Movement speed/dancing and some problems with it.

[GAY FISH]

With the new addition to the chase mechanic the different speeds between class is almost none.
VGs and MAA basically run the same speed even though there should be quite the difference and the difference between Knight and MAA is even worse. If I run faster with no shoes on then why would 30kg of armor not slow you down A LOT in comparison to the guy with 3kg of armor? It shouldn't take 30 seconds to overtake a knight who was just 10 feet infront of you if you have next to no armor while the knight is just bedazzled head to toe in it.

The new meta for this game is just grab a long/powerful weapon and just runaway and swing everytime you make a mistake, usually works too if the player dancing isn't an idiot. If you chase them you risk getting hit right in the ♥♥♥♥ing face, if you don't then you lose your moment of advantage (whatever that may be) and they just reset. It'd be easy as hell to change that, just make the average speed of each class quite noticeably different. Another easy and fair fix would be to have stam cost of swinging proportionately more while sprinting, this would cause dancing for any class to be much less prominent and more of a last ditch effort instead of the majority of your playstyle. Lastly, since that chase mechanic buff is still in effect you don't have to worry about not catching up to anyone so infinitely running away as a light class against a slower one wouldn't be possible. Hell, a slow but steady stamina drain on sprinting wouldn't hurt either.

I wanna have a discussion about this and maybe others' ideas on how to fix what.

[Vara]

Ha-ah, talking about realism? Yeah, that'll never happen.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Game was based on Hollywood. Says so on the steam page.

Mashing control and pushing xx2 is a brilliant strategy against these sorts of players however.

[Xylvion]

git gud.

[Lu2]

chase mechanic is kinda unreliable and broken now.just like kick or charche atack.
silly torn banner

[The Faceless Man]

running away doesn't always work. i'll admit, it's what i do when i'm completely out of options.

chasing your opponent is a bad idea. it can be a bait tactic in disguise. in traditional combat, the only reason to chase is to leave no witnesses, but in this game that doesn't matter. you effectively won the fight if they decide to flee, and if they failed a bait attempt, you will now have an opening.

chase has a delay to trigger also. it's long enough to not really contribute to a battle much. a proper escape usually requires looking back or injuring your opponent enough that it's not worth the risk anymore.

[GAY FISH]

Originally posted by Solar:

running away doesn't always work. i'll admit, it's what i do when i'm completely out of options.

chasing your opponent is a bad idea. it can be a bait tactic in disguise. in traditional combat, the only reason to chase is to leave no witnesses, but in this game that doesn't matter. you effectively won the fight if they decide to flee, and if they failed a bait attempt, you will now have an opening.

chase has a delay to trigger also. it's long enough to not really contribute to a battle much. a proper escape usually requires looking back or injuring your opponent enough that it's not worth the risk anymore.

Chase isn't the problem, it's the movement speeds between classes. The differences in speed is almost nonexistant. Also the running isn't a bait, it's to cover up a mistake like a missed strike or panic parry. If I don't chase them they reset and I lose any advantage, If I do I risk getting one shotted if I miss even one strike, which is really easy to do when a knight runs at almost the same speed as a maa and when I have a 1 foot long weapon and they have a 3-7ft weapon one miss is all they need for an easy win.
I've done the tactic myself as a VG and it is ridiculously easy.

Originally posted by -DA-L- Dusty:

I love and hate dancers. Dancers are ussually third person players who will constantly be swinging until they are out of stamina, simply kite them and you have no problem, and when they are out of stamina smash them.

As for the chase mechanic? I have never seen it come into play, most people kite facing towards the chaser.

As I said previously, chase mechanic isn't the problem, it's the movement speed betwixt classes. Also, any player who isn't a total idiot will not swing wildly, they'll just run any time they make a mistake and you have a choice right there to attempt to punish it or let them reset.

Lastly, no one seemed to notice the extra stamina drain on swings when sprinting part of the rant, does anyone have a reason for why it shouldn't exist? Because it really, really should.

[The Faceless Man]

well you can't compare movement speed with maa because of instant-dodge. that will typically disorient most opponents and let you exit combat pretty safely and reliably. the fact they move faster just means they can break reach easier without costing stamina. they can also more easily dodge in close-combat as well.

archers are gimp, we should all know that by now, so they don't even count.

that just leaves vanguards and knights, and they're pretty much the same speed.


since your reply sounded as though you didn't fully read my post, i'll just re-quote...

Originally posted by Ɣ | MuffCabbage:

Also the running isn't a bait,

Originally posted by Solar:

it can be a bait tactic in disguise.

running can also be used as you described. but chasing risks falling for bait.

[GAY FISH]

Originally posted by Solar:

well you can't compare movement speed with maa because of instant-dodge. that will typically disorient most opponents and let you exit combat pretty safely and reliably. the fact they move faster just means they can break reach easier without costing stamina. they can also more easily dodge in close-combat as well.

archers are gimp, we should all know that by now, so they don't even count.

that just leaves vanguards and knights, and they're pretty much the same speed.


since your reply sounded as though you didn't fully read my post, i'll just re-quote...

