Copycat Impressions and Discovered Card Strategies So Far

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

Interesting concept. I relatively know what is a good approach with this perk deck already from experimenting.

The maximum dodge is only 25 without other skills, while when it comes to the increases in health and armor, with armor, it's a small increase of just 5%, but that makes a massive difference and that is with each card, so you only really need one of the cards be increased armor to get a huge benefit, along with two or three becoming increased health for another useful way to take additional hits, or having a spare for the increased crouch speed which is way more useful then it sounds for armor builds.

Only a couple of the last cards really benefit from a dodge focus with all the other cards, and with other combinations, it's, most of the time, just a downgrade from an existing dodge perk deck.

Another thing as well is that the ricochet effect isn't really that useful in game from my experience. Basically, it isn't really that strong and it's rather risky to rely on. It almost reminds me of Graze in a weird way.

The other abilities are alright, both of which are health based. One from the additional health on every headshot, which isn't really all that much but it's also not completely useless, and one for invulnerability when below 50% percent health for 2 seconds, which can actually be useful on some different combinations for the last card, such as Stoic for example since often times players tend to heal when going below 50% health for example, or perhaps with other health oriented perk decks.

I think the best strategy for this perk deck is something under the lines of almost creating a perk deck combination that is essentially another perk deck, but buffed by having better bonuses, and it seems like a lot of the health cards tend to benefit a ton from this, and to mainly make an armor or health build.

I'll just put all of my findings so far here when it comes to the last cards:

1. Brute Strength: This can be useful for gaining another additional hit to health or armor in addition to some players that might not be using armor without being able to be above 225 which will also receive a benefit.

2. Disturbing The Peace: Ehhh? Not really useful for anything from what I can tell so far. Maybe I'll discover some sort of use for this later.

3. Type 1 Armor: Completely useless given that you can just use a 5% card instead.

4. Elusive: I need to experiment with this one more, because I'm not sure if this doubles the other skill for potentially a 30% chance of not getting hit and instead directing attention to another player. This could be something rather niche, like if you have a lot of health with both a resistance skill and this, this could make a version of Muscle that might be rather interesting, with one less hit, but still additional hits with health, but without the increase in targeting chance, but rather a 30% reduction when near players. This might also be really good in addition to berserker.

5. Ambidexterity: Somewhat of a nice bonus, but also not all that exciting.

6. Basic Composure: Feels like a downgrade from just using Crook.

7. Dutch Courage: Feels like a downgrade from just using Burglar.

8. Expert Close Combat: Could potentially be amazing with a build that uses frenzy and berserker.

9. Tension: Basically if you can't run Bullseye, you can choose this, but so many builds use Bullseye and the actual armor regen isn't going to really make a difference even though it is a larger amount. This does have a massive amount of potential though, with potentially being able to create a stronger version of Anarchist but with both extra armor and health with the normal armor regen speed, which could be rather powerful.

10. Medical Supplies: Absolutely amazing. You can basically have Gambler's ability with extra health and armor.

11. Adrenaline: Feels like a downgrade of Grinder.

12. Hebi Irezumi: You can run a better version of Yakuza with this, but it's also a better version of the single worst perk deck in the game so...

13. The Emerging Force: This has a lot of potential to be really good, but you also have to ask yourself whether having Ex-President and running that would be a better choice overall. This is another one that I need more time with, but I see a lot of potential with this specific card.

14. Outburst: It feels the same as just using Maniac honestly.

15. Blitzkrieg Bop: You can have the way that Anarchist's armor regen works if that is what you prefer over the normal armor regen. To me, I like having the normal armor regen more anyways, but some players really like the Anarchist armor regen system.

16. Prospect: You can have a better version of Biker, but Biker is also one of the worst perk decks so...

Throwable cards: Either they have the same effectiveness as the normal perk decks but without the other bonuses from those perk decks that are really good, or are a downgrade. The Stoic Flask could potentially be really interesting with both extra armor and health. You can have a stronger version of Tag Team, which again, is one of the worst perk decks but that is an option, the pocket ECM's could be rather strong when running additional armor and health, but for dodge it is a complete downgrade from just using Hacker normally. When it comes to Leech, you get a far stronger version of Leech from just using Leech, instead of having a worst version of Leech in nearly every way but with extra armor.

