learning to counter-attack

[The Faceless Man]

probably the hardest thing for new players is counter-attacking. there's several ways to accomplish this:

• ripostes
  
• evading
  
• baiting

riposte - you can make an attack off of your parry (skips grunt noise). target will usually get in close to make a close-range thrust (blockable). best way to get good at ripostes is to get better at parrying. don't make the mistake of abusing ripostes all the time, however. man-at-arms is agile enough to avoid most ripostes and will evade-counter you really bad. ripostes are also harder to aim for some people, so you can try an evade counter or riposte back. if you're nervous, jump parry will get you clear pretty quickly.

evading - you can lean forward and backward by looking down and up (respectively). turning left or right will also shift your center of mass in the opposite direction (turning right moves your body more to the left, and turning left moves your body more to the right). usually good posture is keeping one of your sides forward towards your opponent (right for offensive, left for defensive). you have two choices when making an evasion attempt: attack or parry for insurance. starting your windup too late will leave you vulnerable to a combo, too early might cause you to take damage and flinch, so just practice timing. favor leaning back if you want to block, and leaning forward if you plan to crouch or escape.

baiting - this involves maintaining movement in a specific direction to lead your opponent into your attack. there's two ways to bait-counter: either stop in your tracks (expect an attack) and riposte, or suddenly reverse direction and impale your opponent directly. this is very risky. if your opponent is running towards you recklessly, it's pretty easy to pull off. your stab is your fastest attack so it will usually hit before they get their defenses up. man-at-arms can quick-bait by dodging backward then delivering a forward stab. if your opponent is maintaining an optimal distance, they are ready for you. expect feints, because you're essentially just turtling and opponent will be looking to make you panic.


also keep in mind, for all of the above, you will need to improve your reaction time and sadly there's no trick that. it just comes with lots and lots of practice. :)


feel free to share your thoughts on the above. :)

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Nope that's not how ripostes work lol.

Timings are all exactly the same. Only difference is it starts the instant the parry connects. Rather than waiting for the parry to finish then initiating the attack after.

Still has the same windup and everything. Minimum windup in the game is still 0.4 seconds. Not 0.2.

Baiting in that way is just pub stomp tactics. Its easy to bait those sorts of baiters. By simply not moving or moving with him just out of range and watch him swing at nothing then move in and attack while he's in recovery because none of them know what CFtP is.

[The Faceless Man]

Originally posted by =(e)= Lemonater47:

Timings are all exactly the same. Only difference is it starts the instant the parry connects. Rather than waiting for the parry to finish then initiating the attack after.

thanks. updated. :)

Originally posted by =(e)= Lemonater47:

Baiting in that way is just pub stomp tactics. Its easy to bait those sorts of baiters. By simply not moving or moving with him just out of range and watch him swing at nothing then move in and attack while he's in recovery because none of them know what CFtP is.

that's exactly what i just said tho: if your opponent is maintaining optimal distance, they're ready for an impale attack. you can still bait defensively, though. if you lean back, they can miss, giving you a slight endurance lead and an opening.

i disagree with it being a "pub stomp tactic". still works even against skilled opponents. it's just riskier.

maybe "baiting" is the wrong word to use. if you can think of a better name for it, i'll consider changing it.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Considering the way to beat that tactic is to literally not push any of the buttons it wouldn't even need to take a skilled player to not fall for it.

[The Faceless Man]

Originally posted by =(e)= Lemonater47:

Considering the way to beat that tactic is to literally not push any of the buttons it wouldn't even need to take a skilled player to not fall for it.

yyyyaah... you're not a good source of advice, sorry.

the same argument can be applied to ripostes and evading. it's like saying "dum... shields r so easy to counter... cuz u can just feint kick them... ... ...". it doesn't take a skilled player to know one strategy does not work for everything.

every strategy can be used interchangeably. switching it up fast and fluidly, you can turn baiting into a powerful tactic against anyone. if you are as good as you think you are, you'd know exactly what i'm talking about.

[Adinbei]

Shh, let the New Zealander use his magic.

[The Faceless Man]

if it wasn't for the distance lag, i'd demonstrate to lemonater47 that i can beat him using only those 3 tactics mentioned above.

how do i know this? because this game has stolen so much of my life away, i hardly ever initiate attacking people anymore. -_- defensive fighting is all i know now.

i don't even exploit stunned or winded opponents anymore. it's more fun to spar.

(except for maa. man-at-arms counters all of these with insta-dodge. -_- )

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Well you pretty much explained one tactic. The slightly riskier variant is what all rank 30s do. The only thing they do. That everyone knows. A tactic that completely relies on your opponent being drawn into it. Its just a waste of stamina otherwise.

[¿Albatrossing?]

I love when I do nothing and my opponent panic parries so I can overhead them with ease.

It's also disappointing when I also fall for the same trick.

[The Faceless Man]

sometimes you don't even need to attack. you can't get locked into following your opponent's sequence. you have to be unpredictable.

[Adinbei]

I find being unpredictable only useful against rank 50+ and the occasional rank 40 that duel all the time, most people you are fighting don't understand what is killing them, and it will take more than one death to figure it out. Now if you are fighting an experienced player, be as unpredictable as possible.

[Lu2]

Originally posted by Albatrossing:

I love when I do nothing and my opponent panic parries so I can overhead them with ease.

It's also disappointing when I also fall for the same trick.

lol .it happends

[The Faceless Man]

i don't try to kill so much anymore. i've cut loose once or twice, but the fights are too short, there's no satisfaction of battle, and it causes me to be too reckless.

i'm not claiming to be good. i just do a lot of defensive fighting. learning not to die sounds like a better way to play the game than hunting for kills. or at least that's more enjoyable for me.

[acidboi]

Originally posted by Solar:

i don't try to kill so much anymore. i've cut loose once or twice, but the fights are too short, there's no satisfaction of battle, and it causes me to be too reckless.

i'm not claiming to be good. i just do a lot of defensive fighting. learning not to die sounds like a better way to play the game than hunting for kills. or at least that's more enjoyable for me.

hunt for kills but keep throwing up the challenge, go yolo and try to stay alive as long as you can is the best way to learn. with yolo i mean camp thier spawn, wait up 5 oponents at hillside treb 1, rusing in at the final stage of belmez when you are the king and try to kill thier king without retreating, things like that.

[The Faceless Man]

it's harder in team games, especially if you're the king or aiding the king. you have to trust your teammates to hold their own while you keep their back covered. there's other things, like holding a doorway, switching opponents, swapping out injured, guarding swings from a direction, etc., the strategies i listed in my OP are only good for self-defense, which helps if you're alone.