Canon to 40K?

[Shit Stain]

Im fairly new to the Warhammer 40k lore and seeing a Xenos and Space Marine in a party makes me question so much of the lore now, is this game canon/faithful to the 40k lore?

[[Heretic]Rivga]

thunda a écrit :

Diarmuhnd a écrit :

Original Rogue Trader way back in the early 1990's had lots of mixing, things change, things get retconned, things are reborn and things die screaming as they are stranded in the warp.

Modern Rogue Traders still can get away with mixing xeno scum with the Imperiums gentically engineered Space Marines who some also call xeno scum .. so yarp. Its all cannon.

Yeah its also canon that traders who get too heretical get killed by Inquisition or Inquisition hired traders. And consorting with xenos like dark eldar or orks, let alone Chaos is definitely too heretical.

So no, the game isnt canon to 40k unless your playthrough ends 1/3rd the way in because Inquisition killed your ass.

The words "Too heretical" when talking about Rogue traders is EXTREMELY HERETICAL, not you run of the mill heretical.
Falling to chaos, risking the empire heretical, not talking to or trading with Xenos - and it also depends on the Warrant of Trade the Rogue trader has.
They would probably get away with trading and working with Eldar and Dark Eldar, Chaos is a different matter but who knows.

Rogue trader RPG game had rules for Freebooter Orcz, which means according to Lore the Rogue trade could and do hire Orc Mercs.
Alongside Kroots, Orcz seem to be the most common race to work with Rogue traders (or certainly they are the first mentioned in the RPG books) - they are talked about in the Into the Storm book - which is canon.

Again Rogue traders are the exception to the normal rules, they get HUGE freedoms and any inquisitor that takes out a rogue trade best a very good reason as all the other Rogue traders would look at this as an infringement. And you do not rule dozens of planets by letting infringements go easily.

[thunda]

HereticRivga a écrit :

thunda a écrit :

Yeah its also canon that traders who get too heretical get killed by Inquisition or Inquisition hired traders. And consorting with xenos like dark eldar or orks, let alone Chaos is definitely too heretical.

So no, the game isnt canon to 40k unless your playthrough ends 1/3rd the way in because Inquisition killed your ass.

The words "Too heretical" when talking about Rogue traders is EXTREMELY HERETICAL, not you run of the mill heretical.
Falling to chaos, risking the empire heretical, not talking to or trading with Xenos - and it also depends on the Warrant of Trade the Rogue trader has.
They would probably get away with trading and working with Eldar and Dark Eldar, Chaos is a different matter but who knows.

Rogue trader RPG game had rules for Freebooter Orcz, which means according to Lore the Rogue trade could and do hire Orc Mercs.
Alongside Kroots, Orcz seem to be the most common race to work with Rogue traders (or certainly they are the first mentioned in the RPG books) - they are talked about in the Into the Storm book - which is canon.

Again Rogue traders are the exception to the normal rules, they get HUGE freedoms and any inquisitor that takes out a rogue trade best a very good reason as all the other Rogue traders would look at this as an infringement. And you do not rule dozens of planets by letting infringements go easily.

We're not talking about just trading or talking with xenos here, we're talking about having them be your battle buddies, possibly even killing imperial troops. Again we are also not talking about whats technically allowed for a trader, but what the Inquisition will actually do which is blam your heretical ass one way or another. You know the Inquisition? Their love of killing the heretic is greater than their love for the Emprah and his Warrants of Trade. Though dont say that to an inquisitor, he will kill you for heresy.

And thirdly, we got two fanatical militant-servants of the Emprah as companions already, people who've made oaths to fight heresy and enemies of the Imperium. Which mind you includes dark eldar and orks

Rogue Trader aka 1st edition is hilariously outdated and retconned in several areas by this point, it has nothing to do with canon anymore

[Balekai]

thunda a écrit :

HereticRivga a écrit :

The words "Too heretical" when talking about Rogue traders is EXTREMELY HERETICAL, not you run of the mill heretical.
Falling to chaos, risking the empire heretical, not talking to or trading with Xenos - and it also depends on the Warrant of Trade the Rogue trader has.
They would probably get away with trading and working with Eldar and Dark Eldar, Chaos is a different matter but who knows.

Rogue trader RPG game had rules for Freebooter Orcz, which means according to Lore the Rogue trade could and do hire Orc Mercs.
Alongside Kroots, Orcz seem to be the most common race to work with Rogue traders (or certainly they are the first mentioned in the RPG books) - they are talked about in the Into the Storm book - which is canon.

