Overkill Need to Reassess Some Recent Actions

[Tuffcooke]

Let me first start out by saying that this is in NO WAY an attempt to slander or deface Overkill. This is me reiterating public information that I and several other users have expressed displeasure with so we can all discuss it in a mature way. The Overkill staff are nice people. I can say that with certainty and honesty. Both Almir and Simon have spent money out of their own pockets to help me provide content to my fans in the past even though they knew going in that there were less than 500 of said fans. Hell, that number was sitting at 34 until Almir helped out. All that being said, let's take a look at some issues that have popped up in Payday 2's lifespan thusfar. Some of these are admittedly small issues, but worth mentioning. Wall of text, ACTIVATE:

Some Overkill Employees Are Unhappy With How Things Run

https://www.glassdoor.at/Bewertungen/Starbreeze-Ab-Bewertungen-E532406.htm?&countryRedirect=true

Update: Sadir has left due to creative differences.

Threatening To Delete Vital Updates

Overkill specifically say on the Crimefest site that anything not reached will be deleted. That meant deleting these turret changes which people have been asking for since the thing released. "Got bored of grinding the challenge? Alrighty, keep your turret then". The same could be said about the weapon balance. Yes, it has some issues but overall we needed one. Would that have just been scrapped if we didn't make it?

Update: During my interview with Almir, he said they never would have deleted anything and just released it later. That means either the entire RTC was pointless, or that was just a quick attempt at covering "Wait, we said we would delete stuff which turned out to be critical"

Events Centered Around MT's/Skins

This shouldn't be a thing. We have a 30 day timer to find a hidden safe and crack it for bonus loot. It is not a good idea to make the only immediate incentive behind an event something that is already a hurricane of controversy. "These people seem to be angry about this. Let's make them work to get more of it!". That's not how you deal with controversy. You do not have people that are angry with something jump through hoops to get a differently colored version of that something.

Overkill Lying to Community Sites Before Phasing Them Out

I'll let you read it for yourself:

http://www.pd2stats.com/

Despicable.

Microtransactions Added AND Providing Buffs. Broken Promise from Overkill

I really have tried to keep this thread civil and I'm still doing my best but I am REALLY annoyed with this. First of all, what happened to this? :

"We've made it clear that PAYDAY 2 will have no micro-transactions whatsoever (shame on you if you thought otherwise!)"

Seriously. That statement is now a lie. It is incorrect information spreading and then intentionally conflicted. I can't see how this could be justified. They CERTAINLY don't need the money, and what on Earth implied it was a good idea to have the skins become Stat Boosters?! People asked for cosmetic weapon customization, but never like this. Why not just use the same mask material? How long before we pay $2.49 for a mask that increases concealment by 1%? It now costs almost the same as some weapon packs, entire PACKS, to get ONE gun with arbitrary stat buffs. In fact, it costs MORE than some packs when on sale. Why? Just......why? Who thought that was a good idea? This is hardcore damage to the game and community. The only way they can even come close to fixing this is to remove stat buffs on skins.

John Wick as the Crimefest secret reward

This one was a burn that left a bad taste in the mouth of the community. An ad for another character that many people still do not like was used as the final reward for a long campaign in the Payday community. The entire point of Crimefest was to give players content for free that would have been paid had the Crimefest goals not been met. Wick was the final goal, an admittedly hard one to reach. What if we didn't unlock him? Would we have been expected to pay the $4.99 price tag character packs use for a walking advertisement?

Promises

Overkill has sadly made a habit out of promising things without even knowing what they are giving us. For example, the FBI files from Crimefest. This was said of the issue:

The FBI Files is a feature we've been working on in a design stage for some time. We have several ideas that we think are great but they all take time to implement.

This means they don't even have a solid plan for this is yet. This was posted on May 18th, 2015. This begs the question: what was being promised in late 2014?
On top of all this, the GenSec Enemy also due during Crimefest was said to have begun production in early 2015 with a release set for late summer at earliest. An entire feature/enemy of the game was promised without production having begun.

Paydaycon Prize Money Unaccounted For

The Hype Train website clearly promised 250,000 dollars in prizes for Paydaycon. Nothing was ever said of where this went and many community members are trying to figure it out. Considering the community funded this prize pool during an event, we have a right to know what happened to this money. People are fearing that Overkill pocketed it, and I hope that isn't the case

Safehouse Customization.

