Added dev/Publisher to Ignore list, due to Epic Exclusive

[Ungwe Lianti]

Together with all games and devs on this List [docs.google.com]

I personally have made this choice simply because I've been directly affected by this not 1, not 2, not 3 but 6 times on Crowdfunded games being snatched in the last minute to go to a store front I can not support, nor would want to support.

I know for some (seem to be a minority when the facts are presented to people) It's not a problem to split up their library in different stores, but for a collector like me who found the convenience of collecting in digital form rather then physical (which I did a lot back in the days)
It's just simply not acceptable when it comes to crowdfunded games. Simply for the reason that I would not fund a game if I did not know that I would be getting the game on release (or before) on Steam where I have my collection of games.

Others have different reasons, while I agree on most of them I'm not entirely sold on the idea of Epic being a secret spy from China. Although I'm aware of many security flaws, also some kind of privacy "scanning your harddrive" hidden/shady stuff going on with the launcher.
I do indeed agree with the lack of features, and the possibility to let anyone say whatever they want about a game OR developer no matter what they say. I simply don't like Epic for a multitude of different reasons, but my main reason which weigh the most is the Library issue.

Epic's practices which feels like they're basically taking us back 10 years in digital gaming evolution when it comes to freedom of choice (where/how/when) To buy/play/launch your games. And the fact that they're doubling down on these things rather then trying to listen to the community, I simply
have lost all faith of the very little I already had in Epic, and greedy developers/publishers that sell out to them are just as bad in my pov. Not only do these Developers & Publishers [docs.google.com] sell out, no most of them are using
Steam's long and hard earned fame/customer base to advertise their games, only to just take it off the shelves before launch. Still keeping their Steam page, and sometimes with links out of Steam to purchase the game externally.

So, I am therefore totally ignoring and never again going to give any of my $$$ to any of these Developers or Publishers now or in the future, And I know there are more out there who don't like this, and want nothing to do with it. So I'm helping them to be aware of what devs and publishers that are helping Epic with their disgusting practices.


You can find the list Here [docs.google.com]

Original post by the creator of the list @reddit[redd.it]

[Random]

TBS haven't broken any promises and never had any pre-sales, etc. The Epic deal allowed a small team of around 20 people to make a game we have all been waiting for.

Valve, however, stopped making games because they made so much money from charging 30% from the devs who were effectively forced to sell on their platform because they have a near-monopoly. Valve, by employee, is the most profitable company on America.

Enough small developers have already gone bust. I'm not sure why you help crush more small teams who are making games we don't get from big studios in favour of a multi-billion dollar corporation like Valve.

The indie devs will make most of their money when their game first goes on sale so it's very hard to spend 3/4 years making a new game if they don't have enough financial security. This deal also allowed them to attract new devs with AAA experience which will help make Chivalry 2 a better game.

[Ungwe Lianti]

Originally posted by Random:

TBS haven't broken any promises and never had any pre-sales, etc. The Epic deal allowed a small team of around 20 people to make a game we have all been waiting for.

You are free to your opinion, as am I. Not here to argue with other customers, I'm showing my disgust towards Epic's business practices and they who join their cause are therefore helping to normalize these methods.

If Epic is so great and the savior for game devs (small and big) Then why do they have to force exclusivity for things they haven't even created themselves? Their store should sell by itself, lower fee's could instead lead to lower prices and a whole lot of other things to attract customers to go there.

There's only one thing these practices lead to, and it's customers such as myself turning their backs on those games/devs/publishers. It most certainly won't attract MORE customers, because that just doesn't make any sense.

With that said, I'm one of those who am confident that these very temporary cashgrabs will have a very limited positive short term effect.

The console war is annoying enough, but here we're talking Exclusivity on a specific platform/console which is a whole different thing.

Simple really,

[Random]

Originally posted by Ungwe Lianti:

Originally posted by Random:

TBS haven't broken any promises and never had any pre-sales, etc. The Epic deal allowed a small team of around 20 people to make a game we have all been waiting for.

You are free to your opinion, as am I. Not here to argue with other customers, I'm showing my disgust towards Epic's business practices and they who join their cause are therefore helping to normalize these methods.

So you're happy if stores have exclusive content as long as they created it themselves? That's fine for huge corporations who have the money to make their own store, but small indie teams deserve a chance to earn more money from their own game than the store which is selling it.

I was very annoyed about Valve forcing me to install Steam when I bought Half-life 2. It didn't matter if they made the game or not. Now they have a monopoly which is never the best solution for consumers and getting consumers onto a new platform isn't going to happen without some really good incentives.

The exclusive deal is limited to one year and after that there will be cross-play so it's not as bad as the console situation either.