Again Rogue traders are the exception to the normal rules, they get HUGE freedoms and any inquisitor that takes out a rogue trade best a very good reason as all the other Rogue traders would look at this as an infringement. And you do not rule dozens of planets by letting infringements go easily.

We're not talking about just trading or talking with xenos here, we're talking about having them be your battle buddies, possibly even killing imperial troops. Again we are also not talking about whats technically allowed for a trader, but what the Inquisition will actually do which is blam your heretical ass one way or another. You know the Inquisition? Their love of killing the heretic is greater than their love for the Emprah and his Warrants of Trade. Though dont say that to an inquisitor, he will kill you for heresy.

And thirdly, we got two fanatical militant-servants of the Emprah as companions already, people who've made oaths to fight heresy and enemies of the Imperium. Which mind you includes dark eldar and orks

Rogue Trader aka 1st edition is hilariously outdated and retconned in several areas by this point, it has nothing to do with canon anymore

All of that is dealt with in the Beta already. Basically what matters is the whether those Xenos are doing the will of Xenos, or the will of the Rogue trader as ordained by the Imperium or the Emperor himself, via the Warrant of Trade.

Argenta is fanatical but not Lawful Stupid fanatical. She understands fully the implications of the Warrant and the Emperor's law. She's also a bit of a softy when it comes to the weak, desperate and the orphaned because of her Patron Saint/Past. She also surprisingly respects and get along with Yrliet not too badly. It's Idira she has the most issues with and basically acts like the ships' Commissar against her just waiting for the RT to give the word lol.

A Rogue Trader's will under the Warrant is law. Like I said in my above post, there are a lot more pressing matters about the Archenemy and Xenos in the Beta than "My Eldar buddy shot an IG Guard who no one cares about anyways." Way more serious things effecting the whole sector. Xenos and Chaos related. If having xenos members in your party is a bridge too far, get ready for the entire game plot. :p :P

The Inquisition, also with no Warrant, will employ other races to do their bidding if need be.

[Diarmuhnd]

HereticRivga a écrit :

A rogue trader has a letter from either the Emperor of Man himself or the Empire ...

No. They have a letter of Mark from the Ruling Council of Terra giving them an Imperial Charter to be a Rogue Trader. Each Charter has specific bounds and aims, so 1 Rogue Trader may be able to raise armies while another may not have more than a small fleet of ships.

Also, in 'modern' 40K all Space Marine Primaris are exhaustively mind scrubbed and reconditioned to be LOYAL which implies many older Space Marines have personalities of there own. That is why I say an ultra conservative chapter would not obey what they consider a Heretical command from a compromised representative of the Imperium, even an Inquisitor. So yeah, they wouldn't shed a tear gunning one of them down, in fact they would see it as there duty.

But who cares ... I just hope the game is fun and not 100% focused on being a 'loyal' Emperor botherer. LoL cheers

[[Heretic]Rivga]

thunda a écrit :

HereticRivga a écrit :

The words "Too heretical" when talking about Rogue traders is EXTREMELY HERETICAL, not you run of the mill heretical.
Falling to chaos, risking the empire heretical, not talking to or trading with Xenos - and it also depends on the Warrant of Trade the Rogue trader has.
They would probably get away with trading and working with Eldar and Dark Eldar, Chaos is a different matter but who knows.

Rogue trader RPG game had rules for Freebooter Orcz, which means according to Lore the Rogue trade could and do hire Orc Mercs.
Alongside Kroots, Orcz seem to be the most common race to work with Rogue traders (or certainly they are the first mentioned in the RPG books) - they are talked about in the Into the Storm book - which is canon.

Again Rogue traders are the exception to the normal rules, they get HUGE freedoms and any inquisitor that takes out a rogue trade best a very good reason as all the other Rogue traders would look at this as an infringement. And you do not rule dozens of planets by letting infringements go easily.

We're not talking about just trading or talking with xenos here, we're talking about having them be your battle buddies, possibly even killing imperial troops. Again we are also not talking about whats technically allowed for a trader, but what the Inquisition will actually do which is blam your heretical ass one way or another. You know the Inquisition? Their love of killing the heretic is greater than their love for the Emprah and his Warrants of Trade. Though dont say that to an inquisitor, he will kill you for heresy.

