FPS Issues

[Inception]

When I try to play a game of payday 2 my frames are usually fine when I load in. In certain areas of the game such as entering the Big Bank drops my fps from a stable 60 to 25. I've searched the forums and I have seen people say the game isn't optimised well or its down to bad specs but I think I should at least be able to run Payday 2. Does anybody know why this happens? It also occurs despite any settings I change, whether it be increased or decreased.

My specs are as follows (yes its a laptop):
Ryzen 5 5600H
RX 6500M 4GB VRAM
16GB RAM

[Vitalius]

The fps on my system (with a CPU a bit weaker on the single-threaded side, but the same multi-threaded score as your one) on that heist varies from 200+ at the spawn point (when you stand outside and look through the doors), to 150-200 when you run around inside the bank (ultra settings). Therefore your fps should be even higher (at least 250+).


First of all, make sure you're using the correct ingame display refresh rate.
You can set that manually (%LocalAppData%\PAYDAY 2\renderer_settings.xml -> refresh_rate = "xxx") or via a "Refresh Rate Checker" mod, which adds supported refresh rates in the ingame resolution menu.

Make sure you set the game to use optimization for modern CPU's (Steam -> Library -> PD2 -> Properties -> General -> Selected Launch Option).

And make sure you switch to a higher Windows power plan (as the game is mainly CPU bound, and laptops drop the CPU frequency on laptops with lower power plans, with Ryzen CPU's especially).

And also make sure that you have the laptop is plugged into AC - as most newer models (again, sadly, especially crucial for Ryzens) will drop their CPU frequency when you run them on the battery, even if you switch to the highest power plan.

And turn off the vsync and frame rate limit (set it to unlimited) in the ingame options (Options -> Video -> Advanced).
While you're there, you can also consider turning off "Flush GPU". Although it lowers the input lag a bit, it impacts fps (1%/0.1% especially).
And if you're playing loud - you can lower the corpse limit (to, say, "Increased"), as it heavily tanks the fps when there are a lot of bodies around (as this game is using an ancient x32 engine, and can utilize only 4 CPU threads).

And try to check where's the bottleneck - as it could be on the CPU side (power plan, frequency), as well as on the GPU side (fps limit, broken vsync, ect).
Best way to see that is a monitoring software with an overlay (as you must see that in realtime, when the game is running). I use MSI Afterburner for that, for example.


It's hard to find the culprit w/o screenshots with monitoring overlay on then, yet I'd say that the game is pretty light on the resources, and if properly set up - can run on even a potato. I even played it on a very old GT 240 (after selling my previous GPU, and while waiting for my new GPU to be shipped), getting 100+ fps even on that ridiculous GPU. =)

[Inception]

Originally posted by Vitalius:

The fps on my system (with a CPU a bit weaker on the single-threaded side, but the same multi-threaded score as your one) on that heist varies from 200+ at the spawn point (when you stand outside and look through the doors), to 150-200 when you run around inside the bank (ultra settings). Therefore your fps should be even higher (at least 250+).


First of all, make sure you're using the correct ingame display refresh rate.
You can set that manually (%LocalAppData%\PAYDAY 2\renderer_settings.xml -> refresh_rate = "xxx") or via a "Refresh Rate Checker" mod, which adds supported refresh rates in the ingame resolution menu.

Make sure you set the game to use optimization for modern CPU's (Steam -> Library -> PD2 -> Properties -> General -> Selected Launch Option).

And make sure you switch to a higher Windows power plan (as the game is mainly CPU bound, and laptops drop the CPU frequency on laptops with lower power plans, with Ryzen CPU's especially).

And also make sure that you have the laptop is plugged into AC - as most newer models (again, sadly, especially crucial for Ryzens) will drop their CPU frequency when you run them on the battery, even if you switch to the highest power plan.

And turn off the vsync and frame rate limit (set it to unlimited) in the ingame options (Options -> Video -> Advanced).
While you're there, you can also consider turning off "Flush GPU". Although it lowers the input lag a bit, it impacts fps (1%/0.1% especially).
And if you're playing loud - you can lower the corpse limit (to, say, "Increased"), as it heavily tanks the fps when there are a lot of bodies around (as this game is using an ancient x32 engine, and can utilize only 4 CPU threads).

