Why most missions are useless, and most only play 3

[vectorViridian]

It's no big surprise that the majority of the missions in this game are downright useless for money or experience. As a result, most people simply run the big 3, Rats, Firestarter, and Watchdogs, ad nauseam. This leads me to believe that it's basically useless to have any 1 day heists, no matter how big, (Big Bank), as they simply aren't worth the time/effort to complete, and you should just run the big 3. Overkill, why do we have maps like Framing Frames, Big Bank, and Go Bank? They're not even worth the effort it takes to run them, which is a tremendous effort for the most part. Framing could be adapted to the new stealth and made more like Shadow Raid, but they didn't bother. Instead, it's simply not worth running. We need more missions that are actually worth the effort, and pay more, or give more experience, do they not see this?

[Rook]

Автор сообщения: Harleking

Автор сообщения: American Elgre

The only missions even worth doing (thanks to the horrendous xp scale) is framing frames and rats.

They can add as many maps as they want, they will be novelty maps. Play once to play, then return to rushing for max XP. It won't help the fundamental issue that they can't seem to solve.
lt
The problem is the XP scale. level 1 to 60 is the same xp from 90 to 100 (or something like that). Level 99 to 100 is 1,000,000 XP.

Compare that to a game like Borderlands 2. You can't really power level or grind in that game. There is no mission that gives you a super crazy XP boost that levels you from level 1 to 40. That's becasue the XP is pretty consistent.

In borderlands, you don't seek out and only play the highest yielding XP quests, you just play. That's the beauty of a more consistent XP ramp.

Well, in Borderlands a friend can join with level 1 while you play ultimate Vault Hunter mode. For example i like to do the headhunter pack on the island and my friend levels up pretty fast.

Or have him join a game where you've got a bee + infinity pistol killing the Marcus slag dude constantly over night. Every game people will find ways to cheat the system like that (it's sort of what we do, being efficient and beating the system XD ). The earlier guy's point tho was that it is generally better about level ups because of the quite different system it uses

[nopr]

what do you mean with new stealth is shadow raid?

[Flustig]

3 day contract with random heists that works and has same xp and money calculation same as normal 3 day jobs would solve all the problems

[vectorViridian]

Автор сообщения: UglyPotato

what do you mean with new stealth is shadow raid?

I mean that Shadow Raid isn't the terrible RNG-fest that Frames day 3 is. Quite the opposite for the most part. It's huge, not a closet like Frames, allowing for many different avenues of attack, there are a lot of guards, but the map is so big you can easily avoid them with skill. The new stealth is about avoiding guards/civs completely and killing no one, Frames day 3 makes this nearly impossible in many cases (not all cases). Shadow Raid rewards skill more than Frames or the old stealth missions, and thus myself and my crew can easily clear it on Overkill/DW consistently.

I'm intrigued by the 1 day heist we'll get for the PD2 group reward, Framing day 1, and I wouldn't mind more heists like that. The more heists we have, the better, but personally I'd like a few more multi-day, high-payout ones.

People keep bringing up the idea of 'you don't have to play just the big 3'. Right, as I've said before, I don't just play those, I play everything, but the rewards don't add up. Things like Nightclub are simply played to play something different, not for the money or exp.

[Johann Springle]

Автор сообщения: Rook- trying out F2P Firefall

Автор сообщения: Harleking

Well, in Borderlands a friend can join with level 1 while you play ultimate Vault Hunter mode. For example i like to do the headhunter pack on the island and my friend levels up pretty fast.

Or have him join a game where you've got a bee + infinity pistol killing the Marcus slag dude constantly over night. Every game people will find ways to cheat the system like that (it's sort of what we do, being efficient and beating the system XD ). The earlier guy's point tho was that it is generally better about level ups because of the quite different system it uses

Exactly. I never really did "grinding" in that game, even in the the levels up to OP. Simply playing the game, for the most part, let you get the XP you needed. It still took the same amount of time to level up if you did mission X or mission Y. It's not built around that grind.

Payday, however, is built around that grind. Which, in effect, makes any decision on heist only about XP. It's extremely flat. That's why no matter what map they put out, if it doesn't have the XP/time rate of rats or any of the other 3 day heists, it's ultimately a pointless map.

[Retrah]

Автор сообщения: American Elgre

The only missions even worth doing (thanks to the horrendous xp scale) is framing frames and rats.

Bro, what about Firestarter, it gives just as much EXP as Rats.

[Rook]

Автор сообщения: American Elgre

Автор сообщения: Rook- trying out F2P Firefall

Or have him join a game where you've got a bee + infinity pistol killing the Marcus slag dude constantly over night. Every game people will find ways to cheat the system like that (it's sort of what we do, being efficient and beating the system XD ). The earlier guy's point tho was that it is generally better about level ups because of the quite different system it uses

Exactly. I never really did "grinding" in that game, even in the the levels up to OP. Simply playing the game, for the most part, let you get the XP you needed. It still took the same amount of time to level up if you did mission X or mission Y. It's not built around that grind.

