differs in the slightest is the boss at the end. At least D2 enemies aren't just a random monster with a yellow or blue name tag and 4 randomly selected abilities from a very small pool.

Sure Runewords opened up build possibilities, but they also drowned out others, many classes became almost nonexistent because runewords and +all skills could make you almost any class. Yeah there's some cool builds but many were broken and content built around said broken builds (uber tristrams for instance, not any build could run these limiting a really interesting encounter). There was already tons of build dIversity to start with, items made sure of that. My favorite was a faded bow assassin, that doesn't require runewords. Many of the builds that were indirectly nerfed by the introduction of runewords. Creating a blatant top tier to classes. Some of the skills added by runewords took the reason to play certain clases away.

There is hardly any difficult content in diablo 2, let's be honest. Even uber tristrams are not that hard so long added ways you are playing one of the builds that can handle them, they're fairly easy no matter your gear budget. I used to run ubers on the most half assed smiter with no issues. And also, monster affixes weren't all that unique in D2 either. And also, most of the variety in end game was doing specific runs to get a low drop rate torch/rune.

All those exploited items hung around for entire ladder seasons, some for more. They let cruel weapons and ith runes ignore players armor, for the whole ladder season.

And then there's the combat, I don't think many arpgs have as fluid of combat as D3. D2 was very stiff, but it's also super old. To be expected.

Both games have their merits. Sets in d3 right now are no different than the runewords in d2, they dictate the meta. But stop pretending like D2 is some perfect arpg. It's just as flawed as any other.

[DarkestLight]

Цитата допису Transflux:

And then there's the combat, I don't think many arpgs have as fluid of combat as D3. D2 was very stiff, but it's also super old. To be expected.

Both games have their merits. Sets in d3 right now are no different than the runewords in d2, they dictate the meta. But stop pretending like D2 is some perfect arpg. It's just as flawed as any other.

I'm too lazy to have this conversation in two topics (my fault, but meh) so just a couple of quick responses.

You don't have much experience on high level D3 do you? T13 boils down to running through a rift and watching everything die. There is NO combat. High level greater rifts boil down to sitting in the middle of as many enemies as possible (at least 1 elite) and clicking a few buttons over and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over. I'm sorry, did you say something about fluid combat?

Sets in D3 are a completely invalid comparison for runewords in D2. If you're missing a single set item in D3 your build DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD! If your missing a single BiS item in D3 your build DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD! D3 has absolutely no freaking viable build diversity. Every class has a T13 build and a GR 95+ build. Nothing else works. Sets single handedly DESTROYED build diversity in D3.

Runewords in D2 are slightly better then most other items in that slot. Missing one? Its ok, your build is a little weaker but works fine. We have a bunch of new BiS items sure, but rune words drastically increased build diversity. D2 was better for it.

And lastly, was D2 perfect? Like I said in the other topic, nope. Did I enjoy D2 far more then ANY other game of the same general type? You bet your ass I did, and don't you dare tell me otherwise. (As a side note, GD is definitely a contender. Great work Crate!)

[RodHull]

Цитата допису KG:

Цитата допису RodHull:

Well if you want to pretend that 'Bud' was a term of endearment for someone you never even spoke to before let alone met, and not a flippant way of attempting to exert some imagined superiority then good on you.

I don't know whether to recommend you visit my part of the world in hope you'll learn that some people are just friendly or to recommend you avoid it because you'll assume everyone here is arrogant and flip.

Цитата допису RodHull:

Not worked up at all btw, Its a game games dont get me worked up hell the state of the world doesnt get me worked so D3 back at release certainly doesn't, just having a discussion. But fine if youd prefer to bow out and fly in the face of all generally accepted wisdom and Blizzards own press releases good on you again.

Okay, so you start insulting people ('bud' being an insult in your vernacular) when you aren't even angry. I can safely say you should avoid my part of the world.

