PAYDAY 2

PAYDAY 2

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Brovah (Banned) Jun 9, 2014 @ 5:34pm
WW2 Weapons
Overkill please make this a thing. I'd love to mow down some cops with a BAR, Thompson, MG42, or hell even a Garand.
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Showing 61-75 of 93 comments
Mutant1988 Jun 10, 2014 @ 7:19am 
Originally posted by Lucifer:
Am I the only one who thought the RPK WAS a Thompson? Sure has the look and feel to me...

I know it's based on the actual RPK but still it looks more Thompson than RPK to me.

Get your eyes checked.
Lucifer Jun 10, 2014 @ 7:36am 
Originally posted by Mutant1988:
Get your eyes checked.

It's the foregrip. Never seen an RPK with one... they usually have a bipod near the end of the barrel. I know the overall gun looks nothing like a Thompson (barrel, stock nor drum)...

I consider the Payday 2 version the new and improved Thompson. While the original Tommy Gun might have been a decent weapon, it was designed to be easily disassembled and looked crappy to me.
Last edited by Lucifer; Jun 10, 2014 @ 7:58am
Silberfuchs Jun 10, 2014 @ 8:19am 
Still the comparison is quite awkward for people who know a bit about firearms.

The foregrip is relatively unusual on an RPK, but it's quite common for Romanian AK's. Due to the "modularity" which exists between many Kalashnikov models and their versions of different countries (which is not universal though) it's no big deal modding your weapon that way. Given the way the RPK is used in the game, Gage made a good decision concerning that foregrip.
johnrob Jun 10, 2014 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by ShadowzI:
I feel that a 007 set might be a better ideal.

they already have the walther PPK in the game (gruber kurz) and that is THE 007 gun.

It also sort of defeats the purpose of a .38 revolver, since it's chambered in .380, has a higher capacity, is more concealable, and can be suppressed.
Last edited by johnrob; Jun 10, 2014 @ 10:58am
Brovah (Banned) Jun 10, 2014 @ 11:13am 
Originally posted by sX-eJoker86GERT:
Originally posted by Shifty Powers:

Yes because adding weapons in to a heist game is wrong and should only be in Battlefield?
You can still buy a Thompson illegally...

But that's it - why would you buy a Thompson if you could also buy an UMP? And in difference to the Thompson the UMP does not climb drastically while shooting (because the stock and the muzzle are on the same height, in difference to the Thompson) and weights less than half of what the Thompson weights. You can attach a lot of tactical stuff to the UMP without any tinkering, you can switch it from right handed to left handed use, and the UMP is much better concealable. It's just a much more appealing gun that the Thompson. And this happens to all WW2 guns - they are simply outdated.
Both guns are terrible. I've shot both and the kick back is horrid. Vector on the other hand is an amazing adaptation into the 45. SMG family tree.
BridgetFisher Jun 10, 2014 @ 11:36am 
I dont want outdated junk weapons in a modern game. They would get pwned in real life with those antiques against real cops, why not just ask for muskets?
Cleric 110 Jun 10, 2014 @ 5:26pm 
Originally posted by BridgetFisher:
I dont want outdated junk weapons in a modern game. They would get pwned in real life with those antiques against real cops, why not just ask for muskets?

I personally have a Yugoslavian post-war refit of a wartime 8mm Mauser K98k, and it shoots roughly 2 MOA, bone stock, with open combat sights, and after sitting in cosmoline for 70 years.

Now, in real life, none of the sniper rifles make sense, since no one in their right mind would carry a long bolt-action rifle in a close urban setting such as Payday, but plenty of old guns work perfectly well. The M308 is based on the M14 action, a modified Garand action (partially hybridized with the M1 Carbine design), all the AR-15s (AMCAR, CAR-4, AMR-16, and Para SMG) started off in the 60s, and, by extension, based on the AR-10 in the late 50s. All the AKs in game are based off the original rifle in 1947 (the AK.762 being a 50s AKM, the AK being an AK-74, a rechambering of an AKM, IZHMA 12k or Saiga 12K a shotgun variant, and the RPK being a heavy variant of an AK-47). Even the "Grease Barrel" attachment for the Swedish K SMG is made to make the gun look like a WWII-era M3 "Grease Gun."

