What overkill are doing right now, is how you kill a game

[Cmd.Archer]

Come on, the DLC is excessive, you alienate players that don't want to buy it and is it really necessary to churn it out every 5 mins? I remember playing this game when it first came out, the road was bumpy and the game felt unfinished, overtime the holes were patched and it became a pleasure to play, but in my opinion (and i think others may agree), when it came to Armoured Transport/Big Bank and the Gage Weapon Mod Packs, it started to make the game feel redundant because there was more focus on getting these DLC packs because it felt like the game was incomplete without them.

Granted the saying goes "If you don't want it, don't buy it" but for the sake of respecting your customers, at least tone down the output of DLC, it's nearly put me off of this game, among many of the other problems with the game. I eagarly await the fanboys ready to flame someone who waited for the very first day the game was released and who thought stealthing Framing Frames with patch 10 and below gear/problems was one hell of an achievement.

[qweqweqwe]

Maybe a factor for the game to NOT DIE is the crashes.

Rats DW Pro.7 Bags.Day 2 ,Gangsters fled so no resistance,BAM HOST CRASHES.

Prior to that,HM DW D2.Vault open.Host(different one) crashes.GODS.
Maybe the new MasterFugi with Raven & some shotty skills im using is 2stronk?

♥♥♥♥ this,imma sleep.

(I know it seriously wont die,but gods would it be too much to ask for these crashes to not happen? .___.
Granted,i dont crash myself,but hte hosts crashing...oh ♥♥♥♥ ._.)

[c4ndlejack]

♥Ashley♥ の投稿を引用：

Souzooka の投稿を引用：

It's a good thing rings don't affect how many enemies you can frag though.

So you're saying that you want Payday 2 to go free to play and charge only for cosmetic items? So that instead of getting new heists, new guns, new things to blow up, we get new cosmetics?

So free to play games never get new quests, items, or enemies?

[Ashley]

Souzooka の投稿を引用：

♥Ashley♥ の投稿を引用：

So you're saying that you want Payday 2 to go free to play and charge only for cosmetic items? So that instead of getting new heists, new guns, new things to blow up, we get new cosmetics?

I'd be half-pressed to say it would be better that we didn't get new weapons -- not because new weapons are necessarily bad, but because gameplay balance has been ruined in order to get money from players.

Another common thing that pops up is people arguing about DLC guns being better then the "free" ones. This is more of a Lose:Lose situation. If DLC guns are balanced or remotely underperform compared to the standard guns, people would be "outraged" and would tell everyone not to buy the DLC. On the other hand, making them too good people argue and become outraged at it being "pay to win". The reality is, not all the DLC guns are good, it just gives you more variety. With more variety you are bound to find better weapons for yourself as well as plenty that you hate as well. People just like to remember the guns THEY like, making them forget the existance of other less useful DLC weapons.

[Souzooka]

♥Ashley♥ の投稿を引用：

Souzooka の投稿を引用：

I'd be half-pressed to say it would be better that we didn't get new weapons -- not because new weapons are necessarily bad, but because gameplay balance has been ruined in order to get money from players.

Another common thing that pops up is people arguing about DLC guns being better then the "free" ones. This is more of a Lose:Lose situation. If DLC guns are balanced or remotely underperform compared to the standard guns, people would be "outraged" and would tell everyone not to buy the DLC. On the other hand, making them too good people argue and become outraged at it being "pay to win". The reality is, not all the DLC guns are good, it just gives you more variety. With more variety you are bound to find better weapons for yourself as well as plenty that you hate as well. People just like to remember the guns THEY like, making them forget the existance of other less useful DLC weapons.

I'd think that argument would be more viable if there was a free LMG, sniper, or grenade launcher. And when you look at something like SMGs or pistols (e.g. Sig 40 > Crosskill, Patchett L2A1 SMG > Any SMG) it's definitely evident that the DLC weapons are straight upgrades. Additionally, without DLC assault rifles are definitely much less viable altogether, especially because the CAR-4 has been made an overpowered powerhouse with no disadvantages (perfect accuracy, damage, stability with a huge ammo pool and no downsides) thanks to DLC.

