Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

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Rizilliant Dec 14, 2024 @ 8:12am
Perils of the Warp making Idira useless
I understand when you have a thin veil, but when you have NONE, or barely any, and Idira instantly kills herself, then whats the point of EVER using her?! Shes been nothing but a hinderance in every single combat Ive brought her along! If she cant even use her abilities when the veil degredation is non existent, I am having a hard time bringing her, even for the dialog...

Someone help me understand, and justify her existence please

Edit: Perils of the Warp hit her for 55dmg, but then ALSO Perils of the Warp hit her for 77 Direct Damage, in the same hit?
Last edited by Rizilliant; Dec 14, 2024 @ 8:13am
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Showing 76-90 of 94 comments
spammdc Dec 30, 2024 @ 4:32pm 
Originally posted by Rizilliant:
Originally posted by Nordos/atord:
There isn't really a way to 'fill the same role', due to a few points:
- mercs can only get unsanctioned with Ecemplar. And there your skill points become very limited
- mercs can't get higher than the first stage of Heretical.
- if you pick a sanctioned psyker and take Sanctis ... you can just as well take Heinrix.

Generally, though, you can easily splash into other schools with Idira. DOn't keep yourself limited to the two she starts with (though I personally prefer pyromancy over Sanctis)
Her role isnt anything special.. Her character is special because of the story related elements. But her role as buffer/debuffer/CC/Dmg is easily replaced with a merc. I dont really see the benefit to the unsanctioned psyker, over a regular psyker.. Its more hinderance than benefit, imo.. An as far as the buff from her tier 2 heretical, its not much of a loss.

I have played through the game 6 times so I am more looking for stability in the NPC but as I have said before her backstory adds a lot to the game's flavor.
I have had times where her ability seems to trigger at the start of every combat (4 times in a row) so now I use her abilities sparingly. I would prefer to use a NPC where I can use the abilities without issues.
Nordos/atord Dec 31, 2024 @ 2:09am 
Originally posted by spammdc:
Originally posted by Rizilliant:
Her role isnt anything special.. Her character is special because of the story related elements. But her role as buffer/debuffer/CC/Dmg is easily replaced with a merc. I dont really see the benefit to the unsanctioned psyker, over a regular psyker.. Its more hinderance than benefit, imo.. An as far as the buff from her tier 2 heretical, its not much of a loss.

I have played through the game 6 times so I am more looking for stability in the NPC but as I have said before her backstory adds a lot to the game's flavor.
I have had times where her ability seems to trigger at the start of every combat (4 times in a row) so now I use her abilities sparingly. I would prefer to use a NPC where I can use the abilities without issues.
Sure, but that isn't the 'same role'. Well, maybe it is a bit ill-defined, but let me try to give examples:

- early debuffer/buffer: Idira has a small advantage by starting with two good schools with it. In the end, though, you can easily replace her with a merc if you only want this.

- late-game debuffer/buffer: Idira has an advantage due to the gloves only an unsanctioned psyker can wear. You can replace it with the Breastplate (though needing strenght and a skill to wear it in return, due to being heavy). Idira will scale better, but a Merc will be able to still be decent

- early damage dealer: Idira puts out a bit more damage, but has .... not the best starting skills for it. I generally think that a pyromancer merc is actually more effective early game

- mid-game damage dealer: Idira finds her gloves in act 2. She finds the Hood in act 2. These two items can't be worn by the Merc, but increase her potential tremendously.
She becomes a bit more risky to pülay, but the damage spike is enormous. Think of her damage basically becoming 3 times of that of the merc. It has a rather slow buildup, though - but you can circumvent this by using an officer to giver her extra turns and, ideally, finest hour

- end-game dd: You get the gem that gives her additional attacks based on her psy rating. At this point, you can have a turn that goes like this:
1) Cassia, the Strategist, uses 'Bring it Down!' on Idira. Idira has 2 action points. She casts ignite and takes damage. She casts Ignite, gets two extra points. This repeats 0-2 times more. She now has between 5-9 psy rating (yes. I knbow, very RNG). Cassia reaches her Ultimate and uses FInest Hour, with the upgrade that the character can't fall under 1 HP, on Idira. Idira just begins to Ignite all over the place. Everything she sees, everything she can reaches gets and increasingly potent ignite into their face. And once she ends with no one visible? Well, maybe there is a barrel she can target and destroy - thanks to Pain Channeling, the whole damage -4 (due to the health of the barrel) will damage an enemy. Well, getting 200-400 damage due to that often is enough to kill any smaller enemy.


