*SPOILERS HOXTON REVENGE* Traitor seems unplanned?

[shane3x]

So far, it seems like the traitor was never planned to be the traitor and the events of what happened just got backfilled.

There is zero indication this person knew the payday gang prior to heists in the game and that convieniently his heists were vague enough to have this story put in at the last minute. Traitors heists dont seem to indicate that they knew him prior to the first heist you do with this person.

We all know Overkill does a lot of stuff and then tries to backtrack with a lot of their content so it wouldn't suprise me if they have done this again since there are lots of gaps and holes with it all.

What do you guys think?

[Foxhood]

i don't understand your definition of "Unplanned". what range do you mean in that regard?

Since PD2's inception? well for that a maybe. so far we know Hoxton was never meant to get released in PD2's timeline...yet the game lasted long enough to get that far. PD2's long-term success certainly suprised Overkill. so i'm on the fence on wether it was planned from the beginning.

Really Last-minute like the past month or 2? eh no.. i wouldn't say they did as a last minute afterthought with having quickly rushed the VO actor into a booth going "quickly we need you say these lines for wee need to get this done within a few weeks!".

My guess is that they had this planned for quite a while. most likely since they were toying with the idea of having the players break out old hoxton probably a little after the game's release. Hector seems to fit the bill as being the most clever option of all since he has been a contracter/contact of bain since the first game and his heists are indeed a bit weird in police aggression. in the end tough i don't really care if it was "unplanned". I liked the twist of finding him of all people in the "safe"-room as it fitted the best with the existing world

[Munchies]

Ofcourse he is not.

All of this would not have happened if there wasn't BRING OLD HOXTON BACK people.

Nothing is planned. Everything is improvised and really badly done.

Hoxton Breakout is really good hesit because it is done to favor the people who liked PDTH. It has parts of Mercy Hospital and parts of Heat Street.

The new Hoxton Revenge is just to fill up the gap. Everything according the story of Hoxton feels out of place. Especially the last part they just got what the have and mashed it up, then patched it and released it.

No thought at all. Nothing clever. Nothing good.

And done the easy way. Make a stealth map and then just put spawn points for cops. Lazy and dull.

Right now I'm installing Killing Floor and I'm going to go back to playing the good games. Too bad I wasted 20 euro for this pile of crap.

I learned my lesson.

[ShadowAngel]

Ilija The Rental Sniper eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, the gold from PD:TH went to Hector, overdrill, Hector figured out who they were, and framed hox

It still doesn't make any sense. What did Hector getting out of all that? Hoxton is in Prison...then what? The Payday gang wasn't even competition to his drug dealing or prostitution ring.
There's no logic behind this at all.
"He's the traitor because...because...well, the cops show up so it makes sense!"

Ilija The Rental Sniper eredeti hozzászólása:

notice on how the police knew the gang were on Rats, Firestarter and Watchdogs at the very beginning,

Like i said: Framing Frame Day 2. Bain even calls it an ambush.
That just happens. Bain isn't the big mastermind he thinks he is, he's just a meth-smoking low-time criminal who makes mistakes (like hiring Alex, buying crap drills and all that)

Ilija The Rental Sniper eredeti hozzászólása:

Hector could of Anonymously called the cops to try to have them arrested

Again: What would Hector get out of that?
Nothing.
That's the main problem with this mess. Hector has no reason at all to act like that and risk his life for basically nothing.

Also: Where were his gangsters? You'd think they would be around his "Safe House" and show up to protect their Boss. But nope...nothing at all.
They could've put anybody in that Panic Room. Even Vlad and then twist the Heists around until it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all.
If it were the Elephant we'd have the same discussion and the "proof" would be the Framing Frame Day 2 ambush. See how silly that as an "argument" is?

[Barry Wheeler]

MrEly eredeti hozzászólása:

It doesnt seem unplanned. It is a great plot twist though. Nobody really saw it comming despite all the clues along the way. Thats a sign of pretty good story telling.

I disagree. It was a bad plot twist, because Hector is and was expendable. Nobody really cares about him. Most reactions about him being the rat go lilke "Oh, it's Hector, let's kill him" and then they forget about the whole thing. But I don't blame Overkill for this. Choosing Hector was the easy way out, cos they don't really need to change things around. But for me it's another sign of Overkill's lack of creativity and ambition as storytellers, which is okay anyway, because Payday 2 is not a story driven game anyway.