[Gillez82]

i mean no offence but shuting down on them for that reason... is weak, for about 50 - 200 mb , youl have epic on your system and play it right away or wait a year for it to be open game licence so other platforms gets it as well. boycott something becose its dlc is more costly then the base game, now that something legit or they stole from you after you bought something in-game but never delivered / unlocked it, these are somethings to complain about not "they betrayed us". chiv never pledged to be solely here on steam, back then it was either steam , some other shady game platforms or make your own (wich is more trouble then it looks like)

[Strakog]

I dislike Epic's practices and exclusivity in general, so I just don't buy games on Epic. All the games in my Epic library were games I got for free. I prefer to wait until the "exclusive" games are released in other platforms or just pirate if I just can't be bothered. Blacklisting a whole company forever just for taking some easy money seems silly to me. If enough people just don't buy their games when they first come out and just wait until there are released massively, companies will notice

[Random]

Originally posted by Search "kalergi plan" on google:

epic is funded by communist pieces of ♥♥♥♥ and their launcher steals data, definitely something not unheard of by the commies.

This is pretty paranoid. If you truly believe that, then remember that all your internet traffic is going through equipment made by Huawei which is apparently strongly linked with the Chinese government. You should stop using the internet entirely although they must already have your data (a lot more than Epic store will be able to access).

Also stop using games on UE4 as that is made by Epic. A paranoid person should realise that their code is running on your machine already if any game uses the Unreal Engine.

Also stop using any phone equipment for similar reasons... a lot of stuff made in China.

Finally, the Chinese government don't care about your data - they're more interested in their own people. If you're this paranoid, be more worried about your own government who can already track everything through your ISP and powerful AI programs searching through your emails, etc.

...... Epic store is just another launcher. All the paranoid arguments I hear against them are never consistently followed through in other areas of life by the people who make them. It's like listening to one of those vegetarians who say they also eat chicken and fish.

(I've tried asking for proof about them stealing data from a reputable third party security researcher but people normally just throw insults or point to a reddit thread with no actual proof at that point.)

[Gillez82]

this is getting out of hand... ok to make it clear, even steam "steals" data from you as well so it can propose you games BASED on what you bought , wishlisted , pre-ordered so take a chill pill

secondly, i see all this hate about other game platforms but no reasons or explenations of why, this is getting worst then kinder garden

thirdly , yes you are intitled to your choice and opinion regarding everthing but consider this on why chiv2 went epic. steam takes a 30% cut + initial fees + extra per month if you want servers to to go with your game. it stands to believe epic offered a better deal considering torn banner isnt doing to well on cash right now becose the only community left is the elitest players and barely 5% of the new players keep playing after the first week wich mean they have to refund 95% of there sells.

[Ungwe Lianti]

Originally posted by Gillez82:

this is getting out of hand... ok to make it clear, even steam "steals" data from you as well so it can propose you games BASED on what you bought , wishlisted , pre-ordered so take a chill pill

secondly, i see all this hate about other game platforms but no reasons or explenations of why, this is getting worst then kinder garden

thirdly , yes you are intitled to your choice and opinion regarding everthing but consider this on why chiv2 went epic. steam takes a 30% cut + initial fees + extra per month if you want servers to to go with your game. it stands to believe epic offered a better deal considering torn banner isnt doing to well on cash right now becose the only community left is the elitest players and barely 5% of the new players keep playing after the first week wich mean they have to refund 95% of there sells.

Very true with the fee's, although as someone who've been selling a lot of keys for games. I've seen a distinct difference in actual sales (outside of any given game store) Like on Ebay, G2a and similar sites.

A quick check cpl months ago on Ebay (SOLD ITEMS) gave me a result of ~6-7000 Steam keys being sold within the last 3 months time, all of them are Actual games or DLC's

while during that same time period there were ~6-8 sold items for Epic store activation, all of them were Fortnite cosmetics.

That's just one place of course, and it's hard to see any statistics about this anywhere if you're not the one controlling these sites. But Ebay it's easy since you can search for "Steam key" and other similar searches, click Sold items and see all that's been sold.

Steam doesn't charge anything what so ever on keys given away for free/sold outside of Steam but activated on Steam, only purchases directly on Steam are being charged.

So using Steam as an advertisement while pushing out keys 3rd part should indeed give more profit then selling a game exclusive on Epic.

now though, these game developers/publishers are instead abusing Steam with having their games listed here to sell it outside of Steam who's not getting a single dime. This is something almost every single developer/publisher on this list are doing. They are therefore just as fishy and using bad business practices as Epic imo.