Payday, however, is built around that grind. Which, in effect, makes any decision on heist only about XP. It's extremely flat. That's why no matter what map they put out, if it doesn't have the XP/time rate of rats or any of the other 3 day heists, it's ultimately a pointless map.

But this game doesn't have the story progression frame to hang everything off of (even that has issues, if you do multiplayer then how bored are you of doing the firehawk section for instance early on, whereas how often have you done the info stockade and do you even remember all the mid-late game story quests?) and to include that would change the game completely really.
That's where I think something like that 7 (or 3 or 5) day shuffle idea would be great - getting you to play a random selection of heists (including rarely played ones like GO Bank and transports) for a big payout boost on the later days (Big Bank with worthwhile bags????? that'd be a nice shock) or an xp prize for completing it / based on how far people get
(besides a deathwish 7 day shuffle would challenge players who farm dw rats and fs because they're used to the difficulty and that's a huge step up/down between dw and overkill)

[Rook]

Автор сообщения: TheOneRetroGamer

Автор сообщения: American Elgre

The only missions even worth doing (thanks to the horrendous xp scale) is framing frames and rats.

Bro, what about Firestarter, it gives just as much EXP as Rats.

FS is pretty much the easiest set of heists for the best cash payout, especially once you have a good stealth player in the lobby (d2 and d3 are snoozefests, d1 you can just rush it, even dw d1 isn't hard when you know what to do)

[Retrah]

Автор сообщения: Rook- trying out F2P Firefall

Автор сообщения: TheOneRetroGamer

Bro, what about Firestarter, it gives just as much EXP as Rats.

FS is pretty much the easiest set of heists for the best cash payout, especially once you have a good stealth player in the lobby (d2 and d3 are snoozefests, d1 you can just rush it, even dw d1 isn't hard when you know what to do)

Yeah, I know. I do it Proverkill daily and REG - DW now and then.

[KebabScout]

Really? I start feeling somewhat lonely and different, when i play game(s) for fun, not to be quickly maxed and then quit the game. If i'd want that, i'd play Runescape or some crap like that. Many people laugh at my 260hrs and lvl 91, but they forget the whole original point of gaming: Having good time, not to compete.

Examples of missions that are fun to do in my opinion:

Election day - 2 day heist with 40% potential stealth xp bonus and 7 bags of gold as bonus if stealthed.
Shadow Raid - Stealth mission with potential 1m+ payout on DW solo
Mallcrasher - Fun. Go and destroy every thing. Pretty much a Payday 2 No russian, but russians changed to windows. Also a real challenge, if you want, is to stealth this one.
Jewelry store - ECM - Smash 3 cases - done - repeat. Fun to do with friends and see everyone miss 2 mask cards.
Diamond store - Why the hell not? Nice stealth bonus and still easy.
Four stores - ECM the ATM and AFK for few minutes. Good filler between other missions.

[Fire2box]

Автор сообщения: American Elgre

In borderlands, you don't seek out and only play the highest yielding XP quests, you just play. That's the beauty of a more consistent XP ramp.

I do. It's great to be overlevled by 1-3 for the story missions.

[Ashe]

Relative to OP.

Playing for fun is fun. It's true. But scorning people because they want a sense of progression that isn't at a snails pace shouldn't be such a go to thing.
As fun as it is, the rewards are there and the game doesn't have enough lastability, as it is, to make the levelling process not feel like a grind. There's too little heists with worthwhile xp and too much xp to actually get. I think I saw the curve for xp to level and by level 50 you've barely passed the 1 million mark of 23 million needed to get to level 100. I don't know why this is, maybe it's to allow early players easy access to 60 skill points.

Speaking freely, the curve seems almost like freemium games in style, in that it starts off very leisurely and you'll net a bunch of early game rewards but the curve becomes increasingly steep quickly and eventually requires as much effort to make just 2 levels as it took to make those first 50.

The fact that infamy tries to entice players to do it all over again rubs in the fact that levelling is heavily emphasised and the presumably 'natural' path of the game; along with the fact that there's another 9 more levels to come and, therefore, 900 more levels. There is no doubt in my mind that, to justify 450 more levels of immense ease accompanied by 450 of tedious crawls they're gonna have to rework the xp system a 'little' more than it is now.

[ALEX IV]

Автор сообщения: Cash.net Schwoops

Relative to OP.

Playing for fun is fun. It's true. But scorning people because they want a sense of progression that isn't at a snails pace shouldn't be such a go to thing.
As fun as it is, the rewards are there and the game doesn't have enough lastability, as it is, to make the levelling process not feel like a grind. There's too little heists with worthwhile xp and too much xp to actually get. I think I saw the curve for xp to level and by level 50 you've barely passed the 1 million mark of 23 million needed to get to level 100. I don't know why this is, maybe it's to allow early players easy access to 60 skill points.

Speaking freely, the curve seems almost like freemium games in style, in that it starts off very leisurely and you'll net a bunch of early game rewards but the curve becomes increasingly steep quickly and eventually requires as much effort to make just 2 levels as it took to make those first 50.

The fact that infamy tries to entice players to do it all over again rubs in the fact that levelling is heavily emphasised and the presumably 'natural' path of the game; along with the fