The Rogue Trader you create, is the weakest

[Corcal]

Something that bugs me about the game is that the NPC party members, even Abelard, they are all inherently better than the Main Character (MC) that you create. They all have extra traits, like heavy armor proficiency, despite not meeting the requirements. Worse, they can have origins you can't choose or compete with, like Idira, Kibella, and Cassia, that offer them better options than what you can get with MC.

I've been working on ways to try and make an MC that can compete, but in the end I feel like the MC is the worst member of the party, and you're stuck with them. The lack of a psyker archtype also bugs me.

[badAimMan]

My blade dancer MC was an ass beater who could solo wipe the entire board. Depends on what archtypes you choose

[Aethrys]

Created characters can actually become better psykers. Psychic awakening grants an extra Psy Rating level that party characters don't have.

[Sin]

Originally posted by Aethrys:

Created characters can actually become better psykers. Psychic awakening grants an extra Psy Rating level that party characters don't have.

Idira should outperform you in late exemplar levels when you are able to "fix" her early choices. That being said: I prefer keeping her as a buff bot with some mean damage in the back, just in case I need it.
Did not fully utilize her dynamo but got her to hit psychic screams (..the one she starts with, not the cone) for over 7k. This could have been much more.
Comes with the risk of turning into a demon ofcourse, but hey.. what is life without some spice.

[AnonymousWizard]

Originally posted by Gengisgame:

Some people defend this with the Rogue Trader shouldn't be the strongest but there is no actual reasoning for that.

To logic my way through this, the fact of the matter is that most Rogue Traders won't have seen combat in a long time, if ever. The exceptions are the Commissar and Crime Lord, even the Guard Officer is highly placed enough that they'd only see combat if a campaign went pear shaped (and even then might be evacuated before their command post is overrun, but that's not certain). Which is assuming that the characters were ever low enough in rank to serve on the front lines, the Guard Commander probably started their career as a lieutenant but the Noble, Naval Officer, and Psyker may have legitimately never been in a combat situation.

However all of them are fully trained as combatants for one reason or another (except possibly an Ecclessiarch, particularly if they're an Officer), which is why the prologue quickly raises them from 'fresh out of character creation' to 'actually capable' quickly, From there I'm

That said, while I've not done any testing to verify it, I think the Conviction bonuses are based entirely on the Rogue Trader's scores. Not as big or flashy as Wrath of the Righteous's mythic paths, but arguably more fitting for a game about being an Imperialistic Space Noble. If this isn't just me misinterpreting how combat's gone and only some characters are activating the 'turn one burn infliction' power then the Rogue Trader does get her own little unique thing at the end of the prologue.

Frankly if anybody in this game is underpowered it's the space marines, particularly Aurora.


That aside, Rogue Traders will tend to be slightly better than their party members for the most skilled players, if only because the player gets to assign their stat points and gets control of them from first level. But that's a gap that'll close as characters who join later slowly become proportionately fewer talents behind.

[Morgian]

As someone said, don't copy a companion you will have constantly around and do your own thing.
My latest RT is an officer/tactician with crimelord origin and sanctic powers (you can pick them in the exemplar levels), built for sniping. Admittedly he rarely gets to shoot with Argenta, Pasqal and Khibella on the team.

[(Merchant) B1tF0x]

the Rouge Trader has lore reasons to be the weakest member of the party. mostly because the majority even the better off ones are still base level human with some nice battle gear.

owlcat is under no obligation to make your character be super special awesome (and they do anyway. though admittedly not as much in RT as Wrath letting you be an angel or demon or whatever other paths.

[Azunai]

i figured it makes most sense for the MC to be a leader, not an enforcer. so he has fellowship as his main attribute and the officer class. he isn't the best fighter in the group. he command his subordinates to do the fighting.

[revan1229]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

If your main a decently built psyker he will be far more powerful then the rest of the team because of how overpowered psykers are and the fact that you built him from level 1. Idira is crazy powerful but she's definitely not more powerful then my sanctic officer pyromancer spamming non stop area attacks dealing around 250 to 600 damage.

This is not true. Idira can do far more than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilGFO54qsno

[revan1229]

What would be cool is if the Conviction system was more fleshed out and worked like the Mythic path system in WOTR. That or we got better bonuses from the colony projects (like bonus PR for each enemy killed, etc.).