I dont believe I ever said it was an insult... let me see

"a flippant way of attempting to exert some imagined superiority"

Nope I didnt nice attempt to subvert my statement though kudos

[Ricky Sauce]

Цитата допису Transflux:

Цитата допису Bruce Leroy:

You sound like the current Blizzard developers. Telling people what they like isn't really what they like...

I mean, if you like no end game content, broken builds, and some of the most questionable decisions made by a dev team on an APRG, then sure. But to pretend like D2 was this perfect little haven of gaming is just ignorance, and his statement rings true.

Either get out of the rabbit hole, or find something to add that actually backs your claims of D2 being superior. Or you're just trolling and thats fine too.

Whoa there, buddy. Don't put words in my mouth. Furthermore, your enjoyment(or lack thereof) of the game is not in any way related to how other people feel about the game. Also, "some of the most questionable decisions made by a dev team on an ARPG"? Elaborate?

Just because you didn't enjoy D2 doesn't mean other people couldn't have possibly enjoyed it. I mean, it's old as ♥♥♥♥ and people still play the ♥♥♥♥ out of it to this day. Something had to be right with it.

Though, I don't need to add anything to ♥♥♥♥, the only claim I made was that his statement was that of the same statement Blizzard likes to make when people talk about their old games or old content when speaking of World of Warcraft. They like to throw around that, "you think you do but you don't" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Seamus]

Цитата допису Bruce Leroy:

"you think you do but you don't"

AKA: The exact moment I realized blizzard was beyond any hope of becoming something other than the flaming pile of ♥♥♥♥ they are now.

[ogreballerina]

I bought it just a few weeks ago.
I was bored....sue me.
Way too easy ! ( and simple )
I'm just melting stuff so fast it's boring.
Lvl 70 Paragon 70.
Just left click, right click..once in awhile maybe use hotkeyed attack.
I thought Torment was going to be hard...and for the first 20 levels it was and I even died a few times. Just using stuff I found or made,,no handme downs.
Now it's boredom. ( Act V )
There's none of that tension that GD brings out in battle.
I died alot in GD and it was a blast !
Playing D3 did make me want to play GD again...a game with some meat in it.

[metzger]

Цитата допису DarkestLight:

You don't have much experience on high level D3 do you? T13 boils down to running through a rift and watching everything die. There is NO combat. High level greater rifts boil down to sitting in the middle of as many enemies as possible (at least 1 elite) and clicking a few buttons over and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over. I'm sorry, did you say something about fluid combat?

Describe it how you like but it's still better than the same process in Diablo 2 where you just teleport to boss, kill it and repeat endlessly. At least in D3 you fight regular monsters and elites and you have to be good at that.

Цитата допису DarkestLight:

Sets in D3 are a completely invalid comparison for runewords in D2. If you're missing a single set item in D3 your build DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD! If your missing a single BiS item in D3 your build DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD!

That is simply not true in most cases. There are some builds heavily designed around very specific and unique set bonuses but most of them are not. You can play Thorns Bombardment Crusader without any set items. They just improve your damage. You can play Wave of Light Monk without any legendary items at all. It's a good starter build in seasons. Manald Heal Wizard only needs one ring to work, everything else just buffs him. You can play Multishot DH without UE set, you can play Whirlwind Barb without Wrath of the Wastes. And the list goes on and on. You are so wrong about D3.

[DarkestLight]

Цитата допису metzger:

Цитата допису DarkestLight:

You don't have much experience on high level D3 do you? T13 boils down to running through a rift and watching everything die. There is NO combat. High level greater rifts boil down to sitting in the middle of as many enemies as possible (at least 1 elite) and clicking a few buttons over and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over. I'm sorry, did you say something about fluid combat?

Describe it how you like but it's still better than the same process in Diablo 2 where you just teleport to boss, kill it and repeat endlessly. At least in D3 you fight regular monsters and elites and you have to be good at that.

Цитата допису DarkestLight:

Sets in D3 are a completely invalid comparison for runewords in D2. If you're missing a single set item in D3 your build DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD! If your missing a single BiS item in D3 your build DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD!