[Arthur]

Honestly I dont care about the frequency they release dlcs, since I do not buy them anymore at full price.

[ChemicalBacon]

Souzooka の投稿を引用：

♥Ashley♥ の投稿を引用：

Another common thing that pops up is people arguing about DLC guns being better then the "free" ones. This is more of a Lose:Lose situation. If DLC guns are balanced or remotely underperform compared to the standard guns, people would be "outraged" and would tell everyone not to buy the DLC. On the other hand, making them too good people argue and become outraged at it being "pay to win". The reality is, not all the DLC guns are good, it just gives you more variety. With more variety you are bound to find better weapons for yourself as well as plenty that you hate as well. People just like to remember the guns THEY like, making them forget the existance of other less useful DLC weapons.

I'd think that argument would be more viable if there was a free LMG, sniper, or grenade launcher. And when you look at something like SMGs or pistols (e.g. Sig 40 > Crosskill, Patchett L2A1 SMG > Any SMG) it's definitely evident that the DLC weapons are straight upgrades, and without DLC assault rifles are definitely much less viable altogether, especially because the CAR-4 has been made an overpowered powerhouse with no disadvantages (perfect accuracy, damage, stability with a huge ammo pool and no downsides) thanks to DLC.

+ yeah i agree

If they gave everyone a standard vanilla weapon for free and then kept the better weapons (for example, LMGs) behind a paywall I would be happy. But some dlc is a "buy me or fail a heist over and over"

[ninja crouton]

Chemicalbacon の投稿を引用：

ninja crouton の投稿を引用：

Ugh, here we go again.

1. I did read. That's why I responded.
2. So you're saying that because YOU want all the DLC in bundles, everybody should want it that way? Plus, they already have the bundle packs, or did you miss that completely?
3. There is no pack as small as you are saying, so I don't know what you are talking about there.
4. What developers have done the same DLC model as Ovk? I think none of them. There are similar ones, but none are the same. So saying that other companies have failed doing the DLC model is a moot point. Especially since a LOT of companies have done just fine with DLC models
5. Do you have a source for the "only 4 packs" statement? And even if it is true, would you rather them have stopped updating their game and just left it as-is, allowing it to die?
6. Bethesda is a rich company with a huge fanbase that will always buy their next game. Overkill doesn't have that type of security yet, so they have to add DLC to their current game
7. You are asking for them to make expansions, not small DLC. They're completely different styles and each one has its merits. Just because you prefer one over the other, does not mean that it is better.
8. And finally, the volume doesn't matter. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY ALL OF IT. Much less any of it. If you really want all the things that actually change the game, it still comes out to about £15. Couple that with the £20 tag at release of the base game, and it is still less than just the base game price of most AAA titles.

Post Script: Stop telling people that you are ignoring them because they are not reading. You are wrong, we are reading. We just disagree with you

Ah good, you finally decided to read what i said

1) No you didn't, I responded to you at which point you said

Congratulations on assuming that I (or anybody else, for that matter) didn't read your post. You said absolutely nothing to refute my point, and instead claimed that I didn't read, so you could ignore my answer. I'm sorry that I am right.

Funny thing is you said I didn't refute your point when i clearly did.

I already said that DLC is short term and that you piss people off doing too much of it
You need to expand, not pump out the same crap every month. Many companies who ahve gone down the DLC route have failed and in some cases gone into liquidation.

You will find them "retaining" customers for the most part is making people angry

And yes, I know game development is expensive, which is why you start making the game before your first game release so the first game funds the second.

So really all you did was just QQ at me counter arguing you for addressing your points with answers you couldn't argue against until now.

2) Point out in my posts where I said I wanted any of the DLC bundles. I didn't. I ahve no idea where you got this from. Probably from not reading.

3) Can't tell if in denial or not, there are plenty of small dlc packs out there that belong in a larger pack and not stand alone.

4) EA for a start. THQ went down this route by trying to sell cosmetics packs of DLC as well and went into liquidation for it.
Train sim also springs to mind to name a few.

