Javelin Archer sucks

[Locklave]

1. fire rate is too slow
2. damage is far too low
3. ammo is far too limited considering the above 2 points.
4. range is too low
5. weapon dropoff is too fast

There are several things that truely hamper the class not including the above include not sharing the dagger overhand strike with bow and crossbow users. I duelled a friend of mine and found the jalevin build dagger overhand strike simply doesn't seem to land when it should. using a bow/xbow main hand the blows land nearly every swing.

As for shield... why can't it be raised within the first 2+sec of a throw? the shield simply refuses to raise.

Javelin has less
1. range
2. fire rate
3. damage
4. ammo
then a bow

Javelin has less
1. range
2. damage
3. ammo
then a xbow

this doesn't mean they can't get kills nor does it mean they can't own face, but Javelin thrower shouldn't be the only archers climbing a mountain.

[Oni Lux]

Javalin archer here. i think it is fine the way it is. except for the ammo especially the heavy javalin.

[Cryptic]

Needs moar historical inaccuracy!

(make spears easyer to replenish then! Even though, for instance, the heavy spear is designed to bend on impact, to avoid being thrown back)

[Peaceful Panda]

I think they are okay. An option to not use the shield would be nice.

[Scrundle]

I enjoy playing as a javelin archer myself and I feel that they are relatively balanced, a good direct hit with a thrown javelin does considerable damage whilst at the same time being a perfectly capable melee weapon.

Melee is infact where my javelin archer gets the majority of his kills; the shield bash is far more effective than a kick I find which gives a considerable advantage up close combined with the fast stabs of the javelin and should someone run away then I can throw that javelin up their bottom to finish them off.

It is a very flexible character who can fill several roles and is good for support, I do not feel that it needs any more range or damage frankly.

In choosing javelin you are forgoing the extreme ranges of the bow and crossbow for greater utility and staying power on the battlefield, the javelin archer playstyle for me is very different from that of a bow, I do not avoid combat or the front lines, I wade in there with the other melee classes and show the enemy the sharp end of my point.

I'm not an amazing skilled player by any means but I feel that if the javelins were more powerful then it would be edging into unfair territory.

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Originally posted by Locklave:

1. fire rate is too slow
2. damage is far too low
3. ammo is far too limited considering the above 2 points.
4. range is too low
5. weapon dropoff is too fast

Points 1 and 2- the damage is the same as the heavy crossbow on 3 classes, and higher on knights, yet the fire rate is faster, so neither need a buff.
You can oneshot archers and MAAs, kill vanguards with one throw and a shield bash, and knights with one throw and one swing, all without having to switch to a secondary to fight like any other archer.

Point 4- the javelin is meant as a close range weapon. Use it as such. If you want a longer ranged weapon, take one of the bows.

Point 5- again, the power of a human arm is considerably less than that of a bow or a crossbow. The range is reasonable.

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Javelin has less
1. range
2. fire rate
3. damage
4. ammo
then a bow

1- as it should. Bows impart considerably more force to a projectile than a human arm.

2- again, pretty accurate. And considering the amount of damage they do, increasing the fire rate would be.... controversial.

3- Wrong. Heavy javelins do more damage than every single bow, and every single crossbow apart from the heavy, where the damage values are the same. Ordinary javelins also do more damage than every bow and crossbow, with the exception of the heavy.

Originally posted by Locklave:

As for shield... why can't it be raised within the first 2+sec of a throw? the shield simply refuses to raise.

To prevent archers waiting until the last possible second to throw their almost one-hit-kill guaranteed weapon in the middle of an enemy's attack animation, then raising their shield to block the opponent instantly if they miss the throw, or finish him with an unblockable shield bash if they don't. You see how this combo might be viewed as a little OP?



