Viable Crook dodge build

[Healing water]

Hello,

I have been doing some experimenting with Crook Dodging since the perk deck was introduced to Payday 2, but I have never really found a viable build that would really make having a Hybrid armor and dodge usable in tough enviroment such as on Deathwish. Although after many various builds and experiment, I think I have found a very powerful skill build.

To do a quick analyze on what we can benefit from actually Crook Dodging, that is basically that we have an armor that allows us to take a few extra hits before it is depleted and next shots starts taking down our health instead, with a decent dodge chance every now and then.

Stat comparison with the intended skills for the build and ect.

Suit
Armor: 20
Dodge: 50/65/75
Concealment: 30
This will effectively make you dodge a lot of bullets that come your way, but once you take a hit from pretty much any unit that can be found within Payday 2, your armor will be depleted.

Ballistic Vest
Armor: 90
Dodge: 30/45/55
Concealment: 23
Above 60-70 armor will allow you to take a shot from HRT, Taser and Veterans without having your armor depleted in one shot. This is very effective versus Gensec and Tans.

Light Ballistic Vest
Armor: 70
Dodge: 35/50/60
Concealment: 26
Slightly higher chance, but unable to tank a Taser/Veteran hit unless underdog kicks in, which will tank it just barely, but bullseye skill will help out

Heavy Ballistic Vest
Armor: 105
Dodge: 25/40/50
Concealment: 21
105 will allow you to tank a Green and Skulldoser hit without having your armor depleted

http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/elIEFBda:tspMJEfGbcDa:ggCa:fqroKHefGbCDa:ibcdea:pO8::

With this build, I am currently using these key skills:
Low Blow
Sneaky Bastard
Bullseye (Good for getting temp-armor when current is depleted)
Bulletproof
Ammo Specialist Aced
Thickskin aced

This will effectively give you a decent dodge chance and armor for your Ballistic vest that increases your chance to survive overall, here is the build:
http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/elIEFBda:tspMJEfGbcDa:ggCa:fqroKHefGbCDa:ibcdea:pO8::

Biggest drawback about this skill build is that you can't really be much of a support player, big skill point investment to increase your chance of surviving. Your weapons will be severly weak because you must have your concealment stat as high as possible to get the extra dodge and critical chance.

The Ballistic Vest's decent armor and dodge chance, combined with 50% damage reduction and including Swan song if things go sour makes a pretty decent revival by hand skill combination. If you are full HP and there aren't any bulldoser or snipers around, you should easily be able to revive an teammate in the middle of a wave or something like that, give the build a try and lemme know what you think about it.

Note: I may have got the dodge chance on HBV wrong, and the concealment stats in general, they should be higher I think but you'll see that yourself in-game.

[Stonepaq]

I'll always do a Crook Masterdodger build with Inspire aced + Sneaky bas'tard aced too

[grishenko [NOR]]

It isnt really the lower dodge chance that kills builds with vest, it is the fact that you need to ace low blow because light balistic vest gets you above 4 in detection risk (I guess primary with 30 conceal and secondary with 30 conceal can cut it - but that would be terrible weapons ;-) On death wish you really dont want to use those extra 8 points for low blow and sneaky bast, when those points could have been used for something else...

[ninja crouton]

Originally posted by LOUD DW grishenko NOR:

It isnt really the lower dodge chance that kills builds with vest, it is the fact that you need to ace low blow because light balistic vest gets you above 4 in detection risk (I guess primary with 30 conceal and secondary with 30 conceal can cut it - but that would be terrible weapons ;-) On death wish you really dont want to use those extra 8 points for low blow and sneaky bast, when those points could have been used for something else...

^ This. 16 points is a lot of points on a build. Could be spent elsewhere, but with a vest you have to ace them. Sure crook is DW viable if you are good enough, but it's just not ideal.

[hirou]

Which weapons do you use? I only found CAR4+Gruber/Judge combination viable for Sneaky Bastard/Low Blow Basic, which turns me away from these kind of builds. In addition, Gruber makes you heavily invest in MM to make itself useful

[Pyrofisho]

Woah woah wait. How are you getting freaking 60 dodge with the lightweight vest? and 75 with the suit?

[hirou]

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

Woah woah wait. How are you getting freaking 60 dodge with the lightweight vest? and 75 with the suit?

I assume he's listing the dodge value for crouching/sprinting

[Pyrofisho]

Originally posted by hirou:

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

Woah woah wait. How are you getting freaking 60 dodge with the lightweight vest? and 75 with the suit?