Conclusion: You want a merc to replace her? As long as you don't use Idira as a damage dealer, it is generallly doable. Mercs have advanatges (being an Operative) and disadvantages (not starting with two schools), etc. That said, you want t use her as a Damage Dealer? Yeah, no, there is no one that can fill that spot until act 5 with a crappy item and a merc that has way less time to put into passives and skills.
Rizilliant Dec 31, 2024 @ 6:09am 
Originally posted by Revan619:
Originally posted by Rizilliant:
I asked how big an impact this extra PR makes? Theres really not that great a difference between her and a sanctioned psyker.. And extra PR is just minor power creep.. Her main feature is the perils of the warp, yes? Its the worst part of her.. So, a merc, copying her build, wont need to waste gear slots, or level ups, on keeping her from imploding. WOuld then, that not make a merc built to fill the same role? I would argue yes..

So Again I ask.. how big is this difference? How impactful is an extra psy rating? A little more damage, or slightly stronger buff?

Normal Psykers can get to 4 psy rating. All their buffs and damage are linked to this. Ive had Idira at over 120 psy rating.

Originally posted by MacabreLion:

Can you have dual psyker powers from the start of the game with a merc?

Nope. Idira starts with telepath and diviner making her amazing for buffing which mercs can only start with 1.
She starts with 2, but still only can level up with the same amount of skill points. Shes not choosing skills for both types per level up. And shes not going to have access to this late stage loot for quite some time, meaning shes spending two long acts without it. 120 PR is nuts though, Ill absolutely concede.. Not at all what I was expecting. That does indeed sound like a massive impact, and not at all minor. But its still just a number increase, when you boils it down. My lvl 40 Heinrix has 6 out of combat. 120 is insane

However, her 'role' as damage dealer, or buffer, or debuffer, is still easily replaced. Just a weaker variant.. You cant indefinitely cast warp abilities, anyway.. unless theres something Ive not yet encountered that blocks/replaces all veil degredation. Some of my abilities do repair veil, but not enough to spam spells.

It sounds like the argument is just that her numbers are bigger? Thats not what a "role" is.. She just does more damage in her role as damager. Thats a min/max argument, not a role. Power Creep.
Last edited by Rizilliant; Dec 31, 2024 @ 6:11am
anaris Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:03am 
Originally posted by Magni:
Originally posted by Hex:

That's a straight up lie, or you're using mods. Since she gets nothing from eyes of Jeyous, there isn't enough +pr in the game, not even close.
She gets an exclusive set of gloves that give her +1PR every single time she causes phenomena or perils. And you can theoretically skill her into heavy armor and give ehr the psykers breastplate, if you want to make that +2PR for each perils.

Using Bounty Hunter Idira and spamming her buffs via Savour the Kill, mid-late game Idira can regularily reach psy rating 15+ by turn 2-3 even without any actual effort to minmax things.
what fights are you having that last til turn 3
Nordos/atord Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:10am 
Originally posted by Rizilliant:
However, her 'role' as damage dealer, or buffer, or debuffer, is still easily replaced. Just a weaker variant.. You cant indefinitely cast warp abilities, anyway.. unless theres something Ive not yet encountered that blocks/replaces all veil degredation. Some of my abilities do repair veil, but not enough to spam spells.
Well, yeah, but at the same time - why do you care for veil degration at that point? Nothing, bar the knockout, is actually anything dangerous after a3, and instead becomes an upside with the right equipment. If anything, you _want_ more degration to increase the chance to getting psycich phenomena.

Originally posted by Rizilliant:
It sounds like the argument is just that her numbers are bigger? Thats not what a "role" is.. She just does more damage in her role as damager. Thats a min/max argument, not a role. Power Creep.
Fair enough. Yes, a Merc can fundamentally fill the same role, but arguably one of them far, far worse. At this point, the question becomes - why use the merc for that role, if Idira just supercedes? That said, you can also just not take a Psyker with you, and still beat the game - it is useful to have one, for various reasons, but not necessary.