And thirdly, we got two fanatical militant-servants of the Emprah as companions already, people who've made oaths to fight heresy and enemies of the Imperium. Which mind you includes dark eldar and orks

Rogue Trader aka 1st edition is hilariously outdated and retconned in several areas by this point, it has nothing to do with canon anymore

I am not sue why I need to repeat this BUT the RPG game you can Play as Orc and Kroot Characters that follow a Rogue trade and work for a Rogue trader - THIS IS CANON, it is literally in the Into the Storm book.

Rogue traders have huge freedom, the inquisition needs to be very careful when dealing with them as the consensus is they a "chosen by the Emperor".
Maybe it has been retconned - but unless you can point to a specific book or source then it is canon full stop end of story.

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Diarmuhnd a écrit :

HereticRivga a écrit :

A rogue trader has a letter from either the Emperor of Man himself or the Empire ...

No. They have a letter of Mark from the Ruling Council of Terra giving them an Imperial Charter to be a Rogue Trader. Each Charter has specific bounds and aims, so 1 Rogue Trader may be able to raise armies while another may not have more than a small fleet of ships.

Also, in 'modern' 40K all Space Marine Primaris are exhaustively mind scrubbed and reconditioned to be LOYAL which implies many older Space Marines have personalities of there own. That is why I say an ultra conservative chapter would not obey what they consider a Heretical command from a compromised representative of the Imperium, even an Inquisitor. So yeah, they wouldn't shed a tear gunning one of them down, in fact they would see it as there duty.

But who cares ... I just hope the game is fun and not 100% focused on being a 'loyal' Emperor botherer. LoL :mead::chaos_star: cheers

"Some dynastic families date back to the founding of the Imperium and boast a Warrant of Trade with the Emperor’s own signature." - Quote From the core book.

Yes you are correct in most cases but the Warrant of trade started with the emperor and some of the most powerful Rogue traders boast a warrant with his personal signature - this obviously gives them authority beyond that of anyone even the other powerful rogue traders. - having "Gods" signature on your warrant as you could imagine opens many doors.

Never played the game myself but I was recently stuck in the middle of no where without internet and before I left I downloaded a digital copy of the RPG and read it, along with several other book.

[Rizilliant]

I am immediately put off by the highly unlikely diversity in characters/races.. I was already put off by it being only turn based, after Pathfinder combat was so great, but I cant get behind combat I dislike AND broken lore

[Ammo Donkey]

Lets Go Brandon! FJB a écrit :

I am immediately put off by the highly unlikely diversity in characters/races.. I was already put off by it being only turn based, after Pathfinder combat was so great, but I cant get behind combat I dislike AND broken lore

The lore isn't broken. Rogue Traders always have extremely diverse retinues. They are the guys the emperor sent out to explore beyond the borders of the Imperium. They have existed for as long as the warhamer 40.000 setting exists. Read up on them.

[Diarmuhnd]

40% Unga a écrit :

The lore isn't broken. Rogue Traders always have extremely diverse retinues. They are the guys the emperor sent out to explore beyond the borders of the Imperium. They have existed for as long as the warhamer 40.000 setting exists. Read up on them.

Yarp, this

It shows when someone has never played Rogue Trader eh? LoL

[Daliena]

So long as a Rogue Trader serves the interests of the Imperium and humanity, they have an extremely large amount of leeway in exactly how they do it. Things that would see almost anyone burnt at a pyre, and quite possible a pretty damn large one to fit anyone within their family/neighborhood/planet for possible risk of corruption, are tolerated from Rogue Traders as long as they remain provably loyal.

Having a xeno or two on your retinue is small beans, if you want to get declared Excommunicate Traitoris, you need to either start outright opposing Imperial interests, or deal with the arch-enemy in the forces of Chaos, or traffic in some truly vile Xenos crap like the Halo Devices, or other such things.

And, bear in mind, the Koronus Expanse is pretty much on fire as of this game, and The Maw is sealed, cutting it off from the rest of the Imperium. Local Inquisitor Man would have to be a particularly stupid example of the Puritan factions to blam you - at least, YET - over relatively minor infractions as long as you're still advancing the cause of humanity. Priorities, use you to cleanse the far bigger problems because it's not like he can call on infinite resources from outside the Expanse, and -then- murder you afterwards once the far worse fires have been put out. Nevermind if he's a Radical in which case he might frankly be of the opinion that yes we SHOULD weaponize everything alien and possibly even Chaos that we can to fight our enemies.

P.S. Also, the Space Marine companion is a Space Wolf. They've been known to wipe their asses with Inquisitorial decrees since the First War for Armageddon.

[REhorror]

The setting and backstory so far follows the 40K canon.