Basically so far I have found these final cards to be really good or have a lot of potential to be really great as well as potentially an upgrade over the actual perk decks:

Number: 1, Maybe 4, 8, 9, 10, Maybe 13, Maybe Stoic Flask, and the Pocket ECM's.

[DLCless Dan]

The real question is how Overkill was intended the static part of the perk cards to actually be used like the ricochet from the dodge sounds really out of place as CoCa seems to be a health focused deck

[Mementocity]

Originally posted by DLCless Dan:

The real question is how Overkill was intended the static part of the perk cards to actually be used like the ricochet from the dodge sounds really out of place as CoCa seems to be a health focused deck

you can achieve 50% dodge while running while using the anarchist card, this and having 2 procs of 2 secs of invulnerability, you can maybe get some use from just getting shot at , also the insane armor gating you get with suit its perfect since, you either armor gate, or dodge, or get hit again and proc another 2 secs invuln that tells you to hurry up and take cover

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

Originally posted by DLCless Dan:

The real question is how Overkill was intended the static part of the perk cards to actually be used like the ricochet from the dodge sounds really out of place as CoCa seems to be a health focused deck

Yeah like the ricochet card seems so out of place compared to the rest of the other default cards.

[DLCless Dan]

And in theory, 2 can allow you to play a less priority heavy panic muscle build

[Akutare]

I can't remember how it used to work, but I kind of remember the original Stoic having a pretty broken strategy if you only leveled it to it's 2nd card, it would use armor instead of converting it, which actually worked out pretty well because you could heal in a way kind of similar to kingpin with thicker armor, and that's what Copycat's version seems to do so I imagine it's decent.

There's a couple of deck combinations that do seem very nice, and it actually seems like it actually might beat out Yakuza now as the speed Stealth deck of choice since you get the same speed boost but now can take 40% faster carry and crouching now too lol

I kind of wish Copycat had actually gone a step further and given you two effects of other decks, even if that means getting rid of one of the generic cards, giving you a much deeper effect of making some really fun combinations, like having the hip flask and gambler healing.

[DLCless Dan]

Originally posted by Akutare:

I can't remember how it used to work, but I kind of remember the original Stoic having a pretty broken strategy if you only leveled it to it's 2nd card, it would use armor instead of converting it, which actually worked out pretty well because you could heal in a way kind of similar to kingpin with thicker armor, and that's what Copycat's version seems to do so I imagine it's decent.

There's a couple of deck combinations that do seem very nice, and it actually seems like it actually might beat out Yakuza now as the Stealth deck of choice since you get the same speed boost but now can take 40% faster carry and crouching now too lol

I kind of wish Copycat had actually gone a step further and given you two effects of other decks, even if that means getting rid of one of the generic cards, giving you a much deeper effect of making some really fun combinations, like having the hip flask and gambler healing.

Copycat is the best Stealth deck without any debating about it.
Pocket ECM AND 40% carry speed is just insane with 0 downsides
Or 20% speed if you'd be willing to skip on the ECM

2/9 stoic isn't really too viable but the copycat version might at least be a tiny bit of fun

[Camera Man]

Talking in terms of DS here:
Tried to see if a full Armor Copycated Infiltrator would create any new breakpoints. both still get 2 shot Armor and also 3 Shot Armor with Underdog/QF and Frenzy together. Originally I wanted to say it could act as trading the melee potential so you wouldn't lower your berserker, but I forgot The deck already heals on headshot. So the only thing left is the pesudo Anarchist invincibility which triggers on any hit you take as long you're below 50%, which also counts armor hit. So procs everytime you get hit regardless if you have Frenzy.

If the numbers are correct tho, Full health Copycat Infiltrator gets 414 health which allows Infiltrator to tank 2 Zeal health hits. But with 10% DR (Underdog/QF) and Partners in Crime, you can achieve 3 Health hits. In Comparison to Infiltrator, It could only reach 2 Health hits with Partners in Crime alone. so essentially trades Melee potential for 1 extra health hit.

