Savagery..why are you so bad?

[Parallaxe]

Hello.

Right now Savagery is really weak compared to the other standard attack moves.
I do not know how this was not changed with the last patches but this attack is very weak in comparison to cadence or fire strike. For the points youhave to spent you only gain a very small amount of boni and you even have to charge the attack up what is not fun if you use slow 2hander.

There is this myth that Savagery does empower other attacks...which is not true. I tested it and besides the %bleed and %lightning nothing else contributes to other attacks. This is sad. Maybe this skill was meant to be really interesting in the beginning but right now it is weak and lacks ANY aoe capability. I could go on and on about every part of the skill and how it is just not enough but everybody who has played with a full cadence and a full savagery should know what I mean.

Savagery is underpowered and needs a revistit from the devs.

[Fendelphi]

If it did the exact same thing as Cadence(pure damage), then there would be no real difference between picking one or the other.
Aside from the fact that it is using Lightning instead of Physical as a main component, Savagery is not just about pure damage.

It DOES give you several persistent buffs that lasts as long as you have any charges(an increase in bleeding and lightning damage potential, as well as an increase in OA, DA and health regen, and finally, a buff to attack speed). These boni DOES affect your other abilities.

For instance, by using Savagery, you are also buffing Primal Strike and the effect of Mogdrogen's Pact due to the extra modifiers. It fits the skills of the Shaman quite well.

If you want a pure offensive ability, you can forgo the first upgrade(Tenacity of the Bear) and save some skill points for other abilities(a slight loss in OA, but it is an option).
Or if you are not looking for an auto attack damage increase, but only survivability, you can put 1 point into Savagery and max Tenacity of the Bear.


If you compare the initial skill Savagery(with full charges) to the initial Cadence, you have this:
Cadence, every 3rd auto attack.
420% weapon damage, 182 physical damage.

Savagery, 3 auto attacks(so striking the same amount of times).
3x150% weapon damage, 3x37 Lightning damage(+90%, so it is actually 3x70), and 42 bleeding over 3 seconds(+90%, so it is actually 79 over 3 seconds).
And due to max charges, you multiply it all with 1.15.

So that is 517% weapon damage, 241 Lightning Damage and 90 bleeding over 3 seconds, with 3 attacks.

Suddenly, it is much more competetive, right?
Ofc, it takes a few swings before it is charged up, but since the single target damage remains competetive with Cadence once charged, and the boni affects other aspects of your class(both offensively and defensively. BTW, the Transmuter great for 2-handed weapons), it more than makes up for the "delay" in overall DPS.

If the skill should have a buff, it would be to the upgrades(Tenacity of the Bear and Storm Touched), since the base skill is powerful enough in itself.

[Parallaxe]

Hello.

No. Sry but No.

First let me say that Tenacity is about the best thing Savagery has going for it. I like it and if one wishes to go for a health reg build you really need it. The OA and DA are on par with other abilities no problems here.

But the rest...

On average Cadence (pure) deals (100+100+420)/3 % WD and 182/3 per strike..~207% + 60 phys. Compare that with 150% + 37*1,15 from Savagery and it loses BIG time. the %damage boni are additive to all the others you have and on a decent geared character should not make more of a difference than maybe 10% lightning and bleed damage. The flat bleed damage is a joke with 42 over 3 seconds which means once we look at end game high attack speed the per attack bonus is minimal.
And that is without the awsome boni Cadence gets from its addons. 3 Target aoe, a massive bleed and a real bonus to all weapon damage attacks (+several nice %damage boni).

The only build I can see right now for Savagery is a one handed lightning build. For all other builds there are stronger and more capable skills in the game. And even then Savagery has to compete with firestrike which has been buffed to be awesome.

Fendelphi I wish Savagery was stronger because I like the idea of the skill but right now it can not hold a candle to the other standard attacks.

[DeadlyDanDaMan]

Savagery isn't bad. You are high.

[The_Mess]

Savagery is fine, you just have to have +damage for the damage types it has and of course, pump it up when need be to ultimate levels. Sure, it might not have the pure clear speed Candence has, but the buffs it provides are what makes it great and allows for greater synergy than Candence for lighting/electrocute or bleed based builds.

[jbridso]

You guys are not taking into consideration how Savagery interacts with on default attack skills vs how Cadence does not interact with the same skills.

Every attack with savagery can trigger the Nightblade's/Soldier's "% chance on default attack" skills which synergize to create truely devastating attacks.

The problem with Cadence is the fact that "% on default attack" skills can only occur on the 2 "normal" hits in the chain as Cadence always triggers on the 3rd, reducing on default attack skills to 0% chance. Thus, why Cadence was buffed up to it's seemingly insanely high 420%+ weapon damage.

Since cadence/savagery interact differently with different skills, you cannot compare them directly. You really have to look at the pros/cons of entire builds for a fair comparison.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by jbridso:

You guys are not taking into consideration how Savagery interacts with on default attack skills vs how Cadence does not interact with the same skills.

Every attack with savagery can trigger the Nightblade's/Soldier's "% chance on default attack" skills which synergize to create truely devastating attacks.

The problem with Cadence is the fact that "% on default attack" skills can only occur on the 2 "normal" hits in the chain as Cadence always triggers on the 3rd, reducing on default attack skills to 0% chance. Thus, why Cadence was buffed up to it's seemingly insanely high 420%+ weapon damage.

Since cadence/savagery interact differently with different skills, you cannot compare them directly. You really have to look at the pros/cons of entire builds for a fair comparison.

Not to mention the every third hit/every fourth hit stuff has been INCREDIBLY annoying to deal with since it was implemented in titan quest.

[jbridso]

It actually wasn't too bad in Titan Quest if you stacked up the on default attack proc's since they counted as 2 strikes when they triggered. So you'd get the big hits every other attack in some cases.

[Jet Uppercut]

I do generally prefer Deadly Momentum on the builds that I can take it, but for 16 points Savagery is a swiss army knife skill. Bonus weapon damage, bonus flat damage and damage bonuses for those flat damage types all in one skill. It builds itself. And it can proc WPS on every attack, unlike cadence, so for WPS heavy builds it will increase your DPS since cadence and a skill can't activate at the same time.

[Matthew]

I have yet to actually level and build a dedicated savagery character, but I've only heard good things about the skill. Kind of surprised to even see this thread.

[powbam]

Originally posted by Matthew:

I have yet to actually level and build a dedicated savagery character, but I've only heard good things about the skill. Kind of surprised to even see this thread.

It's the first thread I can recall seeing about it. It works great no matter whether you're Sword&Board, 2Hand, or Dual-wield. Plus it buffs any other skills that are used after it charges up and it's perfect for WPS-focused builds.

The OP is going to have to work hard to drum up support for his ideals. Right now he appears to be in a lonely little place.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by powbam:

Originally posted by Matthew:

I have yet to actually level and build a dedicated savagery character, but I've only heard good things about the skill. Kind of surprised to even see this thread.

It's the first thread I can recall seeing about it. It works great no matter whether you're Sword&Board, 2Hand, or Dual-wield. Plus it buffs any other skills that are used after it charges up and it's perfect for WPS-focused builds.

The OP is going to have to work hard to drum up support for his ideals. Right now he appears to be in a lonely little place.

Yeah... I mostly use it in hardcore with a rifle. Works great.