5) There is nothing wrong with DLC as long as it isn't small packs and they change a lot. And I don't have a source

6) Bethesda isn't as big as you think it is, look at the steam stats and you will see the only most played game by Bethesda is SKyrim, and thats a tiny population compared to Payday2 which normally sits in the top 15

7) It's not what i prefer, its what makes the community happy.

8) You forget that many of the achivements are lcoked behind all this DLC
Many people like to get 100% completion via achivements and O.K actively block this.

£35 for a two year old game? Pushing it.

My post script
I'm telling people they are not reading because they are not reading.
Every thread is the same "DON'T BUY IT THEN" or "IT KEEPS THE GAME ALIVE" comments.

1. I am ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sick and tired of you telling me I didn't read. I did. So ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stop it already, because all you are doing is annoying everybody. I pointed out that a good business model is based off of customer retention, not acquisition, and you said otherwise. But you are wrong. Every single business owner will agree with me.
2.

Personally I would prefer to pay for a bundle package rather than small and stupid packs like 1 mask and 2 attachments

There it is
3. No pack is as small as 1 mask and 2 attachments. I am right once again
4. So EA allows you to play their DLC without owning it? That's news to me. Yeah, THQ failed, but most companies do DLC now, and they are almost all doing fine
5. Once again, you are asking for large DLC. Payday does a small DLC model. It's just a different style
6. Bethesda makes AAA titles, that sell for twice as much as Payday did at release. And then they release large DLC that cost 3-4x as much as one Payday DLC does. They are more about large purchases, and people buy it (even though it is expensive) because they are trusted to make a good game. They also have the resources to work on many games at the same time
7. In case you didn't notice, Overkill has been doing quite fine with their model. That's why they keep doing it. The vast majority of people look at the DLC and either say, that's cool, I want it, or, Not interested. It is just a small percentage (people like you) who get upset. Sadly, the upset people tend to be more vocal, because it would be boring if everybody was just like "oh, that's cool, not a big deal" on forums.
8. Achievments don't do anything for the game. If people are so compulsive that they HAVE TO get 100% on it, that is their problem, not Overkill's. If this leads them to make purchases that they don't have the money for, they should seek help rather than blaming the company who took advantage of their compulsion.

And lastly, in case you missed it, THERE ARE DLC BUNDLES FOR PAYDAY
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/54408/
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/54409/
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/54410/

[ninja crouton]

Mother_Flowers#WhoRattedOnHogan の投稿を引用：

ninja crouton の投稿を引用：

Ninja trying to put sense into an absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥

There. I just wrapped up all those long lines of text into 2 short sentences

Yeh. I kinda feel like giving up. I want to go play fallout

[Souzooka]

I think I should add that even though there are DLC packs with bad weapons, it doesn't change that there's a full game price's worth of DLC that is full of straight-up upgrades.

And when you buy this DLC don't think you're not going to be made to buy more DLC with better stats later on so you have the best stuff. Got the Hotline Miami pack for the SMGs? Historical Pack wants to talk.

We shouldn't be paying for PAYDAY 2 again just to buy some numbers.

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

Based on what I've seen in this thread, it isn't Payday 2 but humanity that's on its way out...

[C. Black]

The only thing that is excessive is Bonnie..

[Malidictus]

Souzooka の投稿を引用：

And when you buy this DLC don't think you're not going to be made to buy more DLC with better stats later on so you have the best stuff. Got the Hotline Miami pack for the SMGs? Historical Pack wants to talk.

Yes, the group think compells me to buy those DLCs. Resistance is futile, I must purchase.

Or, you know, not. The only DLCs I've bought so far have been either the ones I really really wanted (LMGs) or else were on deep discount (so for 1-2 Euro). Frankly - and I apologise if this comes across as rude - but if you can't not buy DLCs then you don't deserve financial independence in the first place. Being financially independent REQUIRES that you not buy things you don't need or want.