And try to check where's the bottleneck - as it could be on the CPU side (power plan, frequency), as well as on the GPU side (fps limit, broken vsync, ect).
Best way to see that is a monitoring software with an overlay (as you must see that in realtime, when the game is running). I use MSI Afterburner for that, for example.


It's hard to find the culprit w/o screenshots with monitoring overlay on then, yet I'd say that the game is pretty light on the resources, and if properly set up - can run on even a potato. I even played it on a very old GT 240 (after selling my previous GPU, and while waiting for my new GPU to be shipped), getting 100+ fps even on that ridiculous GPU. =)

After trying what you've said, there haven't been any changes to my frame rate that I've noticed at all. I have taken a screenshot of my monitoring overlay though, but since I cant upload one I'll just type it below:

GPU: 57% - 0rpm
MEM: 769MB
CPU: 55 degrees
RAM: 10361MB
D3D9: 33 FPS (looking at the main populated area of big bank) 31.3ms frametime

Kind of bummed out that Payday 2 is struggling to run on my laptop when it's able to handle other more demanding games at a stable 60 or above :/

[Vitalius]

Originally posted by Inception:

I have taken a screenshot of my monitoring overlay though, but since I cant upload one I'll just type it below

The most important part (regarding this game) was left out - CPU per-core frequency, and per-core load (so don't forget to turn them on in the overlay's settings). =D

You can upload the screenshot on any image hosting services (I use ImgBB[imgbb.com] for example) - and paste here the link.
Or you can record a video (use HW recording instead of a regular x264 - as you don't want extra stress on the CPU) in any recording app (or just use a phone to capture the screen), and upload it on YT or anywhere else (even a file sharing website will do just fine - I'm using FileIO[www.file.io] for example).

It's much easier and faster to do all of that via a remote desktop, ofc - but we're in public discussions, so maybe a solution posted here will help others.


Maybe some video settings got corrupted?
Try to delete that "renderer_settings.xml" file to reset the video options (it's just the graphics settings - all your other custom settings like keybinds/ect will be left intact, ofc).


On a side note, make sure that the game isn't running on a Vega 7 iGPU.
Even though that iGPU should handle it just fine - it'll limit the CPU, resulting in lower CPU horsepower.
Laptop CPU's (Ryzens especially), have a very tight TDP budget, which they share with their iGPU's, hence, if one is heavily loaded - there won't be any "juice" left for the other one.

I recently configured a client's laptop (Ryzen 3, and no discrete GPU, sadly), and it was struggling to run heavier games, even though its specs were plenty enough for that - all because of the CPU frequency dropping too low (in the range on 800MHZ on all of its 4 threads, iirc), resulting in abnormal frame times full of freezes and stutter.
The only way to keep the CPU frequency up was to limit the iGPU core frequency a bit (shared TDP, remember?).. It still couldn't maintain its stock 3GHz+ clock (the TDP hard-locked in the BIOS is way too low), yet a 1800MHZ+ (iirc) clock resulted in a bit low, but stable fps instead, w/o any stutter and lags whatsoever.

I know, it's not case, ofc, as your laptop has a discrete GPU - but it never hurts to do a double check, especially if it's just a couple clicks away. =)

[Sephrajin]

Randome off note:
Only use "medium" textures (ingame setting) to avoid random CTD's.

[Inception]

Originally posted by Vitalius:

Originally posted by Inception:

I have taken a screenshot of my monitoring overlay though, but since I cant upload one I'll just type it below

The most important part (regarding this game) was left out - CPU per-core frequency, and per-core load (so don't forget to turn them on in the overlay's settings). =D

You can upload the screenshot on any image hosting services (I use ImgBB[imgbb.com] for example) - and paste here the link.
Or you can record a video (use HW recording instead of a regular x264 - as you don't want extra stress on the CPU) in any recording app (or just use a phone to capture the screen), and upload it on YT or anywhere else (even a file sharing website will do just fine - I'm using FileIO[www.file.io] for example).

It's much easier and faster to do all of that via a remote desktop, ofc - but we're in public discussions, so maybe a solution posted here will help others.


Maybe some video settings got corrupted?
Try to delete that "renderer_settings.xml" file to reset the video options (it's just the graphics settings - all your other custom settings like keybinds/ect will be left intact, ofc).