[Sunk Cost Fallacy]

before the release of armored transport
the train heist was originaly going to be hector contract
heres the proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5xIbVQAV2E

this proves that overkill intended to make more hector heists
but its all the community fault for yelling "OLD HOX NOW"

overkill had to drift the wheel and change plans

[Beeper23]

Ah man I got to say I wasn't expecting Hector but Bain or Gage.

I mean think about it with Bain we know he used to do the same stuff as the gang, knows about everyone in said gang, and has contacts around the world (maybe wanted everywhere too). He would not only have the info but he would also have some sort of reason being he may want out of the biz or things may have gotten too hot one way or the other.

Then we have Gage who knows Bain and the gang, supplies them with weapons/ammo, and gives them jobs. Also hes got a somewhat good reason as well being with a certain weapons dealer coming in and running him off. Like where was the "Save Gage and his stuff" mission? Oh the gang didn't help him in his time of need? They now working with the same people that not only kicked him out but maybe tried to kill him? I don't know about everyone here but that would sound like being backstabbed by the gang to me if I was in his place and the FBI could have been the only safe option.

And about it being done real quick and why its like the way it is I thought of all this while playing the breakout mission the first time and I'm an idiot lol... tho I guess making a wheelchair model would take time and finding some way to replace Bain would be hard... but they could have made it empty being Bain behind it and just make it a full on trap. Anyways it was free and I'm glad to at least get some sort of assassin type missions going in this game at least.

[Munchies]

Softy eredeti hozzászólása:

MrEly eredeti hozzászólása:

It doesnt seem unplanned. It is a great plot twist though. Nobody really saw it comming despite all the clues along the way. Thats a sign of pretty good story telling.

I disagree. It was a bad plot twist, because Hector is and was expendable. Nobody really cares about him. Most reactions about him being the rat go lilke "Oh, it's Hector, let's kill him" and then they forget about the whole thing. But I don't blame Overkill for this. Choosing Hector was the easy way out, cos they don't really need to change things around. But for me it's another sign of Overkill's lack of creativity and ambition as storytellers, which is okay anyway, because Payday 2 is not a story driven game anyway.

It's not a plot twist. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT A PLOT TWIST IS?

It's a fill up. Plot twist is when the major point in the plot radically changes. A fill up is when you have a plot hole and you put something there to fill the gap.

Hectors heists were the best from all the game except HLM and HB. There are no clues about that he is a rat. In Firestarter you can do all the days stealth so no cops will show at all. In Rats you are sent after the cops have found out to collect what is left. In Watchdogs you are sent to protect the batch of coke that has been compromised.

Everything is thought on the spot by amateurs who don't know anything about plot structure and writing.

[Flutterlove]

Rokk eredeti hozzászólása:

It would have been a lot more interesting if it was The Dentist.

Just think about it. The Dentist rats out Hoxton, so he can approach the rest of the PAYDAY gang and get them to do his dirty work, in return for Hoxton's freedom.

Then just give The Golden Grin to The Butcher, because Lion Game Lion is already working on the Golden Grin anyway.

Bain makes absolutely no sense, especially if you've played the first game. He's the PAYDAY gang's closest ally. Who would replace him?

Gage also sorta makes sense, but Hoxton didn't know him until PD2.

I think that idea would have worked rather well. Among the evidence, there could have been his plans for Golden Grin, and at the end screen, Bain could say something like, 'Some of these doccuments you stole have blueprints of a casino, and notes scrawled on it.'

[Beeper23]

Rokk eredeti hozzászólása:

It would have been a lot more interesting if it was The Dentist.

Just think about it. The Dentist rats out Hoxton, so he can approach the rest of the PAYDAY gang and get them to do his dirty work, in return for Hoxton's freedom.

Bain makes absolutely no sense, especially if you've played the first game. He's the PAYDAY gang's closest ally. Who would replace him?

Gage also sorta makes sense, but Hoxton didn't know him until PD2.

It would fit the Dentist to try that so I think it could work.