Wanna talk about Sociopath's copy for abit. Tension isn't a complete substitute to Bullseye as it is a Kill requirement rather than an head hit. So there would be times where you'll be too late to kill but just enough for a shot. So prepare DPS or mostly snipers if you want it to be more reliable. You could say it's tankier than Anarchist, but do keep in mind Anarchist still has better DPS potential overall since you can easily use Berserker with it and Suit is optimal.

[=TBM= [PHE$] cooper]

Originally posted by DLCless Dan:

Copycat is the best Stealth deck without any debating about it.
Pocket ECM AND 40% carry speed is just insane with 0 downsides

Was about to say that.
That's the first thing that came into my mind after reading all cards.


For loud;
I haven't played the perk deck yet. I need to test all combinations in game.
But just from reading; nothing sounds too crazy.

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

Originally posted by =TBM= PHE$ cooper:

Originally posted by DLCless Dan:

Copycat is the best Stealth deck without any debating about it.
Pocket ECM AND 40% carry speed is just insane with 0 downsides

Was about to say that.
That's the first thing that came into my mind after reading all cards.


For loud;
I haven't played the perk deck yet. I need to test all combinations in game.
But just from reading; nothing sounds too crazy.

The only really strong ones so far are the Gambler with Extra Armor, Extra Health, Extra Health, and either Extra Health or Extra Crouch Speed, or With Anarchist when it comes to one of the cards of copycat, which makes it so that you always get a 2 second invincibility window when below 50% health.

But there is more to discover, and there are plenty of viable options here as well.

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

Originally posted by DLCless Dan:

And in theory, 2 can allow you to play a less priority heavy panic muscle build

Yes that is possible, almost as a stun ability, I just don't know if that is better compared to not getting targeted or some of the other combinations, hence why I was I sort of implied that you can do that, but I don't know if it is worthwhile yet or not compared to either having those pocket ECM's, or like I previously mentioned, having some other combinations with Muscle that might be better to have or not. But, I'll experiment further with this idea and come back to this.

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

Originally posted by Camera Man:

Talking in terms of DS here:
Tried to see if a full Armor Copycated Infiltrator would create any new breakpoints. both still get 2 shot Armor and also 3 Shot Armor with Underdog/QF and Frenzy together. Originally I wanted to say it could act as trading the melee potential so you wouldn't lower your berserker, but I forgot The deck already heals on headshot. So the only thing left is the pesudo Anarchist invincibility which triggers on any hit you take as long you're below 50%, which also counts armor hit. So procs everytime you get hit regardless if you have Frenzy.

If the numbers are correct tho, Full health Copycat Infiltrator gets 414 health which allows Infiltrator to tank 2 Zeal health hits. But with 10% DR (Underdog/QF) and Partners in Crime, you can achieve 3 Health hits. In Comparison to Infiltrator, It could only reach 2 Health hits with Partners in Crime alone. so essentially trades Melee potential for 1 extra health hit.

Wanna talk about Sociopath's copy for abit. Tension isn't a complete substitute to Bullseye as it is a Kill requirement rather than an head hit. So there would be times where you'll be too late to kill but just enough for a shot. So prepare DPS or mostly snipers if you want it to be more reliable. You could say it's tankier than Anarchist, but do keep in mind Anarchist still has better DPS potential overall since you can easily use Berserker with it and Suit is optimal.

Yeah I haven't found much use out of Melee so far with this. You might be better just using either Infiltrator or Sociopath on their own, or maybe have a build that uses Melee in a more subtle way, specifically builds that often run berserker and frenzy or one of the two. The Melee playstyle really relies on what makes Infiltrator and Sociopath reliable to use Melee wise, and the trade off of not being able to get either the increased healing, or somewhat increased healing and armor regen seems too lopsided currently to be worth it.

If you have really good accuracy, Tension might as well just be a substitute for Bullseye, that is at least the way I feel about it.

[Victor]

Originally posted by P1nkLem0n4d3:

Originally posted by =TBM= PHE$ cooper:

Was about to say that.
That's the first thing that came into my mind after reading all cards.