On a side note, make sure that the game isn't running on a Vega 7 iGPU.
Even though that iGPU should handle it just fine - it'll limit the CPU, resulting in lower CPU horsepower.
Laptop CPU's (Ryzens especially), have a very tight TDP budget, which they share with their iGPU's, hence, if one is heavily loaded - there won't be any "juice" left for the other one.

I recently configured a client's laptop (Ryzen 3, and no discrete GPU, sadly), and it was struggling to run heavier games, even though its specs were plenty enough for that - all because of the CPU frequency dropping too low (in the range on 800MHZ on all of its 4 threads, iirc), resulting in abnormal frame times full of freezes and stutter.
The only way to keep the CPU frequency up was to limit the iGPU core frequency a bit (shared TDP, remember?).. It still couldn't maintain its stock 3GHz+ clock (the TDP hard-locked in the BIOS is way too low), yet a 1800MHZ+ (iirc) clock resulted in a bit low, but stable fps instead, w/o any stutter and lags whatsoever.

I know, it's not case, ofc, as your laptop has a discrete GPU - but it never hurts to do a double check, especially if it's just a couple clicks away. =)

https://ibb.co/GWLM0mz
^This is the link to the image I took (had to go windowed mode because it kept closing the game when trying to screenshot in fullscreen, the map is also car dealership as that is another one I have issues with)

I've deleted the render_settings file and it has had no affect on my FPS either so I'm not sure what the case could be. I'll check the TDP in the BIOS just to be sure and see if thats able to help anything.

On another note, I was slightly confused by what you meant with the Vega iGPU. I'm not incredibly technical when it comes to computers and stuff so sorry if its probably a very basic thing, but how would I confirm its NOT using the Vega iGPU?

[Inception]

Originally posted by Sephrajin:

Randome off note:
Only use "medium" textures (ingame setting) to avoid random CTD's.

I've used all texture settings and they provide the same performance, if not then it's only an increase of 1-2 fps from max to lowest which doesn't help much :/

[Insomnia]

Do you happen to have any mods installed? If so, which ones?

[SargoXIII]

reset ur graphic options and restart game.

[Inception]

Originally posted by Insomnia:

Do you happen to have any mods installed? If so, which ones?

I have no mods installed

[Inception]

Originally posted by SargoXIII:

reset ur graphic options and restart game.

I've tried that at it fixes nothing

[Vitalius]

Originally posted by Inception:

https://ibb.co/GWLM0mz
^This is the link to the image I took (had to go windowed mode because it kept closing the game when trying to screenshot in fullscreen, the map is also car dealership as that is another one I have issues with)

I've deleted the render_settings file and it has had no affect on my FPS either so I'm not sure what the case could be. I'll check the TDP in the BIOS just to be sure and see if thats able to help anything.

On another note, I was slightly confused by what you meant with the Vega iGPU. I'm not incredibly technical when it comes to computers and stuff so sorry if its probably a very basic thing, but how would I confirm its NOT using the Vega iGPU?

You forgot to turn the CPU per-core usage/frequency metrics.

Those can be enabled in the Afterburner's options, on the "Monitoring" tab.
I'd recommend enabling (just tick them[i.ibb.co] to save time) all the core/thread usage ones as well as their frequency ("CPUx clock").
And enable monitoring (GPUx usage) for both GPU's as well (Vega 7 iGPU and discrete RX 6500M).

And checking which one of the GPU's is the iGPU and which one is a discrete one (e.g. GPU1, GPU2, as so on) is plain simple - you can see that in the said Afterburner (Ctrl+i while the main window is in focus, and scroll down to see the listed GPU's), or pretty much in any other software out there (GPU-Z, HWiNFO, AIDA64, ect).
You can later on make custom labels for GPU's (same "Monitoring" tab) - so you'll always know which is which (in comparison to those default "noname" descriptors), when you open up the overlay. =)

And you can take screenshots using Afterburner as well (Options -> "Screen capture" tab). Good thing is - it works with any API and any fullscreen mode, even if the game prohibits screenshotting in general.
There's a hotkey for quickly toggling the overlay on/off as well. Very handy, imo (when you want to play the game w/o any "distractions" from overlays, yet you also want to check the stats on key moments, w/o having to Alt+Tab).