That is simply not true in most cases. There are some builds heavily designed around very specific and unique set bonuses but most of them don't. You can play Thorns Bombardment Crusader without any set items. They just improve your damage. You can play Wave of Light Monk without any legendary items at all. It's a good starter build in seasons. Manald Heal Wizard only needs one ring to work, everything else just buffs him. You can play Multishot DH without UE setб you can play Whirlwind Barb wothout Wrath of the Wastes. And list goes on and on. You are so wrong about D3.

Ya... I farmed plenty of stuff other then bosses in D2. That's a common myth, or at very least something unskilled players resorted to because they didn't know better. Clearing trash mobs was very worth it in D2, so were elites that were... actually unique... As were monsters, anyone remember souls from act 4, the bane of many hardcore players? (even bots bothered to kill trash mobs and elites...)

Ok on sets. First, you can NOT play a thorns crusader with no sets (not anywhere near high difficulty). You can resort to LoN, it was a top build for exactly 1 season. Now Invokers is better in EVERY SINGLE WAY POSSIBLE. You can't get ANYWHERE with wave of light and yellow items. You would top out at torment 6 with 3K paragon levels... Not to mention your missing out on 610x damage (31x, 1.5x, 1.5x 3.5x and 2.5x between sets and BiS) I'm sorry, but if you think 1/610th (~0.16%) of the damage you can do is gonna get you in GR95+... you have not played anywhere near that difficulty. Even missing ONE of those multipliers will kill your build, and that's not even counting elemental, elite, gems, 20K+ main stat, etc...

PS, that set and BiS multiplier is nothing unusual, EVERYONE on the leaderboard uses the exact same items for good reason in D3, Blizzard makes builds that allow for ZERO deviation for competitive gameplay and then focuses their entire game on competitive gameplay.

Try to know what the hell you are talking about if your gonna try to argue your point...

[Eater of Ecto]

Blizzard has been slowly becoming a joke in recent years because many of their devs have been dumbing down their games to appeal to the casual crowd. I was never much into Diablo back in the late 90s and early 2000s but I've played SC, WoW, HS and OW and over the years it seems they either remove any sort of thought requirment from their games or dumb it down a notch or two. HS is a great example of this and I'm sure you can find it in D3 as well.

[Ricky Sauce]

Цитата допису metzger:

That is simply not true in most cases. There are some builds heavily designed around very specific and unique set bonuses but most of them are not. You can play Thorns Bombardment Crusader without any set items. They just improve your damage. You can play Wave of Light Monk without any legendary items at all. It's a good starter build in seasons. Manald Heal Wizard only needs one ring to work, everything else just buffs him. You can play Multishot DH without UE set, you can play Whirlwind Barb without Wrath of the Wastes. And the list goes on and on. You are so wrong about D3.

You can "play" any build you want in D3... Just like I could play a battlemage on Titan Quest. Though, not if I wanted to do anything beyond normal.

[prpl_mage]

To summarize, Diablo 3 has the same flaws as any other ARPG these days. Once you reach the end game it's over.

Torchlight 2 is a good game, Diablo 3 is a good game, Path of Exile is a good game, Grim Dawn is a good game and many others out there. But once you reach the end, that's it.
Diablo 3 have at least tried to add some end game content with additional difficulty levels, the rifts and set dungeons. It's not especially fun but it's there.

The only thing the above mentioned games do for me is to want me to relive the diablo 2 days, then I play diablo 2 for a week and get bored because I'm just glorifying it.

[RodHull]

Цитата допису DarkestLight:

Ya... I farmed plenty of stuff other then bosses in D2. That's a common myth, or at very least something unskilled players resorted to because they didn't know better. Clearing trash mobs was very worth it in D2, so were elites that were... actually unique... As were monsters, anyone remember souls from act 4, the bane of many hardcore players? (even bots bothered to kill trash mobs and elites...)

Indeed most of my time in D2 was spent with me and my buddy who I shared a flat with at the time playing via lan on player difficulty 8 just clearing our favourite acts, one of the rarest drops I ever found was from a trash mob.

