Dogmatic = evil?

[SoundsOfNight]

I'm sure killing a lot of ppl!

[Sliscus]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Grimkhor:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sliscus:

It's not just the inquisition.

It's the high lords of terra who pass law after useless law in order to remain relevant.
it's the adeptus arbites that enforces those laws, arresting criminals to be ground into corpse starch for minor infractions.
it's the astartes like the black temples that kill anyone with the slightest mutation after they "free" a world. They literally subject entire populations to genetic scan and purge all mutants, and not the crazy chaos type, like "you have polydactyl, you are going on the pyre"
it's the ecclesiarchy manipulating facts and killing to cover the truth about their faith to maintain the power they have.
it's the sisters of battle that purge worlds because a child didn't fight the xenos hard enough when their world was invaded.
it's the commissars that execute the last man to open fire because they can;t think of any other way to inspire their men.

and this entire apparatus of misery exists to maintain an empire *that is dead and rotting* there is no hope for the imperium, there is no saving it, best case senario, enough humans are far enough from terra when the golden throne fails and opens a new eye of terror they aren't sucked into the warp.

The question is why is humanity doing all of that? For pleasure like chaos? They do it because mutations did kill whole worlds with trillions of people. Heretics killed worlds with trillions of people. Guardsman that ran away killed trillions of people by losing the battle. Criminals that stole resources daming trillions of people to starve to death. Xenos is broad should you trust the Eldar that will sacrifice a whole planet of humans to find a single relic or the drukhari that make living meat chairs out of you or orks that may decide to kill you for fun.

Good guys in 40k is like a pacifist in a boxing ring sometimes you have to mess the other persons face (or entire population) up because the other person will do it if you don't.

I have answered this "Because they want to dominate the galaxy" there are plenty of small scale xenos that sit in their little corner and get left alone, Humanity is obsessed with this idea that every last inch of the galaxy is their by birthright.

[meatmaaan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sliscus:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Grimkhor:

The question is why is humanity doing all of that? For pleasure like chaos? They do it because mutations did kill whole worlds with trillions of people. Heretics killed worlds with trillions of people. Guardsman that ran away killed trillions of people by losing the battle. Criminals that stole resources daming trillions of people to starve to death. Xenos is broad should you trust the Eldar that will sacrifice a whole planet of humans to find a single relic or the drukhari that make living meat chairs out of you or orks that may decide to kill you for fun.

Good guys in 40k is like a pacifist in a boxing ring sometimes you have to mess the other persons face (or entire population) up because the other person will do it if you don't.

I have answered this "Because they want to dominate the galaxy" there are plenty of small scale xenos that sit in their little corner and get left alone, Humanity is obsessed with this idea that every last inch of the galaxy is their by birthright.

not just xenos but other human communities right? and if they dont conform to the Imperium, well...

[REhorror]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sliscus:

Ursprungligen skrivet av cdzander:

Dogmatic is humanity first. Not necessarily every human though. It's a battlefield surgery kind of philosophy, in which you may have to remove a limb to save the patient. So to prevent humanity itself from falling to Chaos or getting wiped out by xenos, you have to kill some people. That's how the governing institutions of the Imperium see it.

Iconoclast you try to save everyone. You can't. It's a ♥♥♥♥ universe.

Heresy just wants to watch the galaxy burn.

Except Dogmatic always goes too far, they always err on the side of caution "oh we found one chaos cultist? Better cleanse the planet in fire prepare the Atmospheric incinerator torpedoes.

Oh look, some Eldar are trying to retrieve some soulstones on an imperial world.
Did the local humans in any way cooperate? They did because they saw giving the Xenos what they were looking for in order to be left alone was better than decades of gruelling war? HERESY! Time for cyclonic torpedoes.

Oh, someone coughed on a hive world, Nurgle worship, prepare the Mortalis Atmospheric Missiles

Is there an example of this in game where you cleanese the planet because of one heretic?
Even Chorda doesn't, and she's supposedly cruel.

Meanwhile, the Eldar actually attempts to cleanse 1 planet because of one Dark Eldar mad doctor being there (never mind that SOME Eldar do ally with Dark Eldar).