And to simplify - the iGPU is a GPU chip which is inside your CPU. It still packs a punch, but is way weaker than discrete GPU's. It's mainly used in laptops to save power, as it can do "normal" tasks (desktop rendering, HW video decoding, ect) just fine, but, ofc, it lacks the raw power to play most "heavy" games.
So the main problem with those is - even when a laptop (or a PC with a iGPU in its CPU) has a beefy discrete GPU, the games might still launch using the iGPU, resulting, as you might guess - in abnormal fps, throttling the CPU power along the way (shared TDP).
So, check your video driver's control panel (right-click the desktop) and navigate to "System" tab, then select "Switchable Graphics".
There you can see all the games and their profiles (whether they're run using iGPU or not).
Because, judging by the screenshot (VRAM usage) - it seems that the game was running on an iGPU.

Also, check on the RAM-hungry apps, as you were hitting 10GB+ usage when running the game. Easiest way to check that is using the Task Manager (Ctrl+Shift+Esc), and clicking on the "Memory" column in the first Proceses tab - sorting stuff from highest to lowest.
Even though you have 16GB RAM, and, by the common logic, you should've still have plenty spare RAM left - in reality (due to broken RAM commit in Win10+) you could already "ran out" of all available RAM.
I also recommend lowering (in the BIOS) the VRAM amount (to its minimum) for an iGPU - as you have a discrete GPU anyways, and that'll only make things better, as it'll free some RAM (which is dedicated for the iGPU, whether you use it or not).

[Inception]

Originally posted by Vitalius:

Originally posted by Inception:

https://ibb.co/GWLM0mz
^This is the link to the image I took (had to go windowed mode because it kept closing the game when trying to screenshot in fullscreen, the map is also car dealership as that is another one I have issues with)

I've deleted the render_settings file and it has had no affect on my FPS either so I'm not sure what the case could be. I'll check the TDP in the BIOS just to be sure and see if thats able to help anything.

On another note, I was slightly confused by what you meant with the Vega iGPU. I'm not incredibly technical when it comes to computers and stuff so sorry if its probably a very basic thing, but how would I confirm its NOT using the Vega iGPU?

You forgot to turn the CPU per-core usage/frequency metrics.

Those can be enabled in the Afterburner's options, on the "Monitoring" tab.
I'd recommend enabling (just tick them[i.ibb.co] to save time) all the core/thread usage ones as well as their frequency ("CPUx clock").
And enable monitoring (GPUx usage) for both GPU's as well (Vega 7 iGPU and discrete RX 6500M).

And checking which one of the GPU's is the iGPU and which one is a discrete one (e.g. GPU1, GPU2, as so on) is plain simple - you can see that in the said Afterburner (Ctrl+i while the main window is in focus, and scroll down to see the listed GPU's), or pretty much in any other software out there (GPU-Z, HWiNFO, AIDA64, ect).
You can later on make custom labels for GPU's (same "Monitoring" tab) - so you'll always know which is which (in comparison to those default "noname" descriptors), when you open up the overlay. =)

And you can take screenshots using Afterburner as well (Options -> "Screen capture" tab). Good thing is - it works with any API and any fullscreen mode, even if the game prohibits screenshotting in general.
There's a hotkey for quickly toggling the overlay on/off as well. Very handy, imo (when you want to play the game w/o any "distractions" from overlays, yet you also want to check the stats on key moments, w/o having to Alt+Tab).

And to simplify - the iGPU is a GPU chip which is inside your CPU. It still packs a punch, but is way weaker than discrete GPU's. It's mainly used in laptops to save power, as it can do "normal" tasks (desktop rendering, HW video decoding, ect) just fine, but, ofc, it lacks the raw power to play most "heavy" games.
So the main problem with those is - even when a laptop (or a PC with a iGPU in its CPU) has a beefy discrete GPU, the games might still launch using the iGPU, resulting, as you might guess - in abnormal fps, throttling the CPU power along the way (shared TDP).
So, check your video driver's control panel (right-click the desktop) and navigate to "System" tab, then select "Switchable Graphics".
There you can see all the games and their profiles (whether they're run using iGPU or not).
Because, judging by the screenshot (VRAM usage) - it seems that the game was running on an iGPU.

