Ex-President Perk Deck EHP Analysis

[Thauma]

Based on the health increase of 40%, the 5% dodge at all times, and the 20% dodge granted to ballistic vest users, here's the EHP for the Ex-Presidents setup.

At 100% Health, implying Underdog Aced, Duck and Cover Aced, Sprinter Aced, and Thick Skin Aced

Suit - 473.35 Standing / 574.78 Crouch / 670.58 Sprint

LBV - 460.67 Standing / 547.05 Crouch / 625.2 Sprint

BV - 449.41 Standing / 528.71 Crouch / 599.21 Sprint

HVB - 461.2 Standing / 512.4 Crouch / 576.5 Sprint

FJ - 461.2 at all times

CTV - 484.7 at all times

ICTV - 578.8 at all times

For reference, here's the comparison to other commonly used and similar decks

Suit + Muscle = 567.3 Standing / 680.8 Crouch / 785.5 Sprint

Suit + Rogue = 452.5 Standing / 588.2 Crouch / 735.3 Sprint

Suit + Grinder = 447.1 Standing / 536.5 Crouch / 619.0 Sprint

LBV + Grinder = 437.6 Standing and Crouch / 460.7 Sprint

Stored health and armor regen are entirely for restorative purposes and do not count toward Effective Hit Points.

The dodge increase to Ballistic Vests does nothing to make any LBV, BV, or HBV user have more EHP at any time than one with a suit. A suit should be the only armor used, providing the highest EHP of all armors below a CTV and the equivalent EHP while Crouching to that of an ICTV user of the same deck without Bulletproof Basic.

In comparison to other applicable decks (not factoring in the health/armor regens of Ex-President), it is weaker in protection to Suit + Muscle or Suit + Rogue. I believe that until the Perk Deck rebalance (when that should ever come), Grinder has been rendered almost obsolete, if not for the fact that Grinder can regen health at all times while this can only regen health upon armor recovering. The big difference is that this deck can store up health for the restoration more easily than Grinder since team kills count toward the health regen pool.

TL;DR - Slightly better than Grinder Suit because of easier health regen. Objectively worse at raw protection compared to Suit + Muscle or Suit + Rogue. Using any ballistic vest with this deck is a waste of time and using a CTV/ICTV is far better using Infiltrator/Armorer/etc.

[Páv]

So i was wondering, is ex-president really good for armor users ?

[Fino]

Publicado originalmente por *.):

Publicado originalmente por Bomjus 2.0:

and ex president is not affected by other ex presidents. you are healed by health stored from you and your team mates killing stuff. that simple. no interactions with other decks.

First card: "While your armor is up, you will store 4 health for every 1 enemie you or your crew kills".

Doesn't that mean that ex presidents boost eachother? Similar to Gambler where they don't stack -the effects work seperatly, but still boost eachother?

Haven't found time to testplay, but I do know 2 Gamblers on a team works wonders.

No,the boost from teammates comes regardless of which perk deck they are using.

[Thauma]

Publicado originalmente por Cash.net WazhaDoh:

So i was wondering, is ex-president really good for armor users ?

Absolutely not. The EHP from using a suit is much higher than using any armor other than a CTV/ICTV. But using those armors with their appropriate decks (Muscle/Infiltrator/Armorer/etc.) would be objectively more protective than this deck.

Using armor only makes your maximum regen pool lower and the dodge increases to ballistic vests change nothing.

[*.)]

Publicado originalmente por Fino:

[

No,the boost from teammates comes regardless of which perk deck they are using.

Yes, but a non Ex president wont have the benefits.

[*.)]

messed up my quote.

Only ex presidents will benefit, so if more ex presidents are on the team, you should be able to boost eachother.

[Bob]

Publicado originalmente por Bomjus 2.0:

Publicado originalmente por Bob:

How do you address the last Skill on Ex-President "The Perfect Line"? - with "Die Hard" and "Bulletproof" would be an almost instant armor regen (don't know the fixed number how much you get for a kill) - a fast armor recovery rate not hindered by armor surpression - and a LBV with Thick Skin and Bulletproof would be on 65 Armor - Could that be better as Suit+Ex-President? Just in tankiness

For me it looks like Ex-President should be played somewhat like a Fugi/Tech

the idea of making a fugitive tech build just to make this deck work should answer your question.