Either remove your ♥♥♥♥ on Steam completely and stick to Epic for the time it's going to be EXCLUSIVE, or you release it on Steam as well. I'm personally confused to why Steam allows this in the first place.

Shenmue III is a perfect example on how messed up this is. Their page have been up for a long time, and since the Epic crap was announced, they made an update post on the Game's page here on Steam with URL to an external site where you can pre-purchase the game on different stores including Epic.

Very bad leeching on Steam's customer base/fame while claiming them to be so bad for charging 30%. Maybe there's a reason they charge 30%? Because you'll still sell a ♥♥♥♥ loads more copies.

[Gillez82]

hmm you do have a point.. i still think steam should hit the negotiation table again and come up with a better deal, say take 25% instead of 30% and dont need to pay the fees to add the game to steam since there already using the platform kind of deal, they still will make a decent amount from the sells and keep a game company here instead of just not getting a dime at all.. better make a bit less profit then none at all right? but then again its all about monthly profit so i dont think its going to go that way , all we can do is sit and wait on the outcome of this

[Ungwe Lianti]

Originally posted by Gillez82:

hmm you do have a point.. i still think steam should hit the negotiation table again and come up with a better deal, say take 25% instead of 30% and dont need to pay the fees to add the game to steam since there already using the platform kind of deal, they still will make a decent amount from the sells and keep a game company here instead of just not getting a dime at all.. better make a bit less profit then none at all right? but then again its all about monthly profit so i dont think its going to go that way , all we can do is sit and wait on the outcome of this

The fee to post a game is $100 I read somewhere, and they implemented this because of one reason which actually makes sense. To remedy the problem with Spam games, you know those type of games mass uploaded by spammers to hope to sell them for very cheap prices and earn loads of dollars for something that couldn't be considered as anything else then spam in the gaming world.

100usd isn't really that much money to post ANY game anyone create. Epic on the other hand needs to be approved and as I've understood it, they don't take small indie games nowhere near as generously as Steam does nor does any other game store.

So while I do agree with you on the posting fee somewhat, I think their reasoning behind it kind of makes sense. Steam had a lot of problems with too many of these extremely low budget non completed props called "Games" coming out in 100s or even 1000s by just a few "developers" With cards and stuff to cash out on Card collectors (Steam trading cards)

At the end of the day, $100 isn't really THAT much.

You also need to consider everything Steam gives you for 30% One very special thing with Steam is their (forgot the name for it) But a developer barely needs to make games for Linux anymore, as Steam have worked hard to make a quite functional and practicly seamless faultfree plugin in the Client. All you need to do as a Linux user is go to properties and activate the linux plugin pretty much. And almost every game works like a charm, with some exceptions.

You also have the workshop which not only is stored and used a lot of bandwidth for Steam (cost money) You can even earn money as a customer which is boosting the gaming community a lot for any game offering the possibility to use Workshop which will in the end give the developer for that game more revenue. As they will sell more games for a longer time when the game is kept alive through the community.

You have so many other features and goodies that are so well made and in fact, incredibly convenient for any hardcore gamer. You can't blame the age of Steam vs Epic, Epic has too much money, and it's not really that hard to even come out day 1 with the most featurepacked client in the world if you just wanted to do so.

Also the userbase is astronomical in comparison, I'd be guessing that 95% of Epic's users are mainly using the client for Fortnite and nothing else. They still buy their games on Steam,

Also, the methods Epic are using feel so outdated, something the gaming community have been fighting 20 years ago and almost won, at least to the point where it became "ok" with choice and such. So it's somewhat counterproductive methods.

If they were decent people behind Epic and the publishers selling their souls to the devil, then it would've been enough to produce a great client full of features and lower prices for the games as there would be room for that with the lower cut they take.

Then at least it would be fair game, and customers would have a choice, pay more but stick to Steam or pay less and migrate to Epic.

To me, my personal opinion about Epic, they've been doubling down on this bs so much already and the CEO is behaving like some moronic "blame everyone else for what I'm the cause for" 6 year old spoiled kid. I've lost any and all trust in that company, and that's why I can't support any developer or Publisher going their way anymore.

But that's how I see it,

[Random]

Originally posted by Ungwe Lianti:

I personally have made this choice simply because I've been directly affected by this not 1, not 2, not 3 but 6 times on Crowdfunded games being snatched in the last minute to go to a store front I can not support, nor would want to support.

You've definitely modified your original post quite a lot. I'm sure you said you didn't want any discussion in the original version.

Once again, TBS didn't make any promises to use Steam or have any crowdfunding, etc. If you have a problem with the behaviour of those other devs, go and speak to them.