Originally posted by Ɣ | MuffCabbage:

Also the running isn't a bait,

Originally posted by Solar:

it can be a bait tactic in disguise.

running can also be used as you described. but chasing risks falling for bait.

Dodge isn't movement, it's an ability, just like leap. VG leap is cray cray fast, doesn't mean VG is. So you either have two choices chase them and risk it or let them reset. If you chase them and miss, which is pretty easy to do with a 12in weapon, you risk yourself getting hit and even if you don't you still lost stam. If you let them run they just reset and your advantage is gone. Either way isn't good. If movement speeds were different though then you could reasonably punish this tactic.
MAA has dodge to get out of mistakes but that has its own drawbacks (stam and next to no armor), running five feet away everytime you make a mistake doesn't have a drawback.

You also didn't seem to read my post thoroughly, since movement speed between classes is so minisculely different every class has just about the same reach while running. If the speeds were obviously different your point would be right, but sadly speeds are basically the same. Add the much longer weapons of other classes and then VG and knight easily beat maa or archer in that department.

Also swinging while sprinting causing more stam would end the ridiculous sprint around and swing wildly with a GS/Zwei tactic for vg.

[The Faceless Man]

dodge is movement triggered by an ability. what you're describing is not a problem for maa's at all. the stam drain is irrelevant since dodging doesn't add any delay to stamina recovery (other than during the dodge itself). if they try to force you to dodge away all your stamina, then you've passed up too many openings.

maa does not need more movement speed. i've played a ♥♥♥♥-ton of maa (my main class) and i can natural dodge without instant-dodge and do it often. also at the disposal of maa are circle-dodges and side-dodges, which when used appropriately can easily throw off your opponent or give you more time to re-parry.

with greater differences in speed than this, what you would witness is more running away and either baiting or what you call "resetting". that's a bad idea because we'd have less intense close-combat fights. the "flee to reset" strategy is not something veteran maa's use a lot anyway.

the wild swinging is a noob strategy too. it doesn't need to be fixed because players who do that are so easy to kill.

[GAY FISH]

Originally posted by Solar:

dodge is movement triggered by an ability. what you're describing is not a problem for maa's at all. the stam drain is irrelevant since dodging doesn't add any delay to stamina recovery (other than during the dodge itself). if they try to force you to dodge away all your stamina, then you've passed up too many openings.

maa does not need more movement speed. i've played a ♥♥♥♥-ton of maa (my main class) and i can natural dodge without instant-dodge and do it often. also at the disposal of maa are circle-dodges and side-dodges, which when used appropriately can easily throw off your opponent or give you more time to re-parry.

with greater differences in speed than this, what you would witness is more running away and either baiting or what you call "resetting". that's a bad idea because we'd have less intense close-combat fights. the "flee to reset" strategy is not something veteran maa's use a lot anyway.

the wild swinging is a noob strategy too. it doesn't need to be fixed because players who do that are so easy to kill.

I don't want maa faster, I want speeds to be accurately represented, according to the stats maa is supposed to be 33% faster then VG and 66% faster then knight. Obviously not the case. If speed isn't accurately represented why the hell should armor be?
No decent maa uses the run tactic because it only works with a long weapon and the chase mechanic would stop constant running of an maa. That's why only knights and VG do it. If knights weren't able to sprint away so fast and VGs didn't have the ability to go ham with swings while sprinting around we'd have a metric ♥♥♥♥ ton of more intense close fights. Dodging the swings isn't the problem, it's getting hit after a knight somehow out runs me the second I swing. Also If the person swinging wildly isn't bad they can easily make it work. Why do you think many vets do it?

I've been playing this game for a very long time as MAA and Vg so I've been on both ends of the stick and it usually ends the same way. MAA misses by just inches because I got out ran or out ran them and then just hit em on recovery. If they dodge out of recovery they still have less stam then me even if I missed 4-5 strikes in a row, putting them on the disadvantage. Also it's not uncommon for you to clearly side/angled dodge a swing and still get hit because of phantom tracers.

Also this is with team based modes in mind not 1v1 if you had that impression. MAA nearly always wins 1v1.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Either don't chase after them or make damn sure you are close enough to get them with the help of the chase mechanic.

[GAY FISH]

Originally posted by =(e)= Lemonater47:

Either don't chase after them or make damn sure you are close enough to get them with the help of the chase mechanic.

This shouldn't have to be a problem to begin with and in the middle of a 5v5 you may just not have the time to make sure you are 100% in range. They "balanced" archers, why the not balance this?

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

They balanced archers by making the warbow useless and doubling crossbow usage.

They actually balanced this by increasing the chase bonus by 10%.

Your footwork just has to outplay their largely predictable footwork.

[GAY FISH]

Originally posted by =(e)= Lemonater47:

They balanced archers by making the warbow useless and doubling crossbow usage.

They actually balanced this by increasing the chase bonus by 10%.

Your footwork just has to outplay their largely predictable footwork.

I don't see how that balances anything really, I mainly wanna know why the speeds are so ridiculously close to one another. The stats clearly show that there should be a noticable speed difference.
Maybe it's just me and my outrageously bad computer but I feel like either choice I make is a lose lose when dealing with these guys.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

There is a large speed gap though.