But whatever happens IN the story might not be canon, or GW just doesn't care because it's about some demonic threat in some system outta nowhere, it's not a galaxy-level threat worthy to be mentioned.

[Balekai]

REhorror a écrit :

The setting and backstory so far follows the 40K canon.

But whatever happens IN the story might not be canon, or GW just doesn't care because it's about some demonic threat in some system outta nowhere, it's not a galaxy-level threat worthy to be mentioned.

Yeah. Like I said earlier canon is probably the wrong terminology right from the get go. That's an in house decision by GW officially and/or whether 40K fans "consider" the game part of "canon" unofficially if not.

The fact is as you say REhorror, the Koronus Expanse is literally a tiny tiny sliver of a sector on the edge of Imperial space. The far North, North West portion of the Calixis Sector I believe. Northwestish/behind the Eye of Terror. It's basically designed as an RP tabletop adventure setting out of the way of anything else lore wise, but super interesting. The Halo Stars Daliena mentioned for one, which are uncharted space of long dead Empire(s) that had truly Lovecraftian civilisations, races and technology. And the Halo devices that are a horror show. (IF THEY'RE IN GAME AND YOUR RT/COMPANIONS SKILLCHECK TO NOTICE ONE WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T PICK THEM UP!!). lol

Also (spoilers and possible downer on game events), Any progress or wins we make as RT in game, will likely be wiped out by future events that lead to the The Era Indomitus. I might have mentioned this in spoiler tags before on this topic. Basically for any that wish to know (again), Cadia falls and is destroyed as a Planet. It was the main bastion keeping Chaos at Bay, since they had to travel through Cadian space. Or by going around it with cult summoning/corruption etc. Cadia had Necron tech that minimized the Eye of Terror too so no more Cadia = no more Necron wards and the Warp storms expanded (Great Rift) instantly and gave free reign to Chaos to attack anywhere, anytime.

The new Warp Storms and the Eye of Terror are enough to block and later just weaken the Emperor's light and Astormonicon, cutting off all areas North and East of the Eye of Terror and by extension the Great Rift. Like 1/2 of the Imperium, including the Koronus Expanse, for a good century or so (can't remember the exact timeframe). No safe Warp Travel. No long distanced communication. The warp influenced time itself in some places quickening it or slowing it down dramatically.

Meaning our Trade Empire along with the Korunus Expanse and events ingame, will likely be all for nought and break down. Or we get lucky and the Koronus Expanse experiences a slow down in time and is able to survive because of this. Like 10 days of no Warp Travel/Communication, but 100 years has gone by for the rest of the Galaxy that's "normal." The opposite would likely end human civilisation there and our RTs unless ingame we could find/invent something that allowed us to sustain the Expanse during this short "Dark Age." Regardless, there's too many threats in the Expanse to hold off with no backup from the Imperium proper. Then again it's a backwater for basically all factions soo... might not see too much action (doubt it).

Because of the location and the events I/others mentioned, GW can easily cast away any "non-canon" events ingame. They could also say they're 100% canon, but then say the Koronus Expanse is essentially no more so it doesn't matter lol.

[REhorror]

Balekai a écrit :

REhorror a écrit :

The setting and backstory so far follows the 40K canon.

But whatever happens IN the story might not be canon, or GW just doesn't care because it's about some demonic threat in some system outta nowhere, it's not a galaxy-level threat worthy to be mentioned.

Yeah. Like I said earlier canon is probably the wrong terminology right from the get go. That's an in house decision by GW officially and/or whether 40K fans "consider" the game part of "canon" unofficially if not.

The fact is as you say REhorror, the Koronus Expanse is literally a tiny tiny sliver of a sector on the edge of Imperial space. The far North, North West portion of the Calixis Sector I believe. Northwestish/behind the Eye of Terror. It's basically designed as an RP tabletop adventure setting out of the way of anything else lore wise, but super interesting. The Halo Stars Daliena mentioned for one, which are uncharted space of long dead Empire(s) that had truly Lovecraftian civilisations, races and technology. And the Halo devices that are a horror show. (IF THEY'RE IN GAME AND YOUR RT/COMPANIONS SKILLCHECK TO NOTICE ONE WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T PICK THEM UP!!). lol

Also (spoilers and possible downer on game events), Any progress or wins we make as RT in game, will likely be wiped out by future events that lead to the The Era Indomitus. I might have mentioned this in spoiler tags before on this topic. Basically for any that wish to know (again), Cadia falls and is destroyed as a Planet. It was the main bastion keeping Chaos at Bay, since they had to travel through Cadian space. Or by going around it with cult summoning/corruption etc. Cadia had Necron tech that minimized the Eye of Terror too so no more Cadia = no more Necron wards and the Warp storms expanded (Great Rift) instantly and gave free reign to Chaos to attack anywhere, anytime.