[ChemicalBacon]

ninja crouton の投稿を引用：

Chemicalbacon の投稿を引用：

*snip*

1. I am ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sick and tired of you telling me I didn't read. I did. So ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stop it already, because all you are doing is annoying everybody. I pointed out that a good business model is based off of customer retention, not acquisition, and you said otherwise. But you are wrong. Every single business owner will agree with me.
2.

Personally I would prefer to pay for a bundle package rather than small and stupid packs like 1 mask and 2 attachments

There it is
3. No pack is as small as 1 mask and 2 attachments. I am right once again
4. So EA allows you to play their DLC without owning it? That's news to me. Yeah, THQ failed, but most companies do DLC now, and they are almost all doing fine
5. Once again, you are asking for large DLC. Payday does a small DLC model. It's just a different style
6. Bethesda makes AAA titles, that sell for twice as much as Payday did at release. And then they release large DLC that cost 3-4x as much as one Payday DLC does. They are more about large purchases, and people buy it (even though it is expensive) because they are trusted to make a good game. They also have the resources to work on many games at the same time
7. In case you didn't notice, Overkill has been doing quite fine with their model. That's why they keep doing it. The vast majority of people look at the DLC and either say, that's cool, I want it, or, Not interested. It is just a small percentage (people like you) who get upset. Sadly, the upset people tend to be more vocal, because it would be boring if everybody was just like "oh, that's cool, not a big deal" on forums.
8. Achievments don't do anything for the game. If people are so compulsive that they HAVE TO get 100% on it, that is their problem, not Overkill's. If this leads them to make purchases that they don't have the money for, they should seek help rather than blaming the company who took advantage of their compulsion.

And lastly, in case you missed it, THERE ARE DLC BUNDLES FOR PAYDAY
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/54408/
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/54409/
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/54410/

1) Hell, just read. It isn't hard.
You forget that a business model is much more than what you stated.
You didn't even state the tip of the iceberg

And as somone who owns their own business, I do nto agree with you at all. I think you have no idea how these things work honestly :)

2) Congratulations on failing to see it was an example, not a refrence to any dlc.
3) Congratulations on not being able to read the context of my post, sorry, you are wrong. Once again.

4) We are talking about the volume of dlc, not playign it. Once again. Not reading.
5) A differant style that is proven to be worse
6) So what? They are bigger and they know how to treat their customers

A few things O.K could learn

7) Yeah, because fanboys don't seem to see the problem with this model and O.K pushing themselves off the cliff

8) some people want to 100% completion, its overkill problem for locking it away

Thanks, i already knew there were dlc bundles for payday, I enver said I didn't. Once again. Not reading :/

[ChemicalBacon]

Mother_Flowers#WhoRattedOnHogan の投稿を引用：

ninja crouton の投稿を引用：

Ninja trying to put sense into an absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥

There. I just wrapped up all those long lines of text into 2 short sentences

+ 1 engarged fanboy who can't argue :c

Just because you can't argue doesn't mean you need to get salty

[Souzooka]

Malidictus の投稿を引用：

Souzooka の投稿を引用：

And when you buy this DLC don't think you're not going to be made to buy more DLC with better stats later on so you have the best stuff. Got the Hotline Miami pack for the SMGs? Historical Pack wants to talk.

Yes, the group think compells me to buy those DLCs. Resistance is futile, I must purchase.

Or, you know, not. The only DLCs I've bought so far have been either the ones I really really wanted (LMGs) or else were on deep discount (so for 1-2 Euro). Frankly - and I apologise if this comes across as rude - but if you can't not buy DLCs then you don't deserve financial independence in the first place. Being financially independent REQUIRES that you not buy things you don't need or want.

The problem comes from the pay 2 win model, no whether or not you want to buy said DLC. Ashely said that there are bad DLC weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that DLC weapons/mods beat out free weapons in every category (except possibly secondary shotguns, one can argue). If I bought a game and then it turned out to be competitive in the game I needed to buy the game again, but this time in DLC, that would be a bait and switch and this is the issue.

So you bought the game; want to be the best heister? Well I've got some weapon packs from Gage ;)