Technically, the only guns that didn't have predecessors in WWII, or immediately after, are the Glocks (Chimano 88, Chimano Custom, and STRYK 18c) and the AUG (UAR).
Crow's Eye Jun 10, 2014 @ 5:44pm 
Originally posted by Harmonica:
This isn't about battlefield, it's about the classics :)
(links)

Fixed at least two of those links for you.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Dillinger_(1973)
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Public_Enemies

Personally, I would absolutely love to see the Thompson, BAR and MG42 in Payday 2. Nothing says keep your head down like the BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP of the MG42.

Of course, I would also love to see the FN FAL
http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/a3/Heat-FNFAL.jpg

And the K-50M with a 72-round magazine
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/chiangshan3012/k50m_1.jpg
Brovah (Banned) Jun 10, 2014 @ 5:50pm 
Originally posted by Khârn:
Originally posted by Harmonica:
This isn't about battlefield, it's about the classics :)
(links)

Fixed at least two of those links for you.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Dillinger_(1973)
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Public_Enemies

Personally, I would absolutely love to see the Thompson, BAR and MG42 in Payday 2. Nothing says keep your head down like the BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP of the MG42.

Of course, I would also love to see the FN FAL
http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/a3/Heat-FNFAL.jpg

And the K-50M with a 72-round magazine
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/chiangshan3012/k50m_1.jpg
FAL will be in the Big Bank Heist released next week.
mutanteggs Jun 10, 2014 @ 5:54pm 
Originally posted by BridgetFisher:
I dont want outdated junk weapons in a modern game. They would get pwned in real life with those antiques against real cops, why not just ask for muskets?
yeah thats why we use aks
Brovah (Banned) Jun 10, 2014 @ 6:00pm 
Originally posted by mutanteggs:
Originally posted by BridgetFisher:
I dont want outdated junk weapons in a modern game. They would get pwned in real life with those antiques against real cops, why not just ask for muskets?
yeah thats why we use aks
AKs are nearly 70 yeards old. Same with all the weapons we've been talking about.
Silberfuchs Jun 11, 2014 @ 2:10am 
It's true that many guns in the game are pretty old. I already admitted that the Gruber Kurz (Walther PPK) and the Swedish K (CG M.45) are basically from the 2nd WW era, but you also always have to look at the concept which was behind a gun, and you seem to forget that after 1945, or rather towards the end of 1944 in Germany already, the infantryman was looked at with different eyes.

At the beginning of WW2 many instructors excessively trained bayonett fighting with their troops, because since the Napoleonic era (!!!) rifles were considered shooting pikes, where the main part the pike, and the bonus part the shooting were. You have good evidence for this behaviour in WW1, were soldiers were often ordered to empty their rifles before rushing the enemy trench, the English even had a lever to disable the magazines of the SMLE rifles. Often the generals thought that shooting was wasted on the rabble they saw in their soldiers. They would quickly shoot off all ammo they had, would miss everything, and if the weapon would be of any better quality they'd sure break it.

As you might know, most armies started in WW2 with pretty much the same equipment like WW1. The only difference was, that some weapons from the beginning of WW1 or tested during its course were now fully implemented, mainly tanks, but also machine guns and submachine guns, sniper rifles and, to a certain extend, light mortars. But only the Germans really knew how to use tanks properly (in tank divisions, cooperating closely with the air force), whereas the Russians at least knew how important snipers were.

During WW2 the Germans tried to invent "super weapons" with which they would finally gain victory, and this thinking of constantly improving and rethinking concepts made the first test semi-automatic rifles (which was no new idea in itself) and finally lead to the invention of the Maschinenkarabiner 42, the first prototype of an assault rifle. The idea was to give every soldier a combination of a rifle and a submachinegun, whereas before they could either have one or the other. To achieve this they invented a new cartridge which was between pistol and rifle cartridge size.

Towards the end of the WW2, the role of the single infantryman had changed. Due to special troops like the German and American paratroopers, special commandos like the SAS or OSS, the incredibly effective snipers of this era which had several hundred confirmed kills and others, the generals became aware of the potential well equipped infantry had.

The Russians had developed a very modern concept shortly after the end of WW2, in the 50's already I think, where each platoon would be equipped with AK's, an RPK and an RPG-7, later the Dragunov SVD was added. Their purpose was to support the tanks in their charge, and to clean out the surviving rest of that attack. To achieve this infantry should be mainly mechanized to be able to keep up with the pace of the tanks. This was a quite modern concept, which again was revolutionized in the 70's with the Yom Kippur war, were (Egyptian) infantry, due to guided missiles, was even able to repell attacks from tanks and from the air, making infantry an important part of the army again, instead of a neccessary evil.

