Ramblings regarding community attitude

[Pyro Fennec]

After some consideration, I think I've finally hit on what is it that so rubs me the wrong way about the anti-Overkill sentiment.

Let me preface this by saying this is not a defence of microtransactions, nor is it a claim that they are flawless. I, too, facepalmed on the first day when they rolled that change out. I facepalmed at some other Overkill decisions before and since. I do not deny that they make mistakes, and I would like to see those mistakes fixed to the benefit of all involved parties.

That said...

I still enjoy the game. I love popping in for a couple of heists every other day or so. The core of the game has not, in my eyes, changed at all significantly since I started playing, and still brings me great enjoyment. And here's where the problem with the forum community comes up.

See, I keep seeing the sentiment crop up that it is better if the game just cease to exist, rather than carry on in its current form. People are coming out and saying that if they can't have Payday 2 be precisely as THEY want it, then nobody at all should get Payday 2. You can see the conflict I have here. I want to keep playing the game that they are trying to destroy. No, Overkill has not destroyed the game - if that happens now, that "honour" will be on the community.

Likewise I take issue with people who, when potential new players come in to inquire after the game, practically run at them, screaming, "SAVE YOURSELVES! RUN AWAY!". Every multiplayer game depends on a reliable influx of fresh blood to replace people leaving the game - for whatever reason. Otherwise it stagnates.

Look guys, I can understand where you're coming from, I really do. By all means, strive to enact changes you'd like to see, try to steer the game to where you want it to go. In doing that, though, PLEASE try not to do it at the expense and to the detriment of those who still find joy in massacring a few hundred law enforcers and making off with a few hundred kilos' worth of ill-gotten gains.

Live and let live, yeah?

Oh, who am I kidding...

[aardvark]

I find it really hard to believe anyone could be here since day 1 and not see how this all unfolded to where we are now.

Community only has themselves to blame for being ignored and still continue doing the exact same thing as before despite Overkill putting in great effort to change.

[Lammah]

I am with Pyro Fennec, I am a vet since payday 1 and disagree with some aspects of how overkill handled some things.

But I still love the game and will continue to play it.
Will I think twice before buying a DLC or future Overkill product? Hell yeah.
But I will not let other people dictate me what I shall do with my gaming time. I feel a fair amount of people on these forums don't play the game anymore but keep spewing hatred and unproductive posts.

[NaIM]

mistabob の投稿を引用：

I find it really hard to believe anyone could be here since day 1 and not see how this all unfolded to where we are now.

Community only has themselves to blame for being ignored and still continue doing the exact same thing as before despite Overkill putting in great effort to change.

Are microtransactions being removed? Or at least stat boosts? No, Overkill has added even more boosts to them, that's what you call change? Or you mean dodgy AMA and "we should've been more open" chat with mods?

[aardvark]

NaIM の投稿を引用：

Are microtransactions being removed? Or at least stat boosts? No, Overkill has added even more boosts to them, that's what you call change? Or you mean dodgy AMA and "we should've been more open" chat with mods?

You've managed to completely ignore anything I've said.

Also weapon skins are not going anywhere as they have stated themselves and honestly who cares. This has no effect on your experience of the game even if you do not like the feature.

[BitsOfSkin]

@NaIM : Don't feed the Gremlin.

[NaIM]

mistabob の投稿を引用：

You've managed to completely ignore anything I've said.

Except the last sentence. Where is their effort to change? Change after mods that they left to deal with that huge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ decided to abandon their jobs? After they got a lot of flak from the community and negative PR from the press? I wonder why.

mistabob の投稿を引用：

This has no effect on your experience of the game even if you do not like the feature.

Even if there is no stat boosts, they affect me, because I can see them on my weapon unlike my mask.

[aardvark]

NaIM の投稿を引用：

Except the last sentence. Where is their effort to change? Change after mods that they left to deal with that huge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ decided to abandon their jobs? After they got a lot of flak from the community and negative PR from the press? I wonder why.

They are changing by opening up more to the community and communicating to make sure futurue additions are in-line with what is wanted.
Seriously, read my posts I've explained everything.

NaIM の投稿を引用：

Even if there is no stat boosts, they affect me, because I can see them on my weapon unlike my mask.

Are you seriously implying that you are being forced to use the weapon skins? I really hope I don't need to explain the absurdity there....

[Archwraith]

The Mystic Mungis の投稿を引用：

Archwraith の投稿を引用：

Wisdom

I agree. Ive had users post my profile to their steam information box calling me the king of fat nerds, ive had users tell me im stupid for buying skins. Some people in the forums tell me im alone in my stance, and others just right out told me i stroke almir as others tell me im the problem. Its beyond sad. People making skin kicking mods, people starting shaming movements, and others simply leaving the game without making an opinion of their own, becasue its the cool thing to do right now. I remember when the gamer was greatful for a title, and played for fun with freinds.

Thus is the very reason I keep myself secluded, only played with friends when they're online or when they ask me to. Putting my profile so that only friend can comment on them. People calling other "knight" when they stand on their own, and when they do that, they get bashed real-hard.

Constructive criticism / helpful thread seems to be rising again since the interview, where when rookies ask, some actually provide answer, not changing it into another salty discussion. Most of the thread on crimefest are really salty, to the point that everyone becoming so cancerous they told f2p are supporting overkill and they deserve to be shamed from the community.

What's wrong with playing some heist, having fun with friend and other, while wearing some skin anyway? Is it some kind of sin to do so? Is there some kind of tenant where we must follow the majority when they hates skin and we stand on neutral?

[JJ, Professional Fool]

I believe gaming is a luxory. We are what we pay for. This title has always favored the wallet. I mean, 26 dlc packs and compelations, humble bundles and alienware junk. It is a M rated game about shooting cops and stealing things. It is aimed for people with an income. Aka, adults who can afford the luxury of the game. But that is the catch 22. All of the content is optional. You dont NEED all the dlc to enjoy it, you dont NEED any of the skins, as one can still clear maps with a 3 friend set-up. Sure OVK lied a few times, but humans lie. Everyone lies. People cant see past that expectancy that just becasue it is there, they are entitled to the content. No game in the history of man gives away things for having people simply grace the peer to peer serverbase. Community content is the thank you for playing, free stuff that everyone complained about. You cant win.

[ambosen]

Archwraith の投稿を引用：

Constructive criticism / helpful thread seems to be rising again since the interview, where when rookies ask, some actually provide answer, not changing it into another salty discussion. Most of the thread on crimefest are really salty, to the point that everyone becoming so cancerous they told f2p are supporting overkill and they deserve to be shamed from the community.

What's wrong with playing some heist, having fun with friend and other, while wearing some skin anyway? Is it some kind of sin to do so? Is there some kind of tenant where we must follow the majority when they hates skin and we stand on neutral?

What makes you think the majority even of the people who disagreed with microtransactions would be willing to go tto such lengths to alienate supporters of their own cause?

Hell, I'm gonnna take it one step further: As near as I can tell, people who are as you say "neutral" (I personally prefer to describe them as sane) *are* the majority. Plenty of people on both sides who are continuing to play the game in spite of their positions on the changes, and more then a few who likely couldn't give a damn aboutt the percieved controversy to begin with.

And more then a few with the common sense not to run off half their friends list justt because they might disagree about one thing to begin with. I mean, we're talking about people playing games for pete's sake. Not everyone's suffering from a complete loss of ability to recognize the existence of opinions aside from their own possibly having valid points tto make, or even not really mattering all that much in the grand scheme of things.

The reason why they call a silent majority a silent majority, is simple; you almost always only hear from the extremists.

Noone's interested in hearing from someone who knows howw little the issue really matters tto begin with.

[NaIM]

mistabob の投稿を引用：

They are changing by opening up more to the community and communicating to make sure futurue additions are in-line with what is wanted.