I know this is avoided like the plague in the community. People are ridiculed for mentioning it, but why? Because it doesn't add as much as heists or guns? People have a right to ask for something that was promised in release. Here is a youtube video from 505 Games, the publisher of Payday 2, that was uploaded before the game released. The description clearly states that Safehouse Customization is already in the game at that point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-FFD7Oxa6w

Update: Almir has released an image showing the progress, and the Mid-August to Early-October release frame is still on track.

Completely Overkill Pack

Another one people avoid talking about like the plague. This one is simply a mess. First of all, before release it was mentioned that no DLC would be over ten dollars. Here we have (or rather had) a limited-time DLC for double that price. It was called support for Overkill, but them providing something in return at the same time of the transaction means it is downloadable paid content, regardless of how you view it. People saw it as Overkill asking for donations and they had the following to say:

There is not a single word anywhere regarding donations. As always with our community, we ask for your support.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how asking for support via a monetary transfer is different from a donation in any way except name. On top of the four masks included for this, there is another cosmetic item still unreleased. It was announced that this would be a random cosemetic item from a pool of 25 different ones. This one angered several people, myself included. This meant the community essentially paid $19.99 for the default masks with added lights and an RNG roll. When people began talking of refunds, this pack was released days ahead of the explained date which made refunds near impossible. That seems very fishy in my eyes. People have since begun refunding their copies of the Completely Overkill Pack if they still own them, and Steam has reportedly oblidged based on the fact that part of it is still unreleased and a secret. At this point, I'm almost embarrassed to admit I still own my COP. I'm clinging on to hope that if the community makes enough noise, Overkill will move remove the RNG and give all the owners all of the items. I know that seems farfetched and is WILDLY unlikely, but with a price tag that was at the time two thirds of the game itself for only cosmetic items, it seems fair to request alot of the items or at the very least the choice of which item from the pool we get.

Update after it released:

COP is skins with stat buffs (making their cosmetic only line a complete lie). 1 of 25, some worse quality than the free safes from Slaughterhouse and FWB. To make it worse, their "apology" to COP owners for the wait was to give 7 DLC (one of those was the Ovk Pack which they specifically said is not included). What do you do if you own these 7 DLC already? Well ♥♥♥♥ you, here's a skin. That's right, people that bought DLC get LESS from the COP than people who bought only that

Another thing that bothers me is how the DLC was handled, and I'll touch on that. Remember the statements that said the Overkill Pack was not part of the Completely Overkill Pack? When the COP released, it actually DID have the Overkill Pack. Along with 7 other DLC. This was a problem because the vets who bought all the new DLC as they came out ended up spending more money to get the same amount of content as people that just bought the COP and called it a day.

Update 2:

If you refund the back you lose any of the 7 DLC tied to it that you bought previously. You don't get your money back for those either. I have a theory that this is to prevent refund attempts on the off-chance it works. Why would you refund something you don't like if doing so takes a pile of stuff you DO like?

From Drewbster: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=553352743

Exclusive Content

It was promised before release that players would all have a fair and equal shot at all content. Now, that isn't the case for the following:

E3 2015 masks (require you be in attendance or happen to see an Overkill member's twitter)
Humble Bundle 1/2/3/4 masks (require you purchase them during a limited time frame)
Alienware Alpha masks (require you own an entirely different gaming device)
Several masks and weapons from Hotline Miami update (require you own Hotline Miami)
Jacket Character Pack (require you own the special edition of Hotline Miami 2)
Paydaycon 2015 Mask (Same as E3)
Kawaii Dozer Mask (Require real life bobblehead purchase)
Dead by Daylight

Two of those are unavailable for all future players. Four of those require money on a product outside of Payday 2 which people might not want, but are forced to miss out on content for not supported something entirely else.

Misinformation

Overkill has a slight reputation for not always being correct in their announcements, intentionally or not. This reflects poorly for obvious reasons. Here are some examples:


The most recent update (at the time of thread creation) mentions fixes to bugs which clearly are still in the game.

When asked why police do not have hitboxes in their arms or legs, an Overkill staff member said the engine would be unable to handle it. Later in the thread, somebody posted a video of them modding those hitboxes in flawlessly in a single afternoon

Flashbangs only appearing with police to throw them

See safehouse customization

This statement: "People sometimes forget that we're a relatively small, independent developer studio. We're roughly 45 developers at OVERKILL and Starbreeze combined." Notice how they call themselves an independent developer. This statement is entirely false although they continue to hide behind it. An independent developer is one that publishes their own games. Overkill have never done this. SOE published Payday: The Heist while 505 published Payday 2.