So does that make the Eldar even more dogmatic and evil than the Imperium?

[REhorror]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sliscus:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Grimkhor:

The question is why is humanity doing all of that? For pleasure like chaos? They do it because mutations did kill whole worlds with trillions of people. Heretics killed worlds with trillions of people. Guardsman that ran away killed trillions of people by losing the battle. Criminals that stole resources daming trillions of people to starve to death. Xenos is broad should you trust the Eldar that will sacrifice a whole planet of humans to find a single relic or the drukhari that make living meat chairs out of you or orks that may decide to kill you for fun.

Good guys in 40k is like a pacifist in a boxing ring sometimes you have to mess the other persons face (or entire population) up because the other person will do it if you don't.

I have answered this "Because they want to dominate the galaxy" there are plenty of small scale xenos that sit in their little corner and get left alone, Humanity is obsessed with this idea that every last inch of the galaxy is their by birthright.

This is obvious nonsense because humanity employ mutants and even have some alliances with xenos when possible.

Humanity obviously want dominant of the stars, but we do share and tolerate what we can.
Will the eldars, orks, tau empires do the same?

Where are all the human enclaves in Eldar Craftworld?

[Grimkhor]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sliscus:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Grimkhor:

The question is why is humanity doing all of that? For pleasure like chaos? They do it because mutations did kill whole worlds with trillions of people. Heretics killed worlds with trillions of people. Guardsman that ran away killed trillions of people by losing the battle. Criminals that stole resources daming trillions of people to starve to death. Xenos is broad should you trust the Eldar that will sacrifice a whole planet of humans to find a single relic or the drukhari that make living meat chairs out of you or orks that may decide to kill you for fun.

Good guys in 40k is like a pacifist in a boxing ring sometimes you have to mess the other persons face (or entire population) up because the other person will do it if you don't.

I have answered this "Because they want to dominate the galaxy" there are plenty of small scale xenos that sit in their little corner and get left alone, Humanity is obsessed with this idea that every last inch of the galaxy is their by birthright.

Ok tell me where was chaos sitting peacefully on a planet and the evil humans came to dominate them. Tell me quickly where did the Tyranids sit peacefully until humanity arrived to murder them all. I need a quick reminder where the guardsman with commisars are doing large scale invasions of populated worlds.

[REhorror]

Ursprungligen skrivet av meatmaaan:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REhorror:

Nope, it's stupid writing, missing the forests for the trees.

Saving hundreds of people while forgotting to mention that you left billions of souls to Chaos.

oh no they do mention that again. maybe you should actually finish the game

I've seen the ending slides, even mentioning saving hundreds of people managed to deliver solid blows to Chaos is obvious stupid nonsense.

EDIT: And obviously, I don't see that slide on my run, because I do the correct thing and exterminatus it.

[meatmaaan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REhorror:

Ursprungligen skrivet av meatmaaan:

oh no they do mention that again. maybe you should actually finish the game

I've seen the ending slides, even mentioning saving hundreds of people managed to deliver solid blows to Chaos is obvious stupid nonsense.

EDIT: And obviously, I don't see that slide on my run, because I do the correct thing and exterminatus it.

well thats just like... your opinion maaan

[REhorror]

Ursprungligen skrivet av meatmaaan:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REhorror:

I've seen the ending slides, even mentioning saving hundreds of people managed to deliver solid blows to Chaos is obvious stupid nonsense.

EDIT: And obviously, I don't see that slide on my run, because I do the correct thing and exterminatus it.

well thats just like... your opinion maaan

So you do think saving hundreds while leaving billions of souls to Chaos so they can make more daemons is the correct choice instead?
And you say Iconoclast is less evil than Dogmatic?

[REhorror]

That reminds me, I just encounter a sorta hilarious Icon vs Dogmatic choices with the wandering psyker in Eufrates II.

Dogmatic - see wandering psyker, immediately attack and put her out of her misery/further mutation.
Iconoclast - hold up, ask how she is feeling, send in the doctors, she goes out of control and still blow up in your face.