Guess time will tell, but I'm extremely skeptical on that because of their bad track record. And I am not convinced on that whole "don't voice your opinion, it won't work" thing. It worked with Square Enix and WB, why not here?

mistabob の投稿を引用：

Are you seriously implying that you are being forced to use the weapon skins? I really hope I don't need to explain the absurdity there....

Ugh, more like I don't like any content being locked behind ridiculous paywalls no matter if it's cosmetic or not. Like those stupid E3 masks. I understand that some people will only care if some weapon is inaccessible that way, but for me lottery skins already crossed the line.

[Archwraith]

ambosen の投稿を引用：

What makes you think the majority even of the people who disagreed with microtransactions would be willing to go tto such lengths to alienate supporters of their own cause?

Hell, I'm gonnna take it one step further: As near as I can tell, people who are as you say "neutral" (I personally prefer to describe them as sane) *are* the majority. Plenty of people on both sides who are continuing to play the game in spite of their positions on the changes, and more then a few who likely couldn't give a damn aboutt the percieved controversy to begin with.

And more then a few with the common sense not to run off half their friends list justt because they might disagree about one thing to begin with. I mean, we're talking about people playing games for pete's sake. Not everyone's suffering from a complete loss of ability to recognize the existence of opinions aside from their own possibly having valid points tto make, or even not really mattering all that much in the grand scheme of things.

The reason why they call a silent majority a silent majority, is simple; you almost always only hear from the extremists.

Noone's interested in hearing from someone who knows howw little the issue really matters tto begin with.

I think I need to edit my word there. The one I call as majority is the one that's been actively attacking other on the forum and spreading hate in the game. I need to rework my meaning of majority there since I realize with your word there. Sorry for the confusion. What's the word to call those with "complete loss of ability to recognize the existence of opinions aside from their own possibly having valid points tto make, or even not really mattering all that much in the grand scheme of things"? Need words to describe them

I just hope those "neutral" can be quite active in the forum as well. I don't think we need more hate right now and so, we kinda need the one that actually help people when they ask.

[Boy]

The Mystic Mungis の投稿を引用：

All of the content is optional. You dont NEED all the dlc to enjoy it, you dont NEED any of the skins, as one can still clear maps with a 3 friend set-up.

Hell, you can clear maps alone on Normal, it's just that some think the maximum difficulty is the only way to play the game.

I understand that mindset, I'm a little OCD myself and for me the best thing Overkill did was allow me to move weapons because I'd sell everything and then rebuy it just to keep stuff in order when they released a new gun. I get that it's optional, it's totally unnecessary but unfortunately the brain chemistry of some people is such that they need everything to line up.

This also applies to builds and weapons. I get the hate, I really do, because for this type it is almost physically painful not to be totally optimised, not to be the very tip of the spear. If a skin makes the weapon complete then the only thing they can do is get that skin and if you ask if it has to be mint then you really don't understand the compulsion. When Infamy came in we saw the same reaction, there were people who were incredibly unhappy that they would have to grind another 400 levels before their build could be considered complete. Now imagine that going Infamous cost $2.49.

Yes, it's all optional but for some people optional is mandatory.

[JJ, Professional Fool]

Zander273 の投稿を引用：

Don't be upset with us lol we aren't the ones running the game into the ground. Warning people about how awful this game is is a favor to them, if you're denying that because you want new blood to keep development on this game going in the small, small chance that it might be saved in the future? That's unbelievably more selfish than warning someone not to buy a crappy product.

It is a good thing the opinions of a few dictate every and all players.

[JJ, Professional Fool]

Zander273 の投稿を引用：

The Mystic Mungis の投稿を引用：

It is a good thing the opinions of a few dictate every and all players.

A few, thousands, whats the difference right?

Try harder white knight.

This thread was civil, people using facts and driven opinions. Then players like you come along. You wave a general flag from infromation spoonfed to you, most likely with a few hours under belt standing for a cause you know nothing about. You use petty internet shame tactics like "white knight" behind a private profile, spewing nonsesne. The game isnt dying, skins arent ruining the game. Players like you are. If you even read the posts made in this thread, you might learn something more. Clearly any opinion outside the ones you were told are whiteknighting, or trivial.