I assume he's listing the dodge value for crouching/sprinting

Ah, that would make sense actually.

[Healing water]

It is essentionally just a Fugitive Technician build with combination of the extra dodge bonus and armor from Fugitive, while combining it with Technicians bulletproof that will put your armor value high enough to tank certain bullets without having your armor depleted instantly

[Magpie]

Your build isn't good, there's a lot wrong with it:
-No endurance for a dodge build
-Oppressor aced, you shouldn't have this skill, ever
-Only basic transporter
-Lots of points invested for basic ammo bags, arguable the worst equipment and you don't even have it aced
-Silent drills
-Bulletproof isn't good for LWB, it only adds 25 armour. If you aren't using LWB, then your losing a lot of concealment and therefore a lot of effectiveness from low blow and sneaky bastard
-No fast hands at all, this should be aced
-No cat burglar
-Brother's keeper, the worst skill in the game imo
-Bullseye isn't good. When your armour is down, take cover and if your armour is down and you aren't anywhere near cover, you aren't playing well
-Lots of filler in the fugitive tree

Here's what I've done to change it
http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mda:eDa:tOIJeFGbCDa:gECda:froKMJeGCDa:ibcdea:pO8::
It has now got:
-Basic endurance, no need to ace it as the mastermind should have it and AFAIK they don't stack
-Aced transporter
-The choice of FAKs or C4
-Fast hands aced
-Cat burglar basic
-No more bullseye
-A lot of filler skills from fugitive removed

Now, there's 14 points left over, here's what I'd do with them, though now this really comes down to preference:
-Aced die hard
-Aced stun resistance
-Aced underdog
-Basic shinobi
-Basic cleaner

[Klokw3rk]

http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mSnLHjeGBcDa:eiEDa:gfCda:fROKjEGbCDa:ibcdea::

heres the build i use

i take a he judge no barrell extensiosn as back up with an amr for primary specced for jsut under 25 concealemnt with LBV

[=SB= Malo]

@OP > Wrong topic :
http://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/8/620703493322443224/

[Healing water]

Oh boy Twisty. You haven't played Deathwish enough to realize that bulletproof does everything right with this build. It will put your armor about a value that will allow you to take additional hit without having your armor depleted from Hostage Rescue Units, Veterans and Tasers. Sadly you must wear a HBV in order to tank a Green and Skulldoser hit, but those units are easily avoided.

Basic endurance is hardly useful for this build and my playstyle since I will be crouching behind cover a lot, remember. This is DW, not around casually overkill.

"-Bullseye isn't good. When your armour is down, take cover and if your armour is down and you aren't anywhere near cover, you aren't playing well"
Because there are many various situations where we can't simple be behind cover of many various reasons, since this build relies a lot on RNG, you do at least have some sort of fail-safe mechanic with bullseye if you pay attention to your surrounding, this is a extremely powerful skill for dodge builds since once your armor is actually depleted. You can safely pop a headshot to regain your armor and be back in the safe zone.

Oppressor is pretty decent when firing at a lot of enemies. instead of having them fire back at you, they will take cover instead, which takes a lot of heat off of you.

I don't know man, just by reading your respond makes me think you have barely experimented in deathwish, such as not knowing enemy weapon damages and importance of bulletproof in this build. Look, If you don't have bulletproof.. You will most of the time have your armor depleted in one hit so you may as well go full dodge.
Fast hands aren't a must but can sure help in certain heists, transporter ace is good enough since most vital bag carrying objectives are so heavy that you are better off carrying it rather than throwing it around.

It all comes down to playstyle really and experience with a couple of the skills within this build, but there are a lot of optional paths. I went Enforcer because I wanted to go with ammo and some slight tanking skills. You may also go Mastermind with Doctor bag or just First Aid Kit on Fugitive. Remember, you are essentionally a Technician Fugitive build which makes it extremely powerful.

Please actually try the build out instead of all the theorycrafting, I've found this build to be rather OP in my opinion. It is a large skill point investment, but if you play right. There should be absolutely no way you should die. And I don't go by the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that "You should never die" cause there are so many various sitautions where full dodge and full armor will find themselves at a disadvantage where as this dodge and armor build is so strong that you should live through it.

[Healing water]

Originally posted by =SB= Malo:

@OP > Wrong topic :
http://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/8/620703493322443224/

Please take your inexperience elsewhere. go bother some Deathwish lobbies and get kicked out. You are just a waste of time here, that's for sure.

