basic/aced body expertise breakpoints for DS?

[Ɛ: ʎɥɔʇɐԀ]

like, how much damage my weapon should have to 1-2 tap heavies/lights?

[JIMTOMAV]

Health for lights and hevies is 480 and 960 respectively.
Base HS multiplier at DS is 3x.
So 90% would be 2.7x
480/2.7=177.8
960/2.7=355.6

Though personally I would ditch BE so you can take advantage of the extra 1.25x from your perk deck when getting headshots.
1.25x3=3.75
480/3.75=128
960/3.75=256

Heavies have double the health of lights so if you want to 1 shot the lights and 2 shot the heavies you will need 177.8 dmg with BE ACE or 128 with headshots.

[CA$H THE GREAT]

Originally posted by JIMTOMAV:

Though personally I would ditch BE so you can take advantage of the extra 1.25x from your perk deck when getting headshots.

Body Expertise only comes into play when targets are hit on the body (non-headshot). This skill works independently of the Helmet Popping card in perk decks (which requires headshots).

Why would you suggest he needs to drop Body Expertise to take advantage of Helmet Popping when they work independently and under separate conditions?

Or were you simply stating he should save the points and spend them elsewhere?

If he has a low accuracy and/or high rate of fire (ARs, SMG, LMG, or Special weapon) he should be taking Aced Body Expertise. If he's sniping and/or has a highly accurate weapon, he should skip it.

Body Expertise came about to make full auto ARs, SMGs, LMGs, and other high rate of fire weapons competitive and viable with respect to the damage output of other weapon families since they would be much less likely to score headshots in the heat of combat. Originally it gave equal (100%) damage to headshots but it was nerfed down to 90% in subsequent patches.

[JIMTOMAV]

Originally posted by CA$H THE GREAT:

Originally posted by JIMTOMAV:

Though personally I would ditch BE so you can take advantage of the extra 1.25x from your perk deck when getting headshots.

Body Expertise only comes into play when targets are hit on the body (non-headshot). This skill works independently of the Helmet Popping card in perk decks (which requires headshots).

Why would you suggest he needs to drop Body Expertise to take advantage of Helmet Popping when they work independently and under separate conditions?

Or were you simply stating he should save the points and spend them elsewhere?

If he has a low accuracy and/or high rate of fire (ARs, SMG, LMG, or Special weapon) he should be taking Aced Body Expertise. If he's sniping and/or has a highly accurate weapon, he should skip it.

Body Expertise came about to make full auto ARs, SMGs, LMGs, and other high rate of fire weapons competitive and viable with respect to the damage output of other weapon families since they would be much less likely to score headshots in the heat of combat. Originally it gave equal (100%) damage to headshots but it was nerfed down to 90% in subsequent patches.

It was the 2nd one.
I was advising he save the skill points and focus on getting headshots as they also deal more damage than BE.
Even with LMGs and SMGs, you can get consistent headshots if you put some of those points towards accuracy and stability instead.
Enemies only have 2 head height positions (standing/crouched) and a fairly generous hitbox so its very viable.

[Ɛ: ʎɥɔʇɐԀ]

Originally posted by JIMTOMAV:

Originally posted by CA$H THE GREAT:

Body Expertise only comes into play when targets are hit on the body (non-headshot). This skill works independently of the Helmet Popping card in perk decks (which requires headshots).

Why would you suggest he needs to drop Body Expertise to take advantage of Helmet Popping when they work independently and under separate conditions?

Or were you simply stating he should save the points and spend them elsewhere?

If he has a low accuracy and/or high rate of fire (ARs, SMG, LMG, or Special weapon) he should be taking Aced Body Expertise. If he's sniping and/or has a highly accurate weapon, he should skip it.

Body Expertise came about to make full auto ARs, SMGs, LMGs, and other high rate of fire weapons competitive and viable with respect to the damage output of other weapon families since they would be much less likely to score headshots in the heat of combat. Originally it gave equal (100%) damage to headshots but it was nerfed down to 90% in subsequent patches.

It was the 2nd one.
I was advising he save the skill points and focus on getting headshots as they also deal more damage than BE.
Even with LMGs and SMGs, you can get consistent headshots if you put some of those points towards accuracy and stability instead.
Enemies only have 2 head height positions (standing/crouched) and a fairly generous hitbox so its very viable.