We're talking about people in a world where backstabing happens a lot so saying he is their closest ally doesn't really take him off the list (if anything it could also be used to prove it even more depending on how you look at it). Also Hoxton could've been the one to replace him. I also kinda rambled at the end of my post about how it could have been empty if it was Bain being what with him at his HQ (could have had it as an open mystery).

About Hoxton not knowing Gage... did he know the Dentist untill PD2? Because Hoxton not knowing them doesn't mean they don't know him.

[Barry Wheeler]

Grumpysaurus Rex eredeti hozzászólása:

Everything is thought on the spot by amateurs who don't know anything about plot structure and writing.

Well, yeah. I mean clearly Overkill is not putting their money on the writing department. They're not amateurs when it comes to making games, quite contrary, but this kind of lackluster storytelling is much too commonplace in the game industry. Even some bigger developers flat out deny the need for good writing in their games, even though recent years have shown that you can get pretty good results with story-driven games.

But we can all hope that Overkill will grow up. They've done well for themselves. Maybe they'll hire some decent writers for PD3 or the Walking Dead. They should, cos people will compare their WD with Telltale's efforts, and that's a comparison they're likely to lose at this rate.

[SerOctopun]

Hector has a few reasons to be the traitor. All his jobs are about destroying the Mendoza's Cartel. There is no point of doing over and over the same heists, so you can consider that the Mendoza's cartel is now eradicated, or really weak.
So once the Mendoza are off, the only obstacle for Hector is the Payday Gang, who are dealing with others contractors. Maybe he want to kill them to have the monopoly on drugs dealing in DC...

I'm just trying to find explanations, I know it seems stupid, but that could be an hint.
I have another idea, which is far more conceivable, even if it's still odd. Hector is a rat since the beginning. He could be a fake drug dealer, with a made up background brought by the FBI.

Then it would explain why all his jobs are about destroying the Mendoza's cartel : he's using gangsters to kill other gangsters...
Also, even if the Police is in every heist, in Firestarter, they are very quickly on place. You can think that they were prepared. But the majority of the contracts are stealthable, because Hector wants to be trusted by the gang enough, to collect infomartions bout them.

[Beeper23]

@Darkonchounet
Well Hector does come off as a moron to me and would seem like the type to put 2 and 2 together to get 8 and that the payday gang must die XD tho I like the idea you got with him not really being a drug dealer and just using the gang (think the CIA did something like this at one point in... also the KKK but err... yeeeaaah).
About the stealth in his missions someone in here pointed out that when Bains in control you can do it in stealth but when Hector sets it up is... well a set up almost.

[F1st Br34k3r]

♥Ashley♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

shane3x eredeti hozzászólása:

Care to eloborate? So far it seems they just took some random name from the first game and fleshed it out. I doubt they went "Oh hey lets make Hector really vague in the first game so then Hoxton can get captured and continue making him vague so that the community can release hoxton and find out who captured him". Overkill doesnt seem to work that far ahead they do so much just to have something they fill stuff in later rather then this being planned all along.

Hectors heists also explain a lot and hint it. Watchdogs, you're ambushed. Firestarter, he asked you to film yourself committing the crime. Rats, day 1 and 2 you're ambushed by the cops.

The only time you don't get abushed is when bain takes control and the heist is not organised by Hector himself. Such as the FBI raid to take the server.

Edit: You can also expect Hector tipped off the bikers in day 1 big oil. It shows that the bikers are coke dealers, which Hector is as well. They also sometime trade with the same gang that Hector deals with. So you can imagine, Hector knows the bikers.

In all honesty, it's clear that Hoxton was supposed to have nothing to do with Hector's betrayal, they simply forced Hoxton into the story, and it hurts how obvious and lazy that is.

[shane3x]

Dentist as mentioned before would seem a better fit, Dentist isnt someone who gets his name out there and would make sense if he wants to get payday gangs help for free but anyway seems like general consensus so far is that this was all hastily put together with vague connections so far.

[puzzlefox]

The Firestarter heist makes no sense now.

The only way Hector being the rat makes sense is if on some of the heists like Rats and Firestarter, he acted on his own and without the FBI knowing that he was involved... somehow.