Also, check on the RAM-hungry apps, as you were hitting 10GB+ usage when running the game. Easiest way to check that is using the Task Manager (Ctrl+Shift+Esc), and clicking on the "Memory" column in the first Proceses tab - sorting stuff from highest to lowest.
Even though you have 16GB RAM, and, by the common logic, you should've still have plenty spare RAM left - in reality (due to broken RAM commit in Win10+) you could already "ran out" of all available RAM.
I also recommend lowering (in the BIOS) the VRAM amount (to its minimum) for an iGPU - as you have a discrete GPU anyways, and that'll only make things better, as it'll free some RAM (which is dedicated for the iGPU, whether you use it or not).

I have enabled all settings and taken a screenshot of them when I am doing the tutorial heist (genuinely ran out of offshore funds but still performance issues on this heist too) which is here https://ibb.co/xhpQvzw (Note that GPU 1 is my discreet GPU and GPU 2 is the iGPU)

Also for BIOS settings, I don't think my laptop allows its users to change its old bios (using a HP Victus 15 fb000 model). I've tried to search ways to access these settings in BIOS but I haven't come across any information that tells me how. I also disabled most RAM hungry apps such as browsers and other game launchers, leaving only discord and steam open as they're the only 2 I use when playing the game (discord to call with friends) but its still giving me performance issues. I just don't think Payday 2 is destined to run well on my laptop xD

[Vitalius]

Originally posted by Inception:

I have enabled all settings and taken a screenshot of them when I am doing the tutorial heist (genuinely ran out of offshore funds but still performance issues on this heist too) which is here https://ibb.co/xhpQvzw (Note that GPU 1 is my discreet GPU and GPU 2 is the iGPU)

Also for BIOS settings, I don't think my laptop allows its users to change its old bios (using a HP Victus 15 fb000 model). I've tried to search ways to access these settings in BIOS but I haven't come across any information that tells me how. I also disabled most RAM hungry apps such as browsers and other game launchers, leaving only discord and steam open as they're the only 2 I use when playing the game (discord to call with friends) but its still giving me performance issues. I just don't think Payday 2 is destined to run well on my laptop xD

When you need to test out stuff, and you're low on offshore - just use the "free" heists on the CrimeNET map (those, with the cooldown circles). You won't lose offshore money on those, but, ofc, the heists themselves and their difficulties will be random (which is not the problem with fps testing, as most assets are present even on normal difficulty). Or just join someone through matchmaking - it's free as well. =)

As for the BIOS, that's what the HP support says about that model:
Access the BIOS Setup Utility using a series of key presses during the boot process. Turn off the computer and wait five seconds. Turn on the computer, and then immediately press the Esc key repeatedly until the Startup Menu opens. Press f10 to open the BIOS Setup Utility.
Just be sure to change only the options you know, and don't forget to save the changes on the last BIOS tab.


Very good, now you know that your discrete GPU takes over the iGPU in this game, and most importantly - your CPU isn't clocking down. And RAM consumption went down to 7GB as well, which is also a nice thing.
But, I found it very strange that at ~30fps the CPU is already at 30%+ per used cores, which is very odd. As with a Ryzen 5600H (at 3.27GHz) you should get around 5% per-core utilization on PD2 on ~30fps. Certainly not 30%+ per used cores, because 30%+ would get you at least 200fps in that game, on that CPU with that frequency.

How many fps do you get in the main menu?
Reason I'm asking is - you should easily hit the 300 fps softcap (named "Unlimited" in the options).
That'll test out the GPU load (its clocks getting higher properly) as well - as you'll get 10x the fps, even though the actual load will be lower.

You can also use DXVK. It's a DirectX to Vulkan wrapper.
Basically, it transforms DX9-DX11 calls into Vulkan ones, lowering the CPU overhead, and increasing the fps on top of that. Especially useful in other CPU bound games as well - like Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, for example.
To use it - just go to its official github[github.com] and extract (in this example, with PD2) the d3d9.dll from the "x32" folder into the game's root folder (the one with the payday2_win32_release.exe in it).
However, I'd recommend using a fork called DXVK-GPLASYNC[gitlab.com] - it's the same as the original, but it has a built-in (so you won't have to add a variable yourself) asynchronous shader cache compilation feature (which is done separately from the rendering thread, hence you won't get microstutters due to it). For example, I'm using that fork atm in PD2. To be able to use its latest version (e.g. v2.7+), your GPU has to support Vulkan v1.3, so if you're unsure - you can use the v2.6.2[gitlab.com] (it's the last version for older GPU's).
And if you, for some reason, choose to use the original, I'd recommend using DXVK v2.4.1[github.com] instead of v2.5.x versions, because of broken (highly unstable) frametime in the latter.
It won't help that much (about 10-15% increase in my case) with raising the fps, but, as AMD is worse at DX9 (and better in DX12/Vulkan) - you could give it a go, as it's a win-win.