The new Warp Storms and the Eye of Terror are enough to block and later just weaken the Emperor's light and Astormonicon, cutting off all areas North and East of the Eye of Terror and by extension the Great Rift. Like 1/2 of the Imperium, including the Koronus Expanse, for a good century or so (can't remember the exact timeframe). No safe Warp Travel. No long distanced communication. The warp influenced time itself in some places quickening it or slowing it down dramatically.

Meaning our Trade Empire along with the Korunus Expanse and events ingame, will likely be all for nought and break down. Or we get lucky and the Koronus Expanse experiences a slow down in time and is able to survive because of this. Like 10 days of no Warp Travel/Communication, but 100 years has gone by for the rest of the Galaxy that's "normal." The opposite would likely end human civilisation there and our RTs unless ingame we could find/invent something that allowed us to sustain the Expanse during this short "Dark Age." Regardless, there's too many threats in the Expanse to hold off with no backup from the Imperium proper. Then again it's a backwater for basically all factions soo... might not see too much action (doubt it).

Because of the location and the events I/others mentioned, GW can easily cast away any "non-canon" events ingame. They could also say they're 100% canon, but then say the Koronus Expanse is essentially no more so it doesn't matter lol.

Thanks for the geographical explaination, I haven't dig that deep LOL.

That reminds me, have they made clear this is post-Fall or Cadia or not? I guess our wolfie is an old'rine and not a Primaris, correct?

EDIT: Oh man, I forget the part where the system is literally closed up from the rest of the galaxy, so this means it's a mystery box that is free for Owlcat to develop.

[Balekai]

REhorror a écrit :

Balekai a écrit :

/Snip

Thanks for the geographical explaination, I haven't dig that deep LOL.

That reminds me, have they made clear this is post-Fall or Cadia or not? I guess our wolfie is an old'rine and not a Primaris, correct?

EDIT: Oh man, I forget the part where the system is literally closed up from the rest of the galaxy, so this means it's a mystery box that is free for Owlcat to develop.

I was going to do a big post but thought "Hmmm,,, maybe ingame there's some actual dates of when it occurs. Like in the journal entries etc.

I went to load a game and saw 20VV.848AMRC.M41. M41 is what caught my interest. Is that a date? If so it would suggest Chapter 3 takes place in the 848th year of the 41 Millennium? The first save of a new game shows 13VV.841AMRC.M41 and moving up as the game goes on now and then (not all the time suggesting plot progression moving it forward). Possibly 7 years pass in between tutorial and the end of Chapter 3 if this is true.

I tried to make sense of it as a date with:

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Dating_System

There's no Check Number. The 00VV is maybe the Year Fraction? The 000AMRC could be the actual year. M00 being the millennium. So the game maybe takes place around 150 years more or less before everything hits the fan in 999.M41. With the latest things in the timeline being 012.M42ish.

Our Rogue Trader possibly has time to prepare for being completely cut off from Imperial space, Warp travel, Imperial communication, an onslaught of Chaos after 999.M41 if not before that and a whole bunch of other unstoppable threats. :p :P

I did some research and by 997.M41 the sector east of Calixis being Fenial Sector, went completely dark entirely after briefly reporting daemonic activity. Planet/Sector Chinchare goes completely dark with no contact after the Fall of Cadia. Likely due to the massive chaos incursions with the new realities with the Eye and the Great Rift.

Calixis itself I'm not sure, but the state of the other two sectors and the chaos invasions, tons of Warp Storms etc. don't bode well for Calixis and by extension, our little Koronus Expanse. Well it all doesn't matter because the Imperium at the latest timelines only has like 80 years left until the Golden Throne completely breaks. :D

New map of the Imperium (I think) as of 999.M41 and the 13th Black Crusade:
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Rift?file=Warhammer40kGalaxy.jpg

Top left area north of or NE of Calixis Sector is basically the Koronus Expanse I believe. The "Cicatrix Maledictum" is the Great Rift.

[Nightmarian]

Based on what Owlcat has said, it is indeed loosely canon but I mean it's not like you're ever going to see it brought up in a book or anything and given the fact there will be multiple paths I doubt it'll have any actual influence on the any part of the lore outside itself.