I've have had some really good feedback in this topic, but yours is rather cheap and a waste since you don't offer any reason as to why you would say its a bad build. assuming by the link you pasted.

It would appear that you haven't really ever given this build a try, it is extremely overpowered since it offers a decent dodge chance and amor.
How is not 50% dodge chance while crouched and 75 armor good?

Payday 2 community would be a much better please without ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like yourself.

[Healing water]

I noticed that the link I had put up earlier didn't include ammo bags aced, but it had 8 skill points remained. I must've copied the wrong link from my history log. Anyways, here is the one with the aced ammo bags:
http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/eLIEFBda:tspMJEfGbcDa:ggCa:fqroKHefGbCDa:ibcdea:pO8::

[Magpie]

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

Oh boy Twisty. You haven't played Deathwish enough to realize that bulletproof does everything right with this build. It will put your armor about a value that will allow you to take additional hit without having your armor depleted from Hostage Rescue Units, Veterans and Tasers. Sadly you must wear a HBV in order to tank a Green and Skulldoser hit, but those units are easily avoided.

Yeah, I hardly play DW, apart from it being the only difficulty play. But whatever, just immediately assume that anyone that thinks your bad build is bad has no experience with DW. An extra hit doesn't mean anything when you can still only take 2 hits. You speak of DW experience yet talk about greendozers, which only spawn with special circumstances.

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

Basic endurance is hardly useful for this build and my playstyle since I will be crouching behind cover a lot, remember. This is DW, not around casually overkill.

"-Bullseye isn't good. When your armour is down, take cover and if your armour is down and you aren't anywhere near cover, you aren't playing well"
Because there are many various situations where we can't simple be behind cover of many various reasons, since this build relies a lot on RNG, you do at least have some sort of fail-safe mechanic with bullseye if you pay attention to your surrounding, this is a extremely powerful skill for dodge builds since once your armor is actually depleted. You can safely pop a headshot to regain your armor and be back in the safe zone.

So, those two paragraphs are contradictory, which is it, you're going to be crouching behind cover a lot or you're going to often be in situations where there isn't any cover? It's simple anyway, if you aren't in a position where you can get into cover easily, you are playing bad. You don't play DW running around in the open and then getting headshots when your armour is down, unless you have the mentality of "I use dodge therefore I'm invincible."

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

Oppressor is pretty decent when firing at a lot of enemies. instead of having them fire back at you, they will take cover instead, which takes a lot of heat off of you.

There is absolutely no reason to take this over acing transporter.

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

I don't know man, just by reading your respond makes me think you have barely experimented in deathwish, such as not knowing enemy weapon damages and importance of bulletproof in this build. Look, If you don't have bulletproof.. You will most of the time have your armor depleted in one hit so you may as well go full dodge.

That's why rogue/suit is superior to crook/vest.

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

Fast hands aren't a must but can sure help in certain heists, transporter ace is good enough since most vital bag carrying objectives are so heavy that you are better off carrying it rather than throwing it around.

You're only better off carry bags for anything heavy than money.

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

It all comes down to playstyle really and experience with a couple of the skills within this build, but there are a lot of optional paths. I went Enforcer because I wanted to go with ammo and some slight tanking skills. You may also go Mastermind with Doctor bag or just First Aid Kit on Fugitive. Remember, you are essentionally a Technician Fugitive build which makes it extremely powerful.

What does being fugitech have to do with taking ammo bags, a equipment that's worse than the rest except for sentries? If you want tanking skills, go techforcer.

Originally posted by Wild Wolfy:

Please actually try the build out instead of all the theorycrafting, I've found this build to be rather OP in my opinion. It is a large skill point investment, but if you play right. There should be absolutely no way you should die. And I don't go by the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that "You should never die" cause there are so many various sitautions where full dodge and full armor will find themselves at a disadvantage where as this dodge and armor build is so strong that you should live through it.

You've now contradicted yourself again, this time you contradicted yourself the very sentence after whatever you said. You're build isn't OP, it's almost cringe worthy, and when I offered you help, you instead question my experience with DW. I'm not "theory crafting", I've spent time looking at and using EACH skill with the common archetypes of builds.

But whatever, now I know that you're just some random that thinks that they're the greatest and whenever someone says something you don't like you'll just claim that they are worse than you.

EDIT: And since skill is apparently so important to you, here's a screenshot of me soloing HB DW with 1 kill.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=366140786