Advertisements

Payday 2 has become a billboard, plain and simple. The list is:

John Wick (Repeatedly)
Jacket Character Pack (Hotline Miami heist makes no specific references)
Alienware Alpha Masks and Mauler melee weapon
Alesso Heist
Walking Dead
Speedrunners
StarVR
Chivalry: Medieval Warefare
Point Break/Bodhi
Goat Simulator
Dead by Daylight
Hardcore Henry

Infamy 2.0 and 2.1

My all around feelings are mixed about this. On the one hand, I don't see how tiers 6 - 25 could offer the same bonuses the original 5 have without what little shreds of balance we have now. However, I would hope that people that read my OP could gather that I hold morality and moral responsibility highly. Therefore, if Overkill said it would be more than just cosmetics I believe they have a responsibility to deliver, well..... more than just cosmetics. I personally am of the opinion that the XP bonuses and achievements exist simply as a loophole to get around the "more than cosmetics" thing. However, I think that the gameplay modifier you get from the prestiege system shouldn't disappear after you finish prestieging. I feel like the announcement of the Infamy 2.1 Beta was just to fend off the waves of complaints, as we have heard nothing about it aside from the fact that it's apparently a thing that will happen evetually.

Arm and Leg Hitboxes

I briefly acknowledged this in the op, but needs a bigger chunk. It's entirely possible despite what Overkill said. A single man did it in a single afternoon. There have been people in the thread that said it was pointless. It's not pointless. Far from it. There have been many times where I would have been able to kill a certain cop pinning me down, but all I head was a view of the technically non-existant elbow. In any other game I could have winged him. I can't fathom the amount of shields I would have killed if their legs clipped through the shield itself before their animations were updated, but that was rectified (eventually) so I digress. If Overkill doesn't want their hitboxes at the standard established in 2000 for whatever reason, they should say that instead of blaming the technology with a claim that was debunked in a matter of hours.

Update: In Progress and expected to come before Half Life 3

John Wick Video Game in VR

So Starbreeze/Overkill and Lionsgate are partnering (again) to make a VR John Wick game. That's all fine and good, but are we to believe that the Payday Universe and John Wick universe are the same now? They've also stated that this game is going to bring more of a story to John Wick's role in Payday 2. I really dislike that a game about Heisting is actually expanding to make a story about a character from something entirely different, even though only one of the nine "proper" heisters have any real substance to their stories in-game.

The Walking Dead

This was handled almost comically poorly and left a black spot on Overkill's record. They posted a one-day timer that revealed a one-week timer that revealed a one-month timer. No joke. What so many people hate about this one is Overkill used Payday's resources to build hype for something entirely different. During the month, daily audio tapes released and many referanced the events of Payday 2, furthering the implication of it being Payday-related. The biggest slap in the face when it turned out to be something else was that the wait finally ended....on the one-year anniversary of Payday 2's launch. It didn't help that when people accussed Overkill of a bait-and-switch, or even said they just didn't like it, the response was "Grow Up. It's our forum, we do what we want" on Twitter. That site is where some Overkill staff have had some outbursts or just been outright mean to fans, such as this: https://twitter.com/PergerBoy/status/508312647914500097/. Also, this gem (not my video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jCoABQQzzA

Consoles

Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of the game has been abandoned. The additional releases on Xbox One and Play Station 4 are now over 400 days without update, despite constant claims of it coming soon. As somebody who originally played on console, I feel for console players. Developers shouldn't play favorites in such a way.

Anyway, these are just a few things that grind my gears, and seemingly alot of the community feels the same way. I understand that this thread will raise some flags, but I'd be surprised if I got banned as I only reiterated public information. Hopefully we can be mature as we discuss.

[SC]

stop being entitled ;)))))))))))))

But really, you hit the nail hard OP. Overkill has shown they really don't care when they're prioritizing making paid DLC over making free content that we were promised ages ago. And a lot of the time free content we get ends up being, er, subpar.