[Gengisgame]

Originally posted by AnonymousWizard:

Originally posted by Gengisgame:

Some people defend this with the Rogue Trader shouldn't be the strongest but there is no actual reasoning for that.

To logic my way through this, the fact of the matter is that most Rogue Traders won't have seen combat in a long time, if ever. The exceptions are the Commissar and Crime Lord, even the Guard Officer is highly placed enough that they'd only see combat if a campaign went pear shaped (and even then might be evacuated before their command post is overrun, but that's not certain). Which is assuming that the characters were ever low enough in rank to serve on the front lines, the Guard Commander probably started their career as a lieutenant but the Noble, Naval Officer, and Psyker may have legitimately never been in a combat situation.

The MC just became a Rogue Trader and your reasoning feels like you just assume most of the backgrounds involved the MC sitting in an office, the background is left open to interpretation and given 40K, most of the backgrounds could have involved the MC being knee deep in blood for most of their careers. But the mentions of your combat skill are always highly praised when it does get brought up.

But all that aside, I feel like people are trying to lore reason it as a defence rather than what people actually want. This is a video game where most if has you involved in the mechanics, not the lore, the Rogue Trader is the MC, they should not be copies of NPC mercenaries, and of all the demands made of this game, something as basic as a unique starting talent is very easy to pull off.

[Revan619]

Well that is laughably wrong. Player built psykers are far more powerful than any companion. All you have done is project a massive skill issue.

Player blade dancer leaping around act 4 boss on unfair grimdark with ease. https://youtu.be/wvx9B9e4j0Q

Originally posted by revan1229:

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

If your main a decently built psyker he will be far more powerful then the rest of the team because of how overpowered psykers are and the fact that you built him from level 1. Idira is crazy powerful but she's definitely not more powerful then my sanctic officer pyromancer spamming non stop area attacks dealing around 250 to 600 damage.

This is not true. Idira can do far more than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilGFO54qsno

That is turn 8 multiple ally buff stacking.... Which is still weaker than a player BD EXE pyro which can do 15k+ damage turn 1.... https://youtu.be/_3r08LNVEVY

That isnt even the best way to run Idira as you can use a bounty hunter without wasting all your points on strength for breastplate to get just as high psy rating turn 1. https://youtu.be/Bco5egLrA5w

[revan1229]

Originally posted by Revan619:

That is turn 8 multiple ally buff stacking.... Which is still weaker than a player BD EXE pyro which can do 15k+ damage turn 1.... https://youtu.be/_3r08LNVEVY

That isnt even the best way to run Idira as you can use a bounty hunter without wasting all your points on strength for breastplate to get just as high psy rating turn 1. https://youtu.be/Bco5egLrA5w

That Idira gameplay is in Act 2.... And both builds are bounty hunter?
The breastplate and being a bounty hunter is not mutually exclusive.

The Pyro melee build is not the same as being a caster Psyker, which is what Idira is. And MC just cannot build up PR like she can and starts with only one school to her (and Heinrix's) 2.

[Balekai]

I think this topic is getting away from the main debate. Let's be honest it doesn't matter to 99.9% of the game if you do 300 damage or 3000 damage or 30000 damage. 90% of enemies on unfair are going to have less then 200 health, let alone 300-500 health. mid game bosses like 1.5K health more or less mid game, with the toughest endgame bosses having around 10K-20K max, that a classic Heavy Bolter/Improved Heavy bolster Aregnta well buffed can still kill in 1 round. Or Yrliet with Finest Hour buff. Or Kibella now with Finest Hour Buff, Pascal, Casia etc etc. the list goes on.

If you have optimized your party enough to do 1K+ damage from one character in one turn by around mid game w/ buffs (which will happen just with common sense choices for premade companions and good gearing), then good job well played you win game on unfair already! It basically comes down to that. :P

In a way it doesn't matter whether your MC is less or more powerful than premade companions. Things are gonna die and you're gonna win unlike playing Unfair in Kingmaker/Wotr that can go wrong fast and early requiring a rethink/restart.

It is true though that in some cases, your main character is just going to feel less powerful then a default companion counterpart in some cases. Or less gimmicky/unique than some companions. I don't consider Mercs in that opinion, because if rationally the MC is "weak" or less "unique" compared to Companions as a starting thought process, than Mercs are definitely going to be weaker and less unique. :D :D

At least an MC Rogue Trader gets unique talents as I mentioned before, due to in game decisions and Protectorate events. Mercs do not andd they cost PF.