If you could stand the mind numbing boredom of it running baal et al 24/7 netted you slightly increased drop rates of high level gear but nothing to speak of you could easily find good gear just playing areas you liked, and the reason it had such longevity was indeed the unique way elites were created, sometimes youd meet certain mobs who abilities that were a perfect storm and were harder to beat than bosses. That was half the fun of D2.

Цитата допису prpl_mage:

To summarize, Diablo 3 has the same flaws as any other ARPG these days. Once you reach the end game it's over.

Torchlight 2 is a good game, Diablo 3 is a good game, Path of Exile is a good game, Grim Dawn is a good game and many others out there. But once you reach the end, that's it.
Diablo 3 have at least tried to add some end game content with additional difficulty levels, the rifts and set dungeons. It's not especially fun but it's there.

The only thing the above mentioned games do for me is to want me to relive the diablo 2 days, then I play diablo 2 for a week and get bored because I'm just glorifying it.

Your glossing over massive issues...

T2 I wont comment on I havent played it

POE but it has no 'end' as such if your running ladder races or such like thats your goal if your not your farming for interesting maps to run. Both of which are very time consuming processes, if your not uber trading getting good gear in POE takes ages.

GD if your not running crucible finding good legendary sets and specific items takes a LOOONGG time, like I have 100s of hours in game and still have only found maybe 20% of the stuff I want, and I still have 3 alts to finish ultimate with, nemesis bosses to fight, secret quest lines to run on ultimate... I have so much content left to play its ridiculous.

D3 now dont get me wrong its a vast improvement over its release state, but items are way to easy to find, in a game franchise built around its awesome loot generation that everyone else copied its sad to see people literally playing the game to find perfect version of legendary gear cause finding them is so common there is nothing else left to do. And rifts are hardly amazing they are just random quest maps with new mob variety plopped on them, I mean its ok but its hardly exciting. D3s problem its become to arcadey to casual it went from being so grindy, mean in its loot and tedious nobody wanted to play it to being so easy and generous that there isnt much point in playing it.

[Morda]

Oh man, reading this thread has filled me with sich oleasant memories! True, I do not like the toxicity, because, to me, Diablo 3 is definitely one of my top-loved action rpgs of all time. Trying to go to Diablo 2 is not possible, and I view other action rpgs as their own entities, they just do not scratch the Diablo itch for me like Diablo 3 does.
That said, I am a huge fan of action rpgs! I have played and loved so many! I picked up Grim Dawn based on the thousands of hours I spent in Titan Quest. I spent so much time in Sacred and Sacred 2, it is scary. Every game has their own thing that makes them great. What Diablo 3 did for me was allow me to experiment and build my characters just the way I wanted to, without having to reroll over and over again. The Excel Soreadsheet minmaxing of Diablo 2 is sorely missing for sure, and I feel for the folks that love that kind of stuff. For me, however, I never cared about minmaxing, it is always about the fun. If I am having fun then it is worthwhile, even if I cannot do the top badass tier content, or struggle with it. I always have fun in Diablo 3, and Grim Dawn, and all the others (currently I am having a blast in Zombasite), and I certainly hope Blizzard keeps in doing what they are doing, and I am soooo stoked for the Grim Dawn expansion. I cannot even bring myself to olay Grim Dawn anymore because I am way too hyped about having a non-permanent summon Necromancer with a dash of Inquisitor to apice things up. The wheels in my head are already churning out possibilities and I cannot wait to try then out. My poor petless acid/poison Conjurer will have to stay in retirement a wee longer, he will probably be the first to go in and melt faces in the new content!
With same excitement I am awaiting the Necromancer for Diablo 3! That stuff looks amazing! Maybe I will not be doing Greater Rifts 300+ or whatever, but I will be having fun, and, in the end, that is all that is noteworthy about games. I am just glad that Diablo 3 was not buried with all the criticism, would have made me genuinely sad to see my own personal Game of the Decade die out.