Who cares about being a concerned consumer right? That's for nerds Xddddddd

[Tuffcooke]

Originally posted by SC:

stop being entitled ;)))))))))))))

But really, you hit the nail hard OP. Overkill has shown they really don't care when they're prioritizing making paid DLC over making free content that we were promised ages ago. And a lot of the time free content we get ends up being, er, subpar.

Who cares about being a concerned consumer right? That's for nerds Xddddddd

Thanks. Hopefully some people at Overkill see this and it does some good for things down the line.

[qweqweqwe]

Joker already nails these down & parrots this everytime.(Funnily he was a very firm defender of OVK prior to the latest events).
You'll just get tired of it.

[Max]

John Wick's DC jobs still not happening.
No reason to put on a good show in Alesso Heist loud.
Jacket should be an uncle in the year of 2015

[Tuffcooke]

Originally posted by TJulie Sigtuna:

Joker already nails these down & parrots this everytime.(Funnily he was a very firm defender of OVK prior to the latest events).
You'll just get tired of it.

To be honest, seeing Joker get banned today was part of the reason why I made this. I agree with him on almost all of his recent complaints. This recent Alesso thing compared to all the building stuff with the Overkill Pack got under my skin too much and I just wanted to speak up.

Originally posted by Dusty:

+1

Thanks m8

Originally posted by Max:

John Wick's DC jobs still not happening.
No reason to put on a good show in Alesso Heist loud.
Jacket should be an uncle in the year of 2015

I don't care as much about the reasons/logic as I do about what the reasons are for

[SC]

Originally posted by Tuffcooke:

Thanks. Hopefully some people at Overkill see this and it does some good for things down the line.

I would hope so, many of the community regulars care a great deal of the game and Overkill all the way since PDTH. But with how it's going I'm almost to the point I hope that VR crap makes them bankrupt.

Hey maybe this thread will get a visit from Bo crying again!

[Waldo]

Hope you don't get banned like Joker, good luck.

[Pyro Fennec]

Let's see, going from the top:

Wick: I don't hate him. Not my favourite heister, but I can live with him, regardless of the movie promotion going around at the time they released him. I need to get around to seeing that movie, too...
FBI files: would be nice to have, but likely won't be as mind-blowing as people are starting to expect. Getting a little impatient, though.
Safehouse: as above, but not caring about it as much.
CO pack: I can definitely see folks being upset over them taking so long to bring out a bunch of cosmetic items. I didn't feel like paying that price tag for the content it offered, though, so it doesn't affect me quite as much.
Exclusive content: you know what that content actually includes? Masks. More masks. Even more masks. A novelty melee weapon (briefcase). More masks. And a character pack with all the things that come with it. If being locked out of some masks is such a terrible thing, well... I honestly don't know what to say to that. Also, you forgot the Speedrunners cross-promotion masks. Personally, I don't mind the cross-promotion stuff so much. Sometimes it draws my attention to stuff I'd also like (as with Hotline Miami), other times I just shrug and carry on.
Ads: you forgot Speedrunners again. And the list doesn't "include" that stuff, that IS the list in its entirety. Aside from Jacket, the stuff blends in pretty seamlessly with the game world, so I don't mind. We got a hitman on the crew, we get some fancy masks, we hit a place while it's hosting a concert of someone I've never heard of...

Not gonna defend that Walking Dead mess, though.

[Tuffcooke]

Originally posted by Max:

John Wick's DC jobs still not happening.
No reason to put on a good show in Alesso Heist loud.
Jacket should be an uncle in the year of 2015

Originally posted by SC:

Originally posted by Tuffcooke:

Thanks. Hopefully some people at Overkill see this and it does some good for things down the line.

I would hope so, many of the community regulars care a great deal of the game and Overkill all the way since PDTH. But with how it's going I'm almost to the point I hope that VR crap makes them bankrupt.

Hey maybe this thread will get a visit from Bo crying again!

I'm one of those vets from P:TH. I wouldn't go as far as saying I'd like them bankrupt, but I would seriously like them follow the thread title. As I've said in other threads, I hope LGL doesn't go down the same path. They do FANTASTIC work and did what Overkill said was impossible. Still, Overkill seems to be handling the PR for their upcoming game and the only art has Wolf hidden in it.

[Tuffcooke]

Originally posted by Robo-MeeM:

Hope you don't get banned like Joker, good luck.

Thanks. I'm worried it might happen, but I didn't break any rules so I take some comfort in that.