I mostly use BE simply because this skill is just like drugs: after you use it once, you cannot stop using it
Plus, this skill makes me use less brain cells while playing payday 2 :3

[_galaxy]

Originally posted by JIMTOMAV:

Health for lights and hevies is 480 and 960 respectively.
Base HS multiplier at DS is 3x.
So 90% would be 2.7x
480/2.7=177.8
960/2.7=355.6

Though personally I would ditch BE so you can take advantage of the extra 1.25x from your perk deck when getting headshots.
1.25x3=3.75
480/3.75=128
960/3.75=256

Heavies have double the health of lights so if you want to 1 shot the lights and 2 shot the heavies you will need 177.8 dmg with BE ACE or 128 with headshots.

Every build I see using assault rifles or akimbo SMG's uses body expertise. Is it better to go without?

Also, what about dozers? Don't I get to do headshot damage on the dozer before breaking their faceplate? Do you have comparison video of someone killing a dozer with body expertise vs without (both while aiming at the head)?

[Ɛ: ʎɥɔʇɐԀ]

Originally posted by _galaxy:

Originally posted by JIMTOMAV:

Health for lights and hevies is 480 and 960 respectively.
Base HS multiplier at DS is 3x.
So 90% would be 2.7x
480/2.7=177.8
960/2.7=355.6

Though personally I would ditch BE so you can take advantage of the extra 1.25x from your perk deck when getting headshots.
1.25x3=3.75
480/3.75=128
960/3.75=256

Heavies have double the health of lights so if you want to 1 shot the lights and 2 shot the heavies you will need 177.8 dmg with BE ACE or 128 with headshots.

Every build I see using assault rifles or akimbo SMG's uses body expertise. Is it better to go without?

Also, what about dozers? Don't I get to do headshot damage on the dozer before breaking their faceplate? Do you have comparison video of someone killing a dozer with body expertise vs without (both while aiming at the head)?

i'm sure body expertise no longer applies to dozers, as it has been nerfed somewhere between update 100-200

[CA$H THE GREAT]

Originally posted by _galaxy:

Every build I see using assault rifles or akimbo SMG's uses body expertise. Is it better to go without?

If you are running a FULL-AUTO build, it is a no-brainer to go into what I call...

"The Holy Trinity of Machine-Gunning"

• Body Expertise Aced
  
• Lock 'n Load Aced
  
• Surefire Aced

And while you are at it, definitely get Shock 'n Awe Aced (Tank > Enforcer tree).

Those skills together should be the foundation of any effective full-auto combat build. If you want to pile on additional skills for damage or utility beyond that, that balance is up to you.

Originally posted by _galaxy:

Also, what about dozers? Don't I get to do headshot damage on the dozer before breaking their faceplate? Do you have comparison video of someone killing a dozer with body expertise vs without (both while aiming at the head)?

There are two faceplates, an inner and outer, each with approx 150 HP if I remember rightly. They cannot be broken at the same time, only with consecutive hits which is why dozers take at least 3 shots to down.

The exception being a handful of extremely high-damage weapons like the .50 cal Thanatos sniper rifle, rockets, or being able to land extremely high crits with crit multipliers alone (which I love to do with the Amaroq 900 or Desert Fox + Shotgunner Aced Overkill skill).

Until you break BOTH faceplates are broken, only crit multipliers are active (if you have Low Blow or Unseen Strike in your build).

Once BOTH faceplates are broken and the dozer's face is exposed, the headshot multiplier is active as well.

So for example, lets say the crit multiplier is 5x and the headshot multiplier is 7x.
You can land back to back crits at 5x damage and then once you shatter the faceplates, now you are doing 35x damage on headshot crits because the multipliers are multiplied together.

[ProtoShel]

Originally posted by _galaxy:

Every build I see using assault rifles or akimbo SMG's uses body expertise. Is it better to go without?

I mean you don't *neeed* it, but it's a whole hell of a lot easier to use those kinds of weapons (especially LMGs) when you can just aim wherever and things still die pretty quick.

[P1nkLem0n4d3]

It's definitely one of those "If you have it great, if not no big deal" types of skills in the game. To get a really big benefit, it's only either really high damage weapons(Ehh...? not the best idea to try to reach those breakpoints and have body expertise, plus you'll reach another breakpoint anyways with those weapons already, so it might be completely useless), or you use it more for the sake of accuracy for weapons that don't have a lot of accuracy, damage, or some other reason.