Overkill, what is the definition between cheat and mod?

[Max]

The Last Bullet need a solid, clear statement about that. "Gameplay Changing Mod" in Last Bullet already being abused as a cover of actual cheats that gives legit players unfiar experience such as carrying 2 primary or secondary weapons at the same time and spawning enemy to farm kill achievement "legitly". Not to mention those skill, perk, weapon "rebalance" or "overhaul" mods are giving player even more unfair advantage than the hoxhud drill timer.

Overkill, you said transparency. Now can we get an actual definition about mod and cheat before they gone too far? Not just "as long as it help the team". Thank you.

And to Last Bullet members, I'm just asking question. Ashley already stated LB is already a part of official Payday 2 community. I don't think Overkill and myself want to see something like that[i.imgur.com] when you're discussing about my act in your lovely hugbox.

[Heroic Sheperd]

引用自 Weedian：

unlocking anything you dont have through regular way (achievement, dlc...) is a cheat. altering weapon statistics with mods is cheat. altering any gameplay experience like moving faster, godmode, etc, via mods, is cheating.

extra info in hud is not cheating. if you say hoxhud is cheat because of that, then every other hud mod is cheat too, because all of them display some extra info, like number of kills, when some boost is active, all different counters, etc... hud that is simply hud is not cheat, extra info is not cheat.

im sure i missed lots of examples, but this is just to see what kind of things are allowed and what not.

The cheating portions of Hoxhud are knowing the exact phase of the assault, and knowing the exact count of the enemies. This type of extra info is indeed a cheat to someone that knows how to best exploit that information.

Would you say a mod highlighting all enemies on a map permanently is a cheat? It's only "extra info" after all. But it's info that is easily exploitable. Knowing how many cops on a map is also exploitable to a skilled player. That's one of the biggest complaints about HoxHud, not stamina timers and interaction timers.

[Max]

引用自 Cephie, Melee Enthusiast：

引用自 Max：

Already answered. Probably "Refund Skills" or other mod he made

That user was not banned for that mod or any other he authored. He fell into that (in your own words) death trap.

That's cool. Hope I can see him again. (He do really sounds like he get banned for that)

*finding a gun to shoot myself*

引用自 ACPL Jon：

引用自 Max：

Well, funny thing is some LB members get banned on forum due to "cheating" by using a gameplay changing mod from LB. (and that mod isn't removed, yet)

Haven't read all of the answers yet, but I'll respond to that.

Weren't You, dear parrot, kind of mean to some \ about some particular people, because of that "cut down whole tree because of few rotten apples" thing? NOW ISN'T THAT FAMILIAR?

Yeah I create this post to totally destroy the modding community muhahahaha

Not really. What I want is a guideline of making mods. To protect those who wanted to play legitimately. You sounds like the game is totally unplayable without mod and you suspect everyone is using it.
How about you learn how to count to 3 and hold down the button? Or give some effort to grind an item from JS as intended?

The mod need a rebalance too. It is already gone too far and make vanilla players look like an idiot because mod users could just get whatever stat boosts they want and vanilla players need to do the monthly jobs to get a random one.

It needs to be balanced. You guys juat making the game mod 2 win.

[Draza]

At the end of the day, the host is the one who makes the rules of their lobby. If they see anything that they don't like, kick.
So there isn't really a point in discussing this.

[PrivateKI]

引用自 Draza：

At the end of the day, the host is the one who makes the rules of their lobby. If they see anything that they don't like, kick.
So there isn't really a point in discussing this.

Pretty much this.

Why OP wants Overkill to decide for him on how to make a mod "properly" is beyond me.

[Max]

引用自 Draza：

At the end of the day, the host is the one who makes the rules of their lobby. If they see anything that they don't like, kick.
So there isn't really a point in discussing this.

It is no longer something like drill timer and chat spam that you can end with a kick. This is something you need to know.

[Draza]

引用自 Max：

引用自 Draza：

At the end of the day, the host is the one who makes the rules of their lobby. If they see anything that they don't like, kick.
So there isn't really a point in discussing this.

It is no longer something like drill timer and chat spam that you can end with a kick. This is something you need to know.

Hosts will do what they want. It doesn't matter if the rules are clear, it wont change anything.

[Max]

引用自 Draza：

引用自 Max：

It is no longer something like drill timer and chat spam that you can end with a kick. This is something you need to know.

Hosts will do what they want. It doesn't matter if the rules are clear, it wont change anything.

I don't think the host can deal with mod like mark people as cheater for whatever reasons

[Prodigy]

Max is just pissed because someone got banned and is now making trouble by asking "what is a cheat exactly" when he already knows why people get banned from the forums, and that there are no people banned from the game period.

[[ACPL] Jon]

引用自 Max：

How about you learn how to count to 3 and hold down the button?

How about You piss off with random insults that obviously doesn't have any particular reason to be there?

I can bet I use single shot way more than You. And I wanna see You on a real shooting range being as accurate during auto fire as during single shot fire AND get less recoil at that.

Because that's how it works in-game now.

引用自 Max：

Or give some effort to grind an item from JS as intended?

How dare You suggest I didn't? I did, for far too many hours. I grinded this game so hard I don't plan to anymore in any nearest future.

引用自 Max：

It needs to be balanced. You guys juat making the game mod 2 win.

...or mod 2 get rekt by running dozers? by extra cops? This is false and why would that even bother You to that extent?

If You ban the "mods that make the game too easy" people who want to cheat will just turn to trainers. And with those, they can ♥♥♥♥ up Your lobby WAY more.

Mods are meant to alter things, fix things or even extend or provide new things. If it weren't for mods, there would be no extra countermeasures against cheaters, not even a chance for custom \customized heists or gamemodes, we would be stuck with broken tech tree, perk decks, guns and everything else that Overkill ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up or that simply becomes boring after 500 hours. And some have played PD2 for WAY more than those 500 hours, dude.

Everything OVK did wrong would be written in stone and only actual cheaters could fight it.

How is that good, huh? How is that helping Your cause?

[Max]

That's not really talking about an individual... I mean the JS part. There is also some pay to lose DLC (eg: bombstick). But they don't change the fact that the game is p2w. Same can apply mod to win.
I let you win anyway, ok?

Now Overkill, answer please

[stuntrock]

I've expressed this concern before but mainly regarding LBG's QC (or lack thereof). I've brought a few mods to the attention of higher-ups that I thought were a bit 'cheaty' and there's always a 'we'll look into it' mentality but that gameplay-altering section skirts a line all the time as many have previously indicated.

I just think a bit more oversight on that section would do them some justice, primarily, in my opinion, to protect LBG's stance as being a website that prides itself on not hosting cheats. Of course people can alter mods or go to other websites that foster them, but I think if they respect that motto then they should be watching it more closely.

If it hasn't been mandated yet I think most would agree that all gameplay changing mods should announce themselves whenever possible, but of course people would argue against this for a variety of reasons, I imagine.

[Heroic Sheperd]

引用自 Max：

That's not really talking about an individual... I mean the JS part. There is also some pay to lose DLC (eg: bombstick). But they don't change the fact that the game is p2w. Same can apply mod to win.
I let you win anyway, ok?

Now Overkill, answer please

Why does Overkill even need to address this? Its not an issue, do what you want in your game.

If anything only the Forum Mods need to address what they consider cheating and what they don't for the purpose of forum mods. And to my understanding they only use clear proof such as same timestamps for all achievements via SAM, or things like that.

[Max]

引用自 « TGH » Carlton Banks AP：

引用自 Max：

That's not really talking about an individual... I mean the JS part. There is also some pay to lose DLC (eg: bombstick). But they don't change the fact that the game is p2w. Same can apply mod to win.
I let you win anyway, ok?

Now Overkill, answer please

Why does Overkill even need to address this? Its not an issue, do what you want in your game.

If anything only the Forum Mods need to address what they consider cheating and what they don't for the purpose of forum mods. And to my understanding they only use clear proof such as same timestamps for all achievements via SAM, or things like that.

Why ban chesters if "do what you want in your game" is a valid point? Moderator said they enforce a "strict" policy to cheating. "do what you want in your game" is no longer an excuse to defend cheaty mods.

Those SAM users unlock all achievements doesn't affect our gameplay. Why still banning them if your point stands?

[Prodigy]

引用自 Max：

引用自 « TGH » Carlton Banks AP：

Why does Overkill even need to address this? Its not an issue, do what you want in your game.

If anything only the Forum Mods need to address what they consider cheating and what they don't for the purpose of forum mods. And to my understanding they only use clear proof such as same timestamps for all achievements via SAM, or things like that.

Why ban chesters if "do what you want in your game" is a valid point? Moderator said they enforce a "strict" policy to cheating. "do what you want in your game" is no longer an excuse to defend cheaty mods.

Those SAM users unlock all achievements doesn't affect our gameplay. Why still banning them if your point stands?

This was explained. Im not finding it again. use search.

[Max]

引用自 =TB= PRoDigY：

引用自 Max：

Why ban chesters if "do what you want in your game" is a valid point? Moderator said they enforce a "strict" policy to cheating. "do what you want in your game" is no longer an excuse to defend cheaty mods.

Those SAM users unlock all achievements doesn't affect our gameplay. Why still banning them if your point stands?

This was explained. Im not finding it again. use search.

Same applys to mod. Cheating is cheating. Regardless the method or the name of the cheat/mod

If you're talking about "screenshots aren't proof". This is just an excuse due to our mod lack of computer knowledge.