Fighting Winters with regular guns

[Malidictus]

Yes, I'm aware that you can just bring an RPG or toss a ♥♥♥♥-ton of explosives or molotovs or a Thanatos and so on. Let's just say for a second that I don't want to do that, that I have a regular rifle, one other person with a rifle and two bots. I want to explore the ways of fighting Winters using that specific setup that I've discovered so far. I'll update the OP as necessary, and I would very much like to hear your feedback on these ideas.

I am not, however, interested in ignoring him or taking him out with anything other than the very basic weapon categories of rifles, pistols, etc.

Hotline Miami D1:

Winters appears near the East DeLorean location in a REALLY bad spot with very little cover. If your DeLorean showed up on the West, however, you'll have mana from heaven in the form of the Russian mobsters' van, which is a tremendously powerful defensive position. Since we obviously have to flank Winters, that gives us one side of the equation. If the van isn't there, then the corner of the Motel should serve as similar, albeit less good cover.

I found that the best position for the "other" player is actually AAALL the way over on the second floor of the Motel's West Wing. It's a fair distance away so a good scope or at least an accurate gun is necessary, but this gives Player 2 a good defensive position and a strong flanking position, as well.

Hoxton Breakout D2:

Winters appears in the Lobbt and puts himself in a really nasty spot. The obvious strong position to attack him from is the FBI Director's office as that puts you directly over his head. We'll put Player 1 there. This gives said player a very, very strong defensive position and a very powerful vantage point on Winters with access to two avenues of approach 90 degrees apart - the office windows and the railing just outside the office door.

If the IT Department spawed upstairs, then Player 2 can use the upstairs area near it, as the IT Department can provide a lot of cover. Alternatley, if the Security Office spawned upstairs and was already opened, that's also a good position as Player 2 can retreat into the office for cover and shield regeneration. However, if neither option happened, then that's actually a BAD spot. It seems, then, that the next best position is the desk in the entryway to the Archives. The desk itself offers solid cover with room to manoeuvre, plus the door frame is pretty handy, as well.

Hoxton Revenge:

Winters shows up in the back yard near the Back Yard Turret. There isn't a lot of cover over there, however. It seems to me like Player 1 can take cover behind a large rock near the map bnoundary fence. The fence itself should provide cover from snipers from the building behind, but it's not a very strong defensive position. Snipers from the hill house can still sometimes have line of sight. I'm not entirely sure what to do on that map for player 1, to be honest.

Player 2 can stay inside the house and fire on Winters and his crew from the second floor. This is best done from either the Right Wing upstairs sitting room (where one would normally fight the Back Yard Turret from) or the Left Wing closet where the Panic Room sometimes spawns. That would require a decently-accurate weapon, however.

Alesso Heist:

Winters shows up in the main lobby. There aren't any really good positions to fight him from, unfortunately. Player 1 more or less HAS to run around to the main entrance and hide in the little entryway. I don't know if cops come in from there (I'm guessing they do, but I might have caught a break when I did it), but at least that spot offers good cover from Winters.

Player 2 could technically stay on the third floor panoramic deck, but that's TOO large a split. Instead, I'd suggest staying either on the stairs leading up to the rest of the map, or maybe hiding in the popcorn stand. The stairs offer good cover from Winters but NOT from encroachers. My team-mate at the time barely made it out alive.

Big Oil D2:

Winters didn't show up on Day 1 at all. On Day 2, he showed up in the villa car park, just inside of the outer gate. Player 1 (me, in this case) can stand outside of the outside gate and use the fence wall as cover. Sometimes cops encroach from behind, but all I saw were a few canaries and a couple of shields - nothing I couldn't handle, plus that entire area is covered from Winters and his cronies. Hilariously (tough I know that's not how the game works) I could fire through the little slits in the exterior wall as though through an embrasure.

Player 2 stayed at the house with a long-range weapon, in this case a Para SMG. The shields primarily faced me, so he had pretty good opportunity to pelt at the Phalanx Shiedls' heads from behind. The villa offers pretty good cover for Player 2, but you do need a decent long-range weapon to pull that off. I assume Player 2 could also probably hold out on long berm in front of the house, but this seems unwise as that offers little cover from encrouachers.

Big Bank:

Winters shows up in the little antechamber at the front entrance. It turns out the outside of the bank is pretty safe (relatively speaking) once Winters has arrived since all the cops seem to be spawning further inside the bank. Player 1 can then stand outside in the street near one of the vestubule entrances and pepper Winters' Phalanx with bullets when they turn around.

Player 2 can probably snipe from inside the lobby's balcony with a decent long-range weapon, but we discovered that he can just walk out into the street and stand on the other side of the antechamber. This puts Winters under HORRIBLE crossfire and we can more or less just take turns shooting into their backs. I'll need more epxerience with this, but if the street is as safe as this, then the Big Bank may not be that bad.