PS: Regarding the 'two schools' argument - it means she starts with an additional active skill point. Active skill points are pretty scarce, so each one that you don't need to spend are actually quite important. It also means you have from the get-go, a higher selection of passives to skill (which kinda negates the downside of her being an Operative, since you can simply ignore that class and focus on psyker abilities)
Rizilliant Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:53am 
Originally posted by Nordos/atord:
Originally posted by Rizilliant:
However, her 'role' as damage dealer, or buffer, or debuffer, is still easily replaced. Just a weaker variant.. You cant indefinitely cast warp abilities, anyway.. unless theres something Ive not yet encountered that blocks/replaces all veil degredation. Some of my abilities do repair veil, but not enough to spam spells.
Well, yeah, but at the same time - why do you care for veil degration at that point? Nothing, bar the knockout, is actually anything dangerous after a3, and instead becomes an upside with the right equipment. If anything, you _want_ more degration to increase the chance to getting psycich phenomena.

Originally posted by Rizilliant:
It sounds like the argument is just that her numbers are bigger? Thats not what a "role" is.. She just does more damage in her role as damager. Thats a min/max argument, not a role. Power Creep.
Fair enough. Yes, a Merc can fundamentally fill the same role, but arguably one of them far, far worse. At this point, the question becomes - why use the merc for that role, if Idira just supercedes? That said, you can also just not take a Psyker with you, and still beat the game - it is useful to have one, for various reasons, but not necessary.

PS: Regarding the 'two schools' argument - it means she starts with an additional active skill point. Active skill points are pretty scarce, so each one that you don't need to spend are actually quite important. It also means you have from the get-go, a higher selection of passives to skill (which kinda negates the downside of her being an Operative, since you can simply ignore that class and focus on psyker abilities)

There are buffs and benefits for keeping veil degredation down. Decreasing veil triggers perils of warp, psychic pneumonia, phenomena and a plethora of negative harms and effects from even Sanctioned psykers. From a lore perspective, this is precisely why psykers are dangerous.. allowing a tear in the veil brings forth the archenemy, and its influence. More than anything, I prefer to role play these games. While I understand some people prefer to min max, Ive never been that kind of player.. Except in an arpg, like GrimDawn/Diablo. I more enjoy thematic builds, that make sense for the character.

I dont really use mercs at all. I was only making the argument that the role CAN be filled. I always feel like Im missing dialog when I have a merc. Its something I almost never do in these games. (On a side note, they appear to bug out during some of these quests. My merc keeps popping up in dlc quests, and in act 3, when he shouldnt)

I dont really use the psykers anymore. I have gotten to where I only really use heinrix, if any psyker.. I built him as the Warrior, melee executioner, and his DoTs are pretty fun. Anything he hits in melee explodes in a cloud of numbers, consuming all DoT instantly. His DoTs are also heavily buffed, and as a Biomancer everything he hits takes on Poison/Bleeding/Burning! Hes got enough AP to buff the party, and still nuke single targets, while applying a minor map wide DoT on everything, doubling DoT dmg.

As for the two schools. I can see the argument for it, but also see it as thinning out other options. Its chosen, in place of something else, and you can still only choose 1 talent per level up. So yes, you do have more options at level up, but I dont really see it being that big a deal. At the point in which Heinrix will be able to pick all the spells from Biomancy, Idira will have the same amount of spells to choose, but from two schools. Same amount of skill points, twice as many skills to choose from, resulting in only half of them selected.. Thats all.. Its neat, no argument in that, and more choice is always awesome, but she wont have more active abilities than another psyker of the same level, is all I mean.
Last edited by Rizilliant; Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:55am
Revan619 Dec 31, 2024 @ 8:14am 
Originally posted by Rizilliant:

She starts with 2, but still only can level up with the same amount of skill points. Shes not choosing skills for both types per level up. And shes not going to have access to this late stage loot for quite some time, meaning shes spending two long acts without it. 120 PR is nuts though, Ill absolutely concede.. Not at all what I was expecting. That does indeed sound like a massive impact, and not at all minor. But its still just a number increase, when you boils it down. My lvl 40 Heinrix has 6 out of combat. 120 is insane

However, her 'role' as damage dealer, or buffer, or debuffer, is still easily replaced. Just a weaker variant.. You cant indefinitely cast warp abilities, anyway.. unless theres something Ive not yet encountered that blocks/replaces all veil degredation. Some of my abilities do repair veil, but not enough to spam spells.

It sounds like the argument is just that her numbers are bigger? Thats not what a "role" is.. She just does more damage in her role as damager. Thats a min/max argument, not a role. Power Creep.

What are you talking about leveling skills? what does that have to do with her psyker talents that are only unlocked by taking the ability schools. Idira starts with two which means she has two abilities rather than one so has access to the talents from both schools without buying an ability. This means she has more abilities.

She doesnt need late stage loot. Her unique gloves are at the start of act 2 and are as strong as late game psyker chest pieces which she can double stack with her unique gloves no one else can wear. Meaning each perils proc gains her 2-3 psy rating. That number increase is a direct x to your damage. So abilities that x your heinrixes 6 to damage. Idira is doing x120 in this scenario. To put that into perspective even at 18 PR you can do 10k damage AoEs with the sanctified staff. Idira is doing over 10x that with pain channelling excess damage transfer to a new target. Backdraft can also cause everyone in that aoe to generate an extra half damage to nearby people. Then on her mental attacks she can use aftershock to generate another half damage. This is without including psychic barrage or her operative damage riders.

It isnt easily replaced. Idira can make an ally have 999 in stats. Others maybe 200-300. She can also give extra turns like an officer if you go down the biomancer route. There are combinations with entrench to avoid the damage you would take from this. It helps ulfar or Argenta have obscene AP to clear encounters. Very good paired with Finest hour from an officer. If you give Idira the commander's chrono which is an act 4 item she always goes first even as a bounty hunter for buff loops.

Idira also has a unique ability that veil procs generate momentum thus heroic actions called thriving in peril. So procs actually give you the heroic actions to 1 turn encounters from buffing before the enemy even takes their turn. She can lower veil degradation with other talents or allies using force swords or your navigator.

Her numbers arnt just bigger. They are insanely bigger and she can effectively buff, debuff and damage all at the same time. My personal only gripe is operative limits her but finest hour removes the attack limit as does warp surge brooch which is a unique item for psykers.

At this point you are coping when you are saying one of the few S class companions isnt good.
Last edited by Revan619; Dec 31, 2024 @ 8:15am
Aranador Dec 31, 2024 @ 8:43am 
My first playthrough, my first encounter with Idira in it, in the Navigator Sanctum. Her first action - is to blow herself up, knock Abelard and RT on their ass half dead, and summon a bloodletter.

Now I think they've patched her to not summon demons that early

but

Idira can warm that bench until Heinrik has time to vivisect her. I have spoken.
Roknar Dec 31, 2024 @ 10:00am 
It goes both ways, yes she doesn't fill any role a merc could not also fulfill well enough. But the same can be said for ALL companions. Even Cassia can be replaced with a merc to get a navigator background.

On the flipside, none of the mercs can fill a role better than a given companion (bar conviction restrictions, ie compansions leaving.) What they can do better is custom builds/parties.

Psykers are not a role but they are effectively the strongest damage dealers in the game, and Idira is perhaps the strongest of them. (and arguably the same goes for buffs. Reducing enemy dodge map wide by 60+% for simply existing is HUGE)
yahboi1988 Dec 31, 2024 @ 10:13am 
So I must be using her differently then most people. I made her a grand strategist and use her to buff my main character's defensive stats to just make sure my MC makes it to her or my officer's turn, then it's GG's. Bladedancer/Exicutioner/Pyromancer is broken.
Rizilliant Dec 31, 2024 @ 11:28am 
Originally posted by Revan619:
Originally posted by Rizilliant:

She starts with 2, but still only can level up with the same amount of skill points. Shes not choosing skills for both types per level up. And shes not going to have access to this late stage loot for quite some time, meaning shes spending two long acts without it. 120 PR is nuts though, Ill absolutely concede.. Not at all what I was expecting. That does indeed sound like a massive impact, and not at all minor. But its still just a number increase, when you boils it down. My lvl 40 Heinrix has 6 out of combat. 120 is insane

However, her 'role' as damage dealer, or buffer, or debuffer, is still easily replaced. Just a weaker variant.. You cant indefinitely cast warp abilities, anyway.. unless theres something Ive not yet encountered that blocks/replaces all veil degredation. Some of my abilities do repair veil, but not enough to spam spells.

It sounds like the argument is just that her numbers are bigger? Thats not what a "role" is.. She just does more damage in her role as damager. Thats a min/max argument, not a role. Power Creep.

What are you talking about leveling skills? what does that have to do with her psyker talents that are only unlocked by taking the ability schools. Idira starts with two which means she has two abilities rather than one so has access to the talents from both schools without buying an ability. This means she has more abilities.

She doesnt need late stage loot. Her unique gloves are at the start of act 2 and are as strong as late game psyker chest pieces which she can double stack with her unique gloves no one else can wear. Meaning each perils proc gains her 2-3 psy rating. That number increase is a direct x to your damage. So abilities that x your heinrixes 6 to damage. Idira is doing x120 in this scenario. To put that into perspective even at 18 PR you can do 10k damage AoEs with the sanctified staff. Idira is doing over 10x that with pain channelling excess damage transfer to a new target. Backdraft can also cause everyone in that aoe to generate an extra half damage to nearby people. Then on her mental attacks she can use aftershock to generate another half damage. This is without including psychic barrage or her operative damage riders.

It isnt easily replaced. Idira can make an ally have 999 in stats. Others maybe 200-300. She can also give extra turns like an officer if you go down the biomancer route. There are combinations with entrench to avoid the damage you would take from this. It helps ulfar or Argenta have obscene AP to clear encounters. Very good paired with Finest hour from an officer. If you give Idira the commander's chrono which is an act 4 item she always goes first even as a bounty hunter for buff loops.

Idira also has a unique ability that veil procs generate momentum thus heroic actions called thriving in peril. So procs actually give you the heroic actions to 1 turn encounters from buffing before the enemy even takes their turn. She can lower veil degradation with other talents or allies using force swords or your navigator.

Her numbers arnt just bigger. They are insanely bigger and she can effectively buff, debuff and damage all at the same time. My personal only gripe is operative limits her but finest hour removes the attack limit as does warp surge brooch which is a unique item for psykers.

At this point you are coping when you are saying one of the few S class companions isnt good.
Where did I say she isnt good? And why are you so personally offended? "coping"? How am I coping? Its just a game.. Something to do in my downtime.. I thought we were having a friendly discussion.. apparently not.. Why do so many of you take this crap so seriously, that you begin to act like a whiney ♥♥♥♥♥? Her numbers are bigger.. Big deal.. The game is already insanely easy, barring a handful of poorly designed encounters.. How many battles are going to last to the point that you get to such a high PR? Four? All those words, and all you managed to say is her numbers are bigger..

She is easily replaced.. The game can easily be won with sub par team.. One minute shes the worst ting in the game, the next shes the greatest thing in the game, with unmatched everything.. Pick a lane!

Originally posted by Revan619:
It is an unsanctioned psyker operative. Two of the worst things in game.
This you?
Revan619 Dec 31, 2024 @ 11:43am 
Tl;Dr
You don't understand the game so came to whine on steam. Gotcha.
Rizilliant Dec 31, 2024 @ 11:48am 
Oh no, Im not a no life nerd... Woe is me! How ever will I continue
Aseng Dec 31, 2024 @ 4:59pm 
She is ♥♥♥♥ gameplay wise and borderline crazy, i'm glad Argenta killed her. The Emperor protects.
MacabreLion Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:51pm 
Originally posted by Rizilliant:
Oh no, Im not a no life nerd... Woe is me! How ever will I continue

couldn't tell.
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Date Posted: Dec 14, 2024 @ 8:12am
Posts: 94