Only interested in those numbers. And why is a Fugi/Tech a bad idea? - I do understand the lack of utility - but OVK just made a perk deck which has synergies with Enf/Tech/Fugi in raw tankiness so i am looking how to fit that perk deck to be worthful

Sadly atm i don't see that perk deck fits so i am asking

[Yung Dab]

ex presidents stores 12 health per kill from any of your team mates (with 9/9 in the perk deck) this is REGARDLESS of whatever perk they are using. this is nothing like gambler. just think of it like this. anyone kills a cop = 12 health stored for the user of ex president. thats it.

and a perk deck that requires you to lose your armor to heal will never be as effective as grinder or muscle where you dont have to take damage to heal. throw a shuriken with grinder, or hide with muscle. heal. i already explained this in a previous comment but ill say it again. if you heal up to 80% and are knocked down to 30% for some reason, that means you are skating on thin ice, building up stored health, and hoping the next time your armor goes down it comes back before you get downed. it only gives 5 extra dodge over grinder in a suit. unless grinder regen gets nerfed this perk deck is a liability on deathwish. it is free though so it gets points for that. if i didnt have grinder id probably be using it. or just be in an ICTV with muscle.

also LBV with ex presidents only gives you 5% dodge with 65 armor. not comparable to 15% dodge with 20 armor in terms of effective hp. sure the armor regen might be useful but even if you take the regen skill youd be better off wasting the 50% armor bonus and STILL using a suit lol. only time you probably want to use the LBV over a suit is with crook.

Publicado originalmente por Sakhari:

It'd be significantly better if it didn't dump all of your stored health whether you needed it or not. As is, the storage meter is always full when I don't need it and empty when I do. The EHP for a suit build may be slightly better than Grinder but in terms of overall heist performance, Grinder has still been much more reliable in my experience.

adding this again because its a much more succint summary of what i was trying to explain.

[Email Soup]

While on paper and with calculations, the deck may seem to provide the highest surviviability, keep in mind that the playstyle of the deck has one common problem with grinder.
When you get up from a revival, or you get sniped, it becomes extremely hard to stay alive. (For deathwish, anyway) With grinder, you will be revived with a very small amont of dodge chance, hopefully enough to get into cover to hit some enemies before you go down again. Same problem with ex-pres, but it's more severe. Since you're at miniscule health, banking on the fact that you will be able to regenerate your armor after it breaks is not a good playstyle.

[Yung Dab]

Publicado originalmente por Email Soup:

While on paper and with calculations, the deck may seem to provide the highest surviviability, keep in mind that the playstyle of the deck has one common problem with grinder.
When you get up from a revival, or you get sniped, it becomes extremely hard to stay alive. (For deathwish, anyway) With grinder, you will be revived with a very small amont of dodge chance, hopefully enough to get into cover to hit some enemies before you go down again. Same problem with ex-pres, but it's more severe. Since you're at miniscule health, banking on the fact that you will be able to regenerate your armor after it breaks is not a good playstyle.

adding onto this grinder is 48 hp over 6 seconds with damaging one enemy without needing to break your armor. just throw a shuriken at a taser or cloaker (or a tan if youre desperate) and let the poison damage from the shuriken start stacking grinder procs. can do this with the molotov too. much more reliable than being revived with little hp and then have to wade into danger to get your health back.

[Email Soup]

Publicado originalmente por Bomjus 2.0:

Publicado originalmente por Email Soup:

While on paper and with calculations, the deck may seem to provide the highest surviviability, keep in mind that the playstyle of the deck has one common problem with grinder.
When you get up from a revival, or you get sniped, it becomes extremely hard to stay alive. (For deathwish, anyway) With grinder, you will be revived with a very small amont of dodge chance, hopefully enough to get into cover to hit some enemies before you go down again. Same problem with ex-pres, but it's more severe. Since you're at miniscule health, banking on the fact that you will be able to regenerate your armor after it breaks is not a good playstyle.

adding onto this grinder is 48 hp over 6 seconds with damaging one enemy without needing to break your armor. just throw a shuriken at a taser or cloaker (or a tan if youre desperate) and let the poison damage from the shuriken start stacking grinder procs. can do this with the molotov too. much more reliable than being revived with little hp and then have to wade into danger to get your health back.