The AK might be a very old weapon, yes, but the concept behind it is still modern and actual, and there is an actual caesura between the invention of assault rifles and the concepts of (early) WW2. The mechanism of the AK is old, but still highly functional, and was even used as a base for the Swiss Sig550 rifle, the big brother of our car-553. The construction of the AK has the right ideas in mind, and the new AK weapons are very good and very popular guns among professionals.

Something similar happened to the M14, which is basically a M1 Garand with a BAR magazine, but it was not that revolutionary. It's not really an assault rifle, more of a combat rifle, but similar to the idea of the SVD it was reintroduced as a designated marksman rifle, some time after it was declared obsolete due to the trend of armies in the 60's to switch to smaller round calibers (A trend which many professionals regret, btw.).

So as long as the conept is right, weapons have their justification.

But the concepts of bolt-action combat rifles, clip loaded semi-automatic combat rifles, 20-rnd. magazine automatic rifles or similar stuff are just outtadet. It wouldn't convince nowadays any more. And those concepts which still work, for example pistols and SMGs, have been improved in quality so much, that there is no sense in using the old ones any more.

You wouldn't want to escape in a car from the 1920's when being chased by modern police cars, right? So why would you engage a firefight with old weapons?
Last edited by Silberfuchs; Jun 11, 2014 @ 2:24am
BridgetFisher Jun 11, 2014 @ 2:17am 
Originally posted by Brovah:
Originally posted by mutanteggs:
yeah thats why we use aks
AKs are nearly 70 yeards old. Same with all the weapons we've been talking about.
I dont use that in the game? Its there more for history buffs since compared to modern firearms its a joke. No modern military uses it in the first world. neither would bank robbers who are using the best of the best Sam Fisher Style. Speaking of this game needs thermal suits so that they cant be seen when moving in shadows.
Mutant1988 Jun 11, 2014 @ 2:21am 
Originally posted by sX-eJoker86GERT:
During WW2 the Germans tried to invent "super weapons" with which they would finally gain victory, and this thinking of constantly improving and rethinking concepts made the first test semi-automatic rifles (which was no new idea in itself) and finally lead to the invention of the Maschinenkarabiner 42, the first prototype of an assault rifle. The idea was to give every soldier a combination of a rifle and a submachinegun, whereas before they could either have one or the other. To achieve this they invented a new cartridge which was between pistol and rifle cartridge size.

Intermediate rounds pre-date the STG 44. Notably, the US employed the intermediate .30 Carbine round with their M1 Carbines, a whole 5 years before the prototype STG 43. So no, they didn't really invent the intermediate cartridge.

They did however create the concept for a standardized infantry weapon, as you said, combining the abilities of a sub machine gun and rifle in a single weapon.

Originally posted by BridgetFisher:
Its there more for history buffs since compared to modern firearms its a joke.

Proving that you know nothing at all about fire arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:AK47_derivatives

That many manufacturers would not base their weapon designs on a bad original design.

Originally posted by BridgetFisher:
No modern military uses it in the first world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47#Users
Last edited by Mutant1988; Jun 11, 2014 @ 2:34am
Silberfuchs Jun 11, 2014 @ 2:28am 
Originally posted by Mutant1988:
Intermediate rounds pre-date the STG 44. Notably, the US employed the intermediate .30 Carbine round with their M1 Carbines, a whole 5 years before the prototype STG 43. So no, they didn't really invent the intermediate cartridge.

They did however create the concept for a standardized infantry weapon, as you said, combining the abilities of a sub machine gun and rifle in a single weapon.

Perhaps I was expressing myself unclearly:

They invented the first working intermediate round.

The .30 indeed was meant to pose something between a pistol/submachine gun and a real rifle, mainly meant for use for truck drivers, artillery crews and others, but it turned out to be nothing more than a little bigger pistol round (especially if you consider the shape of it without the "neck"), and in the winter some thicker jackets were able to stop that bullet. There was a joke where it has been said that you need five shots with the .30 carbine to make a German really angry.

The 7,92x30 was strong enough to wound mortally on 300m, which was (and still is) considered the real maximum combat range for infantry.
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Date Posted: Jun 9, 2014 @ 5:34pm
Posts: 93