Although small and incremental in most cases, here's the unique things my RT got as unique talents (that don't effect everyone in the party so not a complete list):

- Celestial Inspiration: +10 Momentum on combat start.
- Champion of the Abyss: +2 Weapon skill, +5 Coercion.
- Frequency of Faith: all allies gain +2% Critical Chance.
- Wasteland Prayer: Decrease Critical Damage by -15%
- Disciples of the Damned: Chaos Creatures, Psykers and Navigators do -10% damage to RT.
- Punisher: RT has +10% dodge vs Human enemies.
- The Hammer in the Cog: RT heals Iconoclast Ranks x3 more wounds with Medkits.
- Mercy of the Fallen: +2 Resolve.

- Merciful Saviour: Whenever an ally is healed for the first time in a round they do 8% more damage. Stacks (I think this works for all healing form all party members, but in my build I posted above my RT is the one healing everryone with Light of the Emperor at the beginning of every Round, making everyone do 8% more damage every round including non party allies).

- Holy Woman: A Character gains +10% more damage and +20 temp wounds when a character uses their Origin ability, which is about 3-5 times per turn for my RT in build I posted above being a Word/Light/Hammer spammer + Invigorate and Iron Arm abilities lol. This may effect everyone it's worded weird like Merciful Savior. Never checked though.

- Pure Voice Flame: RT gains +15% in all skills.
- Mistress of the Shadowy Expanse: RT gains +10 INT, FELL, WILL

- Paradox Solved (not specifically exclusive to RT, but I solved the Paradox with my RT rather than say Pascal: This character can use a Heroic Act regardless of their momentum, without using momentum (Free Heroic Act use).

- Bestower of Freedom: Rogue Trader gains 3x Iconoclast rank Fellowship.

- Master of Interrogation: +10 Lore and +3 crit chance vs. Xenos.

- Malediction of Rycad Minoris (added this back in with Toy Box as it's now a permanent talent rather than a buff you can get rid of): -5 Willpower.

Then there's the Rank 4 Iconoclast ability Transcend the Potential, which acts much like Paradox Solved, but rather by giving another ally a free use of their Heroic Act.

All in all that's some pretty unique buffs a Merc can't get.

Further more some Homeworlds/Origins are not used by default companions. After Cassia's Homeworld change on release and before Kibellah addition, a Voidborn character felt very unique (and still does) with many nice mechanics such as Fortune, Be Smart, Contagious Luck, Jinx etc.

[AnonymousWizard]

Originally posted by Gengisgame:

Originally posted by AnonymousWizard:

To logic my way through this, the fact of the matter is that most Rogue Traders won't have seen combat in a long time, if ever. The exceptions are the Commissar and Crime Lord, even the Guard Officer is highly placed enough that they'd only see combat if a campaign went pear shaped (and even then might be evacuated before their command post is overrun, but that's not certain). Which is assuming that the characters were ever low enough in rank to serve on the front lines, the Guard Commander probably started their career as a lieutenant but the Noble, Naval Officer, and Psyker may have legitimately never been in a combat situation.

The MC just became a Rogue Trader and your reasoning feels like you just assume most of the backgrounds involved the MC sitting in an office, the background is left open to interpretation and given 40K, most of the backgrounds could have involved the MC being knee deep in blood for most of their careers. But the mentions of your combat skill are always highly praised when it does get brought up.

Yes I presume that most of the backgrounds had the RT essentially stuck in an office, they were of incredibly high rank. We're talking generals and people roughly equal in authority to planetary governors., That said I'm not assuming they're unskilled, just rusty and spending Act 1 getting back into the swing of things.

But all that aside, I feel like people are trying to lore reason it as a defence rather than what people actually want. This is a video game where most if has you involved in the mechanics, not the lore, the Rogue Trader is the MC, they should not be copies of NPC mercenaries, and of all the demands made of this game, something as basic as a unique starting talent is very easy to pull off.

Oh, I'll admit that while I don't particularly need my MC to be special (especially when Rogue Trader is a position of economic power, similarly to how Inquisitors aren't universally combatants) I get the people who do want it. But honestly I'd probably have instead given them more skill boosts in character creation than more combat power, or possibly a unique 'inspire courage' ability.

Then again I don't use NPC mercenaries because the party fills up pretty quickly.

[Darx]

sadly thats true. owlcat tried really hard this time to let the companions outshine your mc.