Originally posted by Pyro Fennec:

Let's see, going from the top:

Wick: I don't hate him. Not my favourite heister, but I can live with him, regardless of the movie promotion going around at the time they released him. I need to get around to seeing that movie, too...
FBI files: would be nice to have, but likely won't be as mind-blowing as people are starting to expect. Getting a little impatient, though.
Safehouse: as above, but not caring about it as much.
CO pack: I can definitely see folks being upset over them taking so long to bring out a bunch of cosmetic items. I didn't feel like paying that price tag for the content it offered, though, so it doesn't affect me quite as much.
Exclusive content: you know what that content actually includes? Masks. More masks. Even more masks. A novelty melee weapon (briefcase). More masks. And a character pack with all the things that come with it. If being locked out of some masks is such a terrible thing, well... I honestly don't know what to say to that. Also, you forgot the Speedrunners cross-promotion masks. Personally, I don't mind the cross-promotion stuff so much. Sometimes it draws my attention to stuff I'd also like (as with Hotline Miami), other times I just shrug and carry on.
Ads: you forgot Speedrunners again. And the list doesn't "include" that stuff, that IS the list in its entirety. Aside from Jacket, the stuff blends in pretty seamlessly with the game world, so I don't mind. We got a hitman on the crew, we get some fancy masks, we hit a place while it's hosting a concert of someone I've never heard of...

Not gonna defend that Walking Dead mess, though.

The John Wick movie was actually great. I really liked it, though I waited about 5 months to see it just out of spite for the whole Payday thing. Still, there's alot more to the Hotline stuff than just a briefcase and Jacket. 4 melees, then Jacket's hammer and smg, which arguably the best smg in the entire game. The complaints about the content wasn't so much because of what it is, but rather the fact that at release they said they wouldn't do stuff like......well, this

[Boris the Animal]

I support this message.

+1

[Brovah]

I enjoy these threads, especially when it devolves into ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of unimaginable magnitude. I'm surprised someone has finally dragged the What's Next? arguement from the grave though, I thought everyone had forgotten about that national tragedy.

[Tuffcooke]

Originally posted by Brovah:

I enjoy these threads, especially when it devolves into ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of unimaginable magnitude. I'm surprised someone has finally dragged the What's Next? arguement from the grave though, I thought everyone had forgotten about that national tragedy.

Remember the Alamo. In all seriousness, though, I still see it pop up in threads from time to time. It still comes up in conversation with a lot of the vets I talk to. On the topic of devolving into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, so far so good

[Pyro Fennec]

Originally posted by Tuffcooke:

Still, there's alot more to the Hotline stuff than just a briefcase and Jacket. 4 melees, then Jacket's hammer and smg, which arguably the best smg in the entire game.

I think you're getting your info mixed up. The Hotline Miami DLC contains, on top of the heist itself, 3 SMGs (all available once DLC is bought), 5 melee weapons (likewise, except for the suitcase, which is about as useful as the money packet), and 8 masks along with their respective patterns and materials, half of which are available with the DLC after doing the required achievements. The rest require owning the Hotline Miami game.

Owning Hotline Miami 2 unlocks, at base level, 6 masks. Owning the special edition also gives the Jacket character pack, which contains a decent melee weapon and an SMG that is, in my opinion, sub-par to the UZI and handles like Vlad's brother-in-law in a plane after a pub crawl. Oh, and Jacket himself, along with a perk deck.

[Tuffcooke]

Originally posted by Pyro Fennec:

Originally posted by Tuffcooke:

Still, there's alot more to the Hotline stuff than just a briefcase and Jacket. 4 melees, then Jacket's hammer and smg, which arguably the best smg in the entire game.

I think you're getting your info mixed up. The Hotline Miami DLC contains, on top of the heist itself, 3 SMGs (all available once DLC is bought), 5 melee weapons (likewise, except for the suitcase, which is about as useful as the money packet), and 8 masks along with their respective patterns and materials, half of which are available with the DLC after doing the required achievements. The rest require owning the Hotline Miami game.

Owning Hotline Miami 2 unlocks, at base level, 6 masks. Owning the special edition also gives the Jacket character pack, which contains a decent melee weapon and an SMG that is, in my opinion, sub-par to the UZI and handles like Vlad's brother-in-law in a plane after a pub crawl. Oh, and Jacket himself, along with a perk deck.

Right. Should have specified better. My B.