I've actually been experimenting a lot with the new perk deck.
A VERY stupid, and I mean stupid, way to play with the deck can be to bring an HE shotgun with you, and simply break your armor on your own to regain health in cover.
Not going to lie though, the instant regeneration from killing multiple enemies is a nice perk to have. After a thorough amount of plays with it, I can say that it's just a very deprived version of crook, with a situational health regen/armor regen mechanic similar to sociopath. Not a bad deck for lmgs.

[[RAIDING] CAS]

I always run muscle, I had it on me in my ictv and now I have it on me in a suit. Side note: I always have chameleon aced when I use muscle.

If they nerf muscle and they lower the regen then let them do, I have hostage taker aced so I will not notice much about the nerf.

I am not testing grinder to see how I run deathwish with it, if I go down fast or it does not suit my playstyle I will return to good old muscle asap.

[TBLackey]

Publicado originalmente por Bob:

How do you address the last Skill on Ex-President "The Perfect Line"? - with "Die Hard" and "Bulletproof" would be an almost instant armor regen (don't know the fixed number how much you get for a kill) - a fast armor recovery rate not hindered by armor surpression - and a LBV with Thick Skin and Bulletproof would be on 65 Armor - Could that be better as Suit+Ex-President? Just in tankiness

I factored it in this way, below:

1. Choose the hit damage you want to withstand twice after both your dodges fail and before invulnerability kicks in
2. Choose how fast you want to run - that will limit your armor choice
3. Minimise the time to recover health and armor. Non-regen Perks have infinite health recovery time if there is no health pickups left on the heist
4. Maximise dodge

Using any kind of armor:

450 damage x2 shots Suit Dodge Muscle recovery: 116 seconds
400 damage x2: ICTV Bulletproof Armorer recovery: 2.7 seconds (no health damage)
300 Damage x2 ICTV Bulletproof ExPresident recovery: <3 seconds (killing for armor recovery)
200 damage x2: HBV Dodge Thick Skin Bulletproof Crook recovery: 2.7 seconds (no health)
100 damage x2: BV Dodge Thick Skin Crook recovery: 2.7 seconds
No damage: Suit Dodge Rogue

Taking out ICTV:
450 damage x2 shots: Suit Dodge Muscle recovery: 116 seconds
400 damage x2: Dodge Muscle recover: 102 seconds
300 Damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery:10 seconds
200 damage x2: HBV Dodge Thick Skin Bulletproof Crook recovery: 2.7 seconds (no health)
100 damage x2: BV Dodge Thick Skin Crook recovery: 2.7 seconds
No damage: Suit Dodge Rogue

Then take out CTV, Flak Jacket, HBV:
450 damage x2 shots: Suit Dodge Muscle recovery: 116 seconds
400 damage x2: Dodge Muscle recover: 102 seconds
300 Damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery: 10 seconds
200 damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery 7 seconds
100 damage x2: BV Dodge Thick Skin Crook recovery: 2.7 seconds
No damage: Suit Dodge Rogue

And then take out BV:
450 damage x2 shots: Suit Dodge Muscle recovery: 116 seconds
400 damage x2: Dodge Muscle recover: 102 seconds
300 Damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery: 10 seconds
200 damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery 7 seconds
100 damage x2:LBV Dodge Thick Skin Bulletproof Crook recovery: 2.7 seconds
No damage: Suit Dodge Rogue

Suits only:
450 damage x2 shots: Suit Dodge Muscle recovery: 116 seconds
400 damage x2: Dodge Muscle recover: 102 seconds
300 Damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery: 10 seconds
200 damage x2: Suit Dodge Grinder recovery 7 seconds
100 damage x2: Dodge Grinder recovery: 4 seconds
No damage: Suit Dodge Rogue

[TBLackey]

Lots of niches filled by different perks.

[Haze_Ventura]

pls stop talking about grinder gets nerfed...you know that ovk is listening...

[AonGreyFox]

Most of time I find ex-pre is worst than Muscle. Team-kill range is hellist small. All store HP are lose when recovery even you lose only 1 hp and have 100 hp store. If not nade yourself, hard to get a proper recovery without losing some HP in tight situation.

Recovery on armor break, add more range for team kill and use only HP you need to recovery should make this perk much more visible.

Armory recovery time also nerf to be longer due to this perk arrival (from 3 sec. to 5 sec. if I'm not mistaken.