Steam is a multi-billion dollar affair with a stranglehold on the market and they don't need your defence. If you have a problem with Epic, go and argue with Epic instead of trying to destroy small indie studios who are the only people making innovative games like Chivalry.

When TBS's last game, Mirage, launched on Steam, Valve completely screwed up their side of things and no-one could play the game when it came out. All the initial supporters were very angry and TBS couldn't do anything. Steam didn't give much support advertising the game as time went by either. Those were important factors in the failure of Mirage, but you want the tiny studio to be forced back onto Steam for their next game even though they don't have the money to fund it properly after Mirage failed.

With the money from Epic, we can now have the best version of Chivalry 2 possible.

You talk about exclusivity being a terrible thing, but that's exactly how Steam started and indie studios were effectively forced onto Steam before Epic started pushing their own alternative.

Even if Epic does stuff which you don't like and the guy in charge has an abrasive personality, they're supporting small studios who would be closing without their funding.

As time goes by and Epic add features to their system, we might actually have an alternative to Steam and competition is far, far better for any market than a monopoly.

Finally, if someone doesn't like the Epic store payment process, you can buy the exclusive games on Humble Bundle instead.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

If I started buying games based on how "good" I thought a company was.

I wouldn't be buying games.

I only got steam because I was forced to get steam. I wanted a game that required steam to run. A game with zero relation to Valve. Yet here we are. Since then I've had to get a bunch of other launchers to play games as well. So what's another one to me?

Why make this thread exactly? Or I should say "these" threads. You've made a few across various game discussion boards, all saying the same thing. I don't think you're some big chivalry player. Would be surprised if you got double digits. I would check but you own so many games that my phones web browser freezes each time I try to view them.

I don't think you're making these threads out of any great concern for the games you made the topics for. As you say. You're a game collector. Got it written all over your profile. Would be a great shame if you got games elsewhere. They wouldn't count towards your overall score as it were.

But speculation about your intentions aside. 10 years ago I gave steam a chance. I'd be a damn hypocrite if I didn't give Epic the same chance.

[Ouroboros]

You think steam didnt give indie games a chance? Steam created the Indie devs! without steam where would the indies be? where was all the indie games before steam? Indie games dont got their games into stores in the days back and even if they got them in the stores no one would buy games from unkown publisher. Back in the days there where only big companies and no "Early Acess" without steam indie and little dev teams wouldnt exist.
Actually the stupid indie dev are the problem from steam, because they add all the trash to steam no one want to play, so steam get too many trashy indie games.
Thats why so many new dev teams want to go to epic, because there are less indie games, the store isnt so full with this trash, so their own game get more attention

[Ungwe Lianti]

Originally posted by Ouroboros:

You think steam didnt give indie games a chance? Steam created the Indie devs! without steam where would the indies be? where was all the indie games before steam? Indie games dont got their games into stores in the days back and even if they got them in the stores no one would buy games from unkown publisher. Back in the days there where only big companies and no "Early Acess" without steam indie and little dev teams wouldnt exist.
Actually the stupid indie dev are the problem from steam, because they add all the trash to steam no one want to play, so steam get too many trashy indie games.
Thats why so many new dev teams want to go to epic, because there are less indie games, the store isnt so full with this trash, so their own game get more attention

Word on that, but not so sure they actually getting more attention on Epic though.
Guess they might get more attention but doubt they getting more sales, but with the Epic$$$ maybe they earn more in the end. Just have a feeling not a lot of people will actually play those games over there, except the ones that are forced to play there after backing something on crowdfunder sites with ninja-storechange.

Now I'm not one of those, I mean I'm one of those who won't play it through Epic, no matter how much I backed a game for. I'll be getting refund (if possible) or sell the game and hoping to get my money back that way.

Anyways, could be wrong.

[Behi]

Originally posted by Random:

TBS haven't broken any promises and never had any pre-sales, etc. The Epic deal allowed a small team of around 20 people to make a game we have all been waiting for.

Valve, however, stopped making games because they made so much money from charging 30% from the devs who were effectively forced to sell on their platform because they have a near-monopoly. Valve, by employee, is the most profitable company on America.

Enough small developers have already gone bust. I'm not sure why you help crush more small teams who are making games we don't get from big studios in favour of a multi-billion dollar corporation like Valve.

The indie devs will make most of their money when their game first goes on sale so it's very hard to spend 3/4 years making a new game if they don't have enough financial security. This deal also allowed them to attract new devs with AAA experience which will help make Chivalry 2 a better game.

Good for Valve for making all that money, if a small developer cant make their own living its because they couldnt make a game that will appeal to people so if they fail its on them not on Valve.