Rats D1/Cook Off

First of all, this requires exploiting how spawns work on that map. Bain will tell you where cops will be coming from. If theyr'e coming from "the forest next to the road," then hole up in the house and wait them out. Getting to Winters with cops literally coming out of the woodwork proved impossible. Wait for them to switch direction, preferably for them to start coming from the Lumber Mill on the opposite side of the map. Then ehad for Winters.

Player 1 needs to walk almost all the way to the left of the map. In the far side by the edge of the forest where a hill blocks your path is a large rock past the wood fence. This gives Player 1 pretty good cover from Winters and a fairly stable position. Getting there might be a bit tricky since it's a long trek. Watch for Cloakers under the white car and near the concre slab pallet. So long as cops aren't spawning on top of you, you should be fine.

Player 2 should stay inside the house with a long-range weapon. Winters and his cronies are clearly visible from the upstairs "broadside" windows. You don't need a sniper rifle, but a scoped weapon is highly advised. Wait for Player 1 to draw enemy fire and shoot the shields in the back. Better yet, your elevated position allows you to fire on Winters without having to go through his Phalanx. Shoot him in the head, make him retreat, then the rest of his backup dancers are easy to pick off one by one. Or not - leave 'em alone. They won't bother you.

White Christmas, Watchdogs

I have no idea what to do on either of those heists. I've fought and defeated Winters on all of them, but I don't think we did it "properly." What would you guys suggest I do? Where do I stand?

I've not fought Winters on other maps (that I can recall) so I don't even know where he shows up.

[Empress Misery]

Big Bank has a balcony all the way round and pretty defensible rooms downstairs. Should be easy from any of those?

[Malidictus]

Yeah, but Winters doesn't camp in the lobby. He caps in the front door area. The only way to flank him is for someone to literally go outside the bank. In a way, I wish he WOULD camp out inside the lobby. That way we have some degree of a decent position against him. Outside the front door just leaves me scratching my head.

[Empress Misery]

If he's far enough outside, you could always use the construction tower and then just hang around the desk side of the front door? :D

[Toyfan1]

The Diamond is probably the most annoying spot for him.

[*.)]

Tripmines work great. As soon as you hear "the Cpt. is coming", deploy four at that spot (switch immediatly to sensormode or off). Shoot one to make them cascade, preferable just before he is in formation. Four charges did it for me. (I think the most efficient vanilla way).

Requires to be fast tho.

I'm still working on running around and deploying, but I guess that will work on most maps aswell.

I'm worried more about regular cops tbh. They hurt me more, Cpt'seems to be unable to hit as I move.

I know it's not a regular gun, but it is basegame and very solid.

[qweqweqwe]

How to kill him with regular vanilla:
-Slowly work towards it like your solutions.
-Bring Trip Mines.
-Use ECM Feedback.
-Forget the 3 slower ways(ok tripmines could be fast too) above & shift + w,a,d,proc Swag Song,then hold m1 behind him untill he runs away due to lack of cojones.

[drewbstar]

Why do all this when you can buy more DLC?




;)


But yeah, he is pretty much no different from any other shield. Honestly, the best option is to get Player 1 to camp west, Player B to camp east, Player three to shoot from the north, and Player $ to do it from the south.
Or something to that degree.

If not, use vertical ledges and stuff. I've had them target me while someone snuck up the flank and SMG'd shields to death from total point blank range.

[Pyro Fennec]

I'm a little unclear as to what effect Winters even has while alive. I mean, unless his shieldwall sets up in an essential pathing area, you never really have to bother with killing him, as his own threat seems to be... negligible. Does he buff the local cops or specials somehow while he's alive? Should killing him be a priority when he's not camping a major traffic area you use?

[drewbstar]

Originally posted by Pyro Fennec:

I'm a little unclear as to what effect Winters even has while alive. I mean, unless his shieldwall sets up in an essential pathing area, you never really have to bother with killing him, as his own threat seems to be... negligible. Does he buff the local cops or specials somehow while he's alive? Should killing him be a priority when he's not camping a major traffic area you use?

Yes.
He can stop headshots?, buffs their health, changes tactics and stuff.
He can also do some things like insta-custody?, reduces his self-explosive damage, and mess with shields or something.
(Not sure)
tl;dr he is worth killing.

[qweqweqwe]

Originally posted by Pyro Fennec:

I'm a little unclear as to what effect Winters even has while alive. I mean, unless his shieldwall sets up in an essential pathing area, you never really have to bother with killing him, as his own threat seems to be... negligible. Does he buff the local cops or specials somehow while he's alive? Should killing him be a priority when he's not camping a major traffic area you use?

