Why do astartes suck?

[Kshahdoo]

Aren't they supposed to be supersoldiers who are able to destroys thousands enemies singlehandedly?

In the game they don't look like supersoldiers for sure. First, a bunch of noobs kill Aurora. Second, I've just killed a chaos marine on Kiava before he even made his first turn.

Astates don't impress me like at all, or it's because they are chaos ones, and real astartes are still real badass?

[Fidel Castro]

[/quote]
Oh boy, that's heresy right there, my man.
Age of Sigmar is so bad that GW is bringing back the Old World, nuff said. [/quote]

they're re-releasing because they smell money, same reason they're doing Heresy. People want the old models/ruleset and are willing to pay for updated models and slightly tweaked rules. Not because AoS is bad, AoS is going gangbusters right now.

[Sotanaht]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Kshahdoo:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Moffin Bovin:

You've never played the table top have you?

Hehe, I've played a lot of different systems, just not WH40k.

Try to remember that in tabletop, an army of Imperial Guard can defeat an army of Space Marines (chaos or otherwise). While the IG will certainly need greater numbers, 6 to 1 could probably pull it off, and your retinue is certainly stronger than the average IG trooper.

[scha4lo]

You have 2 psykers in your team, and theoretically an unsanctioned psyker can turn the entire Astartes squad in to a jelly in the power armor :)
Or call malice to the entire planet, so yeah your team is not that simple, but the computer game balance is different from what's written in the books because they usually feature some Astartes heroes, and like others mentioned usually contradict even with their own content.

[DreamPod9]

Ok, so I'll give you the Aurora fight, you're a little under prepared in weaponry as you haven't found much besides solid projectile weapons and the occasional bolter. Ok, sure the Aurora fight should have been more difficult.

However once you get to the manufactorum, I was running around with melta guns, an inferno pistol, my rogue trader was proficient with plasma pistols and guns. Yes, Astartes are supposed to be walking tanks. But a plasma gun to the face will kill one without much effort.

[gurugeorge]

As others are saying, it's not so implausible in context. You aren't like a team of new lvl 1 adventurers in a fantasy game, both you and your retinue have years of fighting experience and aren't like schlub recruits (that's why you personally have a backstory with moments of glory and moments of defeat).

To some extent, there is a mismatch between any levelling/progression system and the concepts (i.e. if the reality I'm talking about in the last paragraph were represented down to the builds, you'd probably be already well into your second archetype when you start the game, with a lot more tricks and toys out of the gate). But if you're willing to suspend disbelief to get over that hump, in terms of your characters as depicted story wise, it's not inconceivable that your team could take down a lone Space/Chaos Marine.

[REhorror]

If they clone Cassia, the whole galaxy would be conquered...and pronto.

[tank16365]

Also, I've noticed that, since every time I take a deadly route I have to fight a CSM, they stay relatively the same strength throughout the game. The Aurora fight was rough, luckily on like, my 5th attempt, his little buddies kept dumpfiring into his back every turn. he had like, 250 health or so, and the marine Abelard took by himself last night in 2 turns had 265.

[Grimkhor]

1. They couldn't be in the game if they had the lore power level so they have to be a bit nerfed. They also compare the power level of space marines to guardsman not enemies because a single space marine for sure cannot kill 1000 harlequins.

2. Do not forget that you're not some random dude. You're a rogue trader which have powers that are unimaginable for the normal human. Even you yourself kill 20-30 dudes in regular battles with powers far above regular guardsman. A troop of drukhari can take down a single space marine easily.

3. From the TTRPG a rogue trader has 5000 exp at the start and a space marine has 13000 exp at the start in the following book. So a basic no name unexperienced space marine should be about 2-3 times as strong as your basic unexperienced rogue trader.

4. There are differences in space marine power levels. Are you a regular space marine? You can die to a single big ork. Are you a named space marine? You can destroy hoards of orks while half asleep.

5. Let's talk argenta because sisters of battle do hunt heretic astartes. 5 sisters of battle with power armour and full equipment can kill a single space marine very reasonably.

Conclusion

Space marines are nerfed a bit for game balance but your team is actually very very strong too.