For loud;
I haven't played the perk deck yet. I need to test all combinations in game.
But just from reading; nothing sounds too crazy.

The only really strong ones so far are the Gambler with Extra Armor, Extra Health, Extra Health, and either Extra Health or Extra Crouch Speed, or With Anarchist when it comes to one of the cards of copycat, which makes it so that you always get a 2 second invincibility window when below 50% health.

But there is more to discover, and there are plenty of viable options here as well.

what about all health card with sociopath last card? it gives you extra armor for 2 shot ictv and armor gating, if we combined all the health boosts we have an 80%, with a joker, lets you tank 2 heavy shots to the health without dying

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

Originally posted by Skill tissue:

Originally posted by P1nkLem0n4d3:

The only really strong ones so far are the Gambler with Extra Armor, Extra Health, Extra Health, and either Extra Health or Extra Crouch Speed, or With Anarchist when it comes to one of the cards of copycat, which makes it so that you always get a 2 second invincibility window when below 50% health.

But there is more to discover, and there are plenty of viable options here as well.

what about all health card with sociopath last card? it gives you extra armor for 2 shot ictv and armor gating, if we combined all the health boosts we have an 80%, with a joker, lets you tank 2 heavy shots to the health without dying

I was able to test this out right before the perk deck got locked again, and this does work, but I think the better options are to either just run crew chief given its bonuses to have more potential for more additional hits when having both converts as well as continuing getting hostages along with its team bonuses, or you are better off having both increased health and armor, but with some other bonus.

Plus there are already many ways to gain additional hits while getting more worthwhile bonuses with other perk decks such as leech, stoic, anarchist, crew chief, etc... and in terms of using the last cards, biker and gambler which can give an additional useful bonus over the panic.

The more just using muscle and that's it approach with the panic is rather interesting though in terms of being able to stun enemies, but it feels very similar to just default Muscle.

[SD.Laeley-EN-]

The only worthwile combinations for me were - 1. Focusing dodge and mimicking dutch courage - it ends up being only 5 dodge points behind rogue, but it offers a 2s invuln window when getting under half health. I might switch from rogue to this version for a bit, see if it works.

2. Stacking movement speed and mimicking Hacker. As there is bugger all from that deck which is useful for stealth ( sides pocket ecms themselves ), at least this way there is movement speed and reduction in bag hauling time.

The rest either underperforms versus just normal decks, or too gimmicky to bother.

The only real reason to use copycat for loud is that invuln when under half hp, other benefits are more or less ignorable.

[Camera Man]

Originally posted by P1nkLem0n4d3:

Yeah I haven't found much use out of Melee so far with this. You might be better just using either Infiltrator or Sociopath on their own, or maybe have a build that uses Melee in a more subtle way, specifically builds that often run berserker and frenzy or one of the two. The Melee playstyle really relies on what makes Infiltrator and Sociopath reliable to use Melee wise, and the trade off of not being able to get either the increased healing, or somewhat increased healing and armor regen seems too lopsided currently to be worth it.

If you have really good accuracy, Tension might as well just be a substitute for Bullseye, that is at least the way I feel about it.

Infiltrator's niche over Sociopath has always been being passive and at being a health deck (Despite somehow DR makes it feels like it's armor only). So copycated health Infiltrator would be arguably be better over Infiltrator itself but assumes you're not gonna use the melee at all. Infiltrator is basically pure DR with Damage and healing potential from melee, awhile Copycat basically get extras that doesn't make use of melee.

Accuracy is somewhat of a factor, but if your weapon doesn't kill fast enough. you're not gonna get any armor. Unless it's sniper (that isn't 168) or a GL which should gurantee a kill. a good chunk of DPS can be obtained by investing skills tho.

Originally posted by Skill tissue:

what about all health card with sociopath last card? it gives you extra armor for 2 shot ictv and armor gating, if we combined all the health boosts we have an 80%, with a joker, lets you tank 2 heavy shots to the health without dying

Actually never thought about it but yes, 2 Zeal hits to both armor and Health. 2 Zeal health hit is impossible with Sociopath, so copycat changes that with copycat's bonuses but exchanges all melee related potential just like what I said with Infiltrator.