So essentially the same outcome, but Dogmatic is quick while Iconoclast drags things out for good boy points.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Amateur Nitpicker:

Honestly the way the imperium's going, I think humanity will spawn another chaos lord spawned by injustices of the imperium to there own citizens. Also those psykers who are sacrificed daily... Don't they think their psychic energy will also coalesce and eventually take revenge on the empire. The empire doesn't care about me as an individual, why would I care about the "future" of humanity

The existence of a 5th Chaos God is somewhat debatable, but he has been mentioned.

Malal, the Chaos God of Nihilism basically just wants to destroy everything in the universe, including all the other gods. Due to how absolutely craptastic the Warhammer 40k universe is for everybody but the Orks, it would not be difficult to imagine why someone would turn to worshiping him.

[REhorror]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Amateur Nitpicker:

Honestly the way the imperium's going, I think humanity will spawn another chaos lord spawned by injustices of the imperium to there own citizens. Also those psykers who are sacrificed daily... Don't they think their psychic energy will also coalesce and eventually take revenge on the empire. The empire doesn't care about me as an individual, why would I care about the "future" of humanity

The existence of a 5th Chaos God is somewhat debatable, but he has been mentioned.

Malal, the Chaos God of Nihilism basically just wants to destroy everything in the universe, including all the other gods. Due to how absolutely craptastic the Warhammer 40k universe is for everybody but the Orks, it would not be difficult to imagine why someone would turn to worshiping him.

I mean, that's kinda extreme, no?

So the Imperium is terrible because purging heretics and making servitors, so let's worship the god that want to destroy everything instead?

Sound kinda tantrum-y, tbqh.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REhorror:

I mean, that's kinda extreme, no?

So the Imperium is terrible because purging heretics and making servitors, so let's worship the god that want to destroy everything instead?

Sound kinda tantrum-y, tbqh.

I judge life based on its quality, not its quantity.

If your existence is one of constant misery and oppression, then it's not an existence worth living. And by destroying everything that perpetuates that existence, you spare subsequent generations who would have been subjected to the same fate.

[REhorror]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REhorror:

I mean, that's kinda extreme, no?

So the Imperium is terrible because purging heretics and making servitors, so let's worship the god that want to destroy everything instead?

Sound kinda tantrum-y, tbqh.

I judge life based on its quality, not its quantity.

If your existence is one of constant misery and oppression, then it's not an existence worth living. And by destroying everything that perpetuates that existence, you spare subsequent generations who would have been subjected to the same fate.

Man, that's a take.
I consider life precious, so even a miserable life is worth living because it can get better.
Wanting to destroy everything because life bad is hilariously evil to me.

I guess this is a different in cultures too, I come from Vietnam, 2nd world, so we obviously can deal with much lower standards of living.

[forgotten_valkyrie]

dogmatic is blind devotion?

[Sliscus]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REhorror:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sliscus:

Except Dogmatic always goes too far, they always err on the side of caution "oh we found one chaos cultist? Better cleanse the planet in fire prepare the Atmospheric incinerator torpedoes.

Oh look, some Eldar are trying to retrieve some soulstones on an imperial world.
Did the local humans in any way cooperate? They did because they saw giving the Xenos what they were looking for in order to be left alone was better than decades of gruelling war? HERESY! Time for cyclonic torpedoes.

Oh, someone coughed on a hive world, Nurgle worship, prepare the Mortalis Atmospheric Missiles

Is there an example of this in game where you cleanese the planet because of one heretic?
Even Chorda doesn't, and she's supposedly cruel.

Meanwhile, the Eldar actually attempts to cleanse 1 planet because of one Dark Eldar mad doctor being there (never mind that SOME Eldar do ally with Dark Eldar).

So does that make the Eldar even more dogmatic and evil than the Imperium?

not this game, this is teh setting in general.

And to compare the eldar and the imperium in terms of "acceptable losses"

The eldar will kill ten thousand imperial citizens to save one eldar soulstone.

The Imperium will kill ten thousand imperial citizens to kill one eldar.