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Kshahdoo:

Yeah, but at the start of the game our rogure trader is just a casual dude who wasn't actually supposed to be a rogue trader, isn't he?

He was a candidate to become one. Theodora was scouting for an heir to inherit her position. Lucky for us, she died early on, and our only rival who was currently present got turned into a Chaos Spawn.

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BlazingScribe:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Kshahdoo:

Yeah, but at the start of the game our rogure trader is just a casual dude who wasn't actually supposed to be a rogue trader, isn't he? And they are a bucn of noobs at the start of the game, undergeared and underdevelopped.

Yeah, I understand it's an RPG so conventions are inevitable, but astartes are still must be tougher.

Astartes are not immune to plasma fire. And you aren't some jumped up guardsmen.

Space Marines are incredibly powerful, but they are far and away from being invincible.

Drukhari Harlequins make the Space Marines look like Imperial Guardsmen by comparison. While the Eversor Assassins utilized by the Ecclesiarchy are dangerous enough to make even the Space Marines have an "oh ♥♥♥♥!" moment when they encounter one.

Space Marines were not the most dangerous soldiers that the Emperor could produce. They were just the most dangerous soldiers that the Emperor could mass produce. The Custodes that guard the palace and golden throne are supposed to be way more powerful, as were the Thunder Warriors who served as early prototypes for the Astartes who came later.

[Guy Inkognito]

In the books normal Astartes armor (not tactical dreadnought armor) is mostly impenetrable to small arms fire (lucky hits into armor joints still hurt). Autopistol or gun fire is like rain to them. Lasguns can bring down a Space Marine only with concentrated fire from multiple shooters. Dangerous are heavy stubbers and lascannons as well as meltaguns and plasmaweapons. Flamers are mediocre. The effect of boltpistols or guns are different from book to book. Sometimes they are described as not armor piercing weapons, but created to be effective against unarmored targets, because Space Marines and their armor were not created to fight other Marines (...other enemies of mankind are of course always unarmored... doesn't make sense really). In other books a single bolt round can penetrate the armor easily. And of course experience matters too. But even a ten thousand year chaos veteran can be taken down by a lucky shot or just the hero of the book :P.
Of course in a PC game or even the tabletop it's difficult to live up to the books in terms of enemy numbers. Compare the Space Marine game where it is more like in the books, where a single marine slaughters hordes of orks (a bit too many, but still) to other games with quite different ratios.

[GrandMajora]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Guy Inkognito:

The effect of boltpistols or guns are different from book to book. Sometimes they are described as not armor piercing weapons, but created to be effective against unarmored targets, .

I thought Bolter rounds were effectively an automatic RPG launcher?

[Gracey Face]

The power of space marines varies wildly, but the only direct comparison (other than comparing ruleset values which doesn't necessarily work) from a codex has been that a space marine is roughly worth 10 "regular" human soldiers (not even imperial guard, as imperial guard are an elite force).

Considering that you and your retinue are elites (Your character is accomplished, Abelard is a high ranking navy officer, Agentina is a Sister of Battle, Pasqal is a high ranking Mechanicus, etc.) then the relative "weakness" of space marines is roughly in line with what should be expected.

[Coldhands]

I mean, if you shoot a Chaos Space Marine a bunch with a heavy bolter, they die like the most of people.

[william_es]

In the older versions of the table top wargame, space marine's used to block damage by rolling 2 6-sided dice. 2 to 12 possible, but 6-8 being more common. Total bell curve.

Space marine could block shots from some weaker weapons just by rolling _3_ or higher on 2 dice. You'd have to roll snake eyes, double 1's to take damage. Back then space marines were gods.

Then they reduced it to a single 6 sided die. And space marines died like flies when 40 imperial guardsman shot at them. Power armor blocked shots on a 3+, but eventually you'd roll 1's and 2's, and die. No bell curve to soften the chances.



But, you want to see what space marines are actually capable of, try watching a 5 part series of short videos called "Astartes" by Syama Pedersen.

Very nice CGI, and it shows what space marines could do. 5 marines board an _entire space ship_ full of heretics, and just slaughter everyone. Some marines have decades, or centuries, of fighting experience. And they're wearing literally the best armor the human race can make. The videos show what marines _should_ be, in the lore at least.