Here's the damage values for every weapon in the game.
Were you using in-game percentages to make your judgement?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=1

[Tarman]

Sir.....Can't you simply use another class then??? ;)

[the cup]

Its fine but increase the ammo

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Originally posted by ToastTheMoast:

Its fine but increase the ammo

Why? They're pretty damn powerful, and you're never more than 20 seconds from an ammo box. A lot less, on some maps.

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Mr Eyl:

Originally posted by Locklave:

Javelin has less
1. range
2. fire rate
3. damage
4. ammo
then a bow

1- as it should. Bows impart considerably more force to a projectile than a human arm.

2- again, pretty accurate. And considering the amount of damage they do, increasing the fire rate would be.... controversial.

3- Wrong. Heavy javelins do more damage than every single bow, and every single crossbow apart from the heavy, where the damage values are the same. Ordinary javelins also do more damage than every bow and crossbow, with the exception of the heavy.

Originally posted by Locklave:

As for shield... why can't it be raised within the first 2+sec of a throw? the shield simply refuses to raise.

To prevent archers waiting until the last possible second to throw their almost one-hit-kill guaranteed weapon in the middle of an enemy's attack animation, then raising their shield to block the opponent instantly if they miss the throw, or finish him with an unblockable shield bash if they don't. You see how this combo might be viewed as a little OP?



Here's the damage values for every weapon in the game.
Were you using in-game percentages to make your judgement?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=1

If hitting with a ranged weapon at close range is so easy why aren't archers headshoting melee targets? also why is the person the archer is attack not trying to evade and running in a straight line?

To land a shield bash means you threw the javelin at point blank for them to have no time to react, if they are that close they already hit the archer. otherwise the shieldbash would hit air. No skilled melee attacker wasn't already midswing or nearly fullswing opon point blank. Point blank is melee range.

So your scenerio would only be OP in a world where melee is to stupid to evade where the archer they face has perfect aim and the melee don't start swinging until they are standing on there target. This scenerio is total nonsense.

If that chart is one of median damage values as I suspect it is the damage range is being inflated every time someone lands a back attack. Archers do +50% on back attacks.

[carrion]

Originally posted by Locklave:

If that chart is one of median damage values as I suspect it is the damage range is being inflated every time someone lands a back attack. Archers do +50% on back attacks.

the damage values in the chart are represent the base damage of weapons without any modifiers.

[Locklave]

how do they get those numbers? because they have details for hit locations, so its more then base values.

[carrion]

Originally posted by Locklave:

how do they get those numbers? because they have details for hit locations, so its more then base values.

the base value is in the "damage" colums. the damage on hit locations is just derivative of that, look at the formula in the hit location fields.

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Originally posted by Locklave:

If hitting with a ranged weapon at close range is so easy why aren't archers headshoting melee targets?

I manage. :)

Also, the hitbox on javelins is considerably larger than arrows or bolts. This means it should be......?

Originally posted by Locklave:

To land a shield bash... blah blah ....total nonsense.

The last part is right. I never said the bash had to be performed instantly- you can throw a javelin at a comfortable range and instantly run up and finish a nearby enemy with a bash. This is a pretty powerful combo already.

Originally posted by Locklave:

If that chart is one of median damage values as I suspect it is the damage range is being inflated every time someone lands a back attack. Archers do +50% on back attacks.

There is no median. There is no range of damage values. All damage values are absolute. Weapons do not do between X and Y damage ingame- they do X, every time, plus applicable bonuses.
The chart includes the headshot bonuses, but not backstab bonuses.

I suspect you're going to try to argue these numbers further- don't. They're absolutely accurate, and referred to across the community.

[Snorri Nosebiter]

Originally posted by Locklave:

how do they get those numbers? because they have details for hit locations, so its more then base values.

Each hit location has a value for each weapon type and strike type. It's explained as a bonus or penalty in the game tips, but it isn't worked out as such. You do a straight Y damage for hitting the torso, and X damage for hitting the head, not Y + bonus.

Even the backstabs aren't a true bonus- the back is just a 4th hitbox for archer melee weapons that receives X damage.