Serious answer:
The longer he stays alive,the more damage reduction that cops get.(Think Dragan's Infiltrator except on cops instead).

If you let him live for a very long time,it would reach the maximum dmg reduction which is 50%,then it would take around 6 Thany shots to kill a Dozer,2 120 dmg M308 shots to kill a Tan,etc.

Basically it makes the cops more bullet-spongy...while Cpt Loser himself & his backup dancers,i mean,Shield Bodyguards are Bullet Spongy.

[Hoxi]

We always followed the same strategy with my team, circle strade and shoot, can't say anything about map-specific strategies and weapons as we always did the same. A friend of mine decided to try out his tactical nukes, err, tripmines and only 1 instantly destroyed them as they were moving in, they went flying everywhere. There was one Shield left, that was on OVK tho.

Best way seems to constantly circle strafe and shoot, more than one person doing it makes it easier obviously, doesn't matter which guns you're using, manage your ammo as you do with everything else, use ammo bags.

One little detail that I didn't see anywhere else is that Counter-Strike (basic or ace) can stun then as it does with regular Shields, that skill and the Buzzer are the only capable things that can stun them from what I've seen and tested.

[Malidictus]

I tried circle-strafing the shields, but I'm using ICTV + LMG, so my running speed is not great. That means I need to be pretty close to the Shield Wall and eat a lot of damage doing it. Plus, my accuracy while sprinting isn't very good so I end up wasting ammo. I'll try it again, however. Really wish Iron Man Ace would work on those shields, though.

I'm personally looking for a way to kill Winters with basically whatever guns we happened to bring into the map. I'm sure ECMs and Trip Mines are very useful against him, but I'd rather not feel compelled to bring those things myself or ask other people to do so. None of the people I know personally use Trip Mines, so that means relying on pubbies and... Yeah, that's not likely to work.

Originally posted by Empress Misery:

If he's far enough outside, you could always use the construction tower and then just hang around the desk side of the front door? :D

Wait, construction tower?

[Malidictus]

A few more bits of hands-on experience that I'll edit back into the OP:

Big Oil D2:

Winters didn't show up on Day 1 at all. On Day 2, he showed up in the villa car park, just inside of the outer gate. Player 1 (me, in this case) can stand outside of the outside gate and use the fence wall as cover. Sometimes cops encroach from behind, but all I saw were a few canaries and a couple of shields - nothing I couldn't handle, plus that entire area is covered from Winters and his cronies. Hilariously (tough I know that's not how the game works) I could fire through the little slits in the exterior wall as though through an embrasure.

Player 2 stayed at the house with a long-range weapon, in this case a Para SMG. The shields primarily faced me, so he had pretty good opportunity to pelt at the Phalanx Shiedls' heads from behind. The villa offers pretty good cover for Player 2, but you do need a decent long-range weapon to pull that off. I assume Player 2 could also probably hold out on long berm in front of the house, but this seems unwise as that offers little cover from encrouachers.

Big Bank:

Winters shows up in the little antechamber at the front entrance. It turns out the outside of the bank is pretty safe (relatively speaking) once Winters has arrived since all the cops seem to be spawning further inside the bank. Player 1 can then stand outside in the street near one of the vestubule entrances and pepper Winters' Phalanx with bullets when they turn around.

Player 2 can probably snipe from inside the lobby's balcony with a decent long-range weapon, but we discovered that he can just walk out into the street and stand on the other side of the antechamber. This puts Winters under HORRIBLE crossfire and we can more or less just take turns shooting into their backs. I'll need more epxerience with this, but if the street is as safe as this, then the Big Bank may not be that bad.

Watchdogs:

This is going to be more general impressions, but... Winters really should show up on Day 2, not Day 1. He takes so long to turn up that we have to intentionally wait for him, and even when he appears it's pretty trivial to just ignore him - he just shows up too late. That map already has a Turret and enough to do, it doesn't need Winters on top of everything.

Day 2, on the other hand, doesn't have Winters and is much poorer for it. Day 2 of Watchdogs may well be the dullest, least eventful map in the entirety of Payday 2. It should have been the logical place to add Winters. There's plenty of room for him either outside the main gate or in the open space in the warehouse courtyard and the map really needs something to spice up the crushing boredom of sitting on our hands and spawn-camping the cops.

[*.)]

You can set a sentry within his formation. All shields will look to the inside, easy shooting.

[Malidictus]

I considered this, actually. A friend of mine has fully-upgraded Sentries and I know from experience those things are EVIL. I worry, however, that the Sentry will run out of ammo before we can do enough damage to the shields.

I'm trying to devise tactics for fighting Winters which don't depend on specific equipment, though, so Sentries will probably be a "for when they're available" tactic if they do end up working like you say.