First of all, check your CPU score, to test out that there's no limit on the active percentage (as the clocks might be high, but the actual performance will be low).
You can use any benchmark out there. Compare your scores with the average for your HW. For example (for this exact laptop model), in CPU-Z it should be around 4500 multi and around 570 single, and in Cinebench R15 it should score around 1500 points.
That way we'll figure out whether the CPU is "slacking" or not.

Try to disable all the overlays (Discord, Steam, ect - besides Afterburner, ofc) - as sometimes they mess with the fps. That's why I kept them disabled for many years. =)

Double check the video driver control panel for a couple things.
Since the GPU isn't clocking high due to low utilization in PD2 - try to force more load to it, and enable the GPU Virtual Super Resolution (in the AMD driver's control panel), and then set the ingame resolution higher than native (e.g. 4K), and check whether the GPU clocks will go up or not. I'd suggest testing the GPU clocks in any other benchmark/test out there - but it will be useless, as we need to check how it behaves in PD2 specifically. Don't forget to turn the AMD VSR off after these tests. =)
Check the v/sync to be set to off (while this testing is on), so it won't interfere with the results.
Disable "Radeon Chill", and other similar "throttling" options.
That way we'll figure out whether the GPU is "slacking" or not in that specific game.


If nothing else works - you might consider reinstalling the GPU driver. Even though it's most likely not a driver issue per se (as other games behave normally) - maybe some PD2-specific profile settings on the driver level got corrupted.
But do it in a "smart" way - download DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller)[www.wagnardsoft.com] and the video driver for your GPU[www.amd.com] beforehand, disconnect from the internet (so that Windows won't automatically download and install a "generic" driver, which is often outdated), then use the DDU to uninstall the GPU driver (it cleans all the leftovers, eliminating most bugs that can occur afterwards), and reinstall the driver from the package you downloaded.


If that won't help either - the only option I see is to check it via remote desktop.
Because I'm sure that the problem lies in something insignificant. Especially considering that, for example, Cyberpunk on lows gets 50+ fps on that specific laptop - so it's miles beyond on what it takes to run PD2 with decent framerates.

[Vitalius]

Stumbled upon a couple vids, and seems that your CPU+GPU combo can handle the game perfectly fine (well, it was obvious - but it never hurts to double-check).

First one shows exactly your combo (yet a different model), and in the second one there's a similar model, yet has an RTX 3050 instead, but, since it's underloaded anyways (the game is CPU bound) - you can take these fps measurements into account as well.
The CPU clock is higher in both vids (higher TDP on these different laptop models, or maybe just OC'd), yet the difference with your clocks would be minimal in PD2.

In other words, don't lose hope to play PD2. =D

[Inception]

Originally posted by Vitalius:

Stumbled upon a couple vids, and seems that your CPU+GPU combo can handle the game perfectly fine (well, it was obvious - but it never hurts to double-check).

First one shows exactly your combo (yet a different model), and in the second one there's a similar model, yet has an RTX 3050 instead, but, since it's underloaded anyways (the game is CPU bound) - you can take these fps measurements into account as well.
The CPU clock is higher in both vids (higher TDP on these different laptop models, or maybe just OC'd), yet the difference with your clocks would be minimal in PD2.

In other words, don't lose hope to play PD2. =D

Its been so long I was ill and forgot about this post so my apologies for the long wait, but you'll be happy to know the DirectX 9 dll file worked in fixing my fps issues. It runs the game as I thought it would normally on my laptop which I'm very pleased about. I now get a smooth 120 fps (capped by me) with 1% lows of about 55 fps. I just wanted to give you guys that final update incase anyone else out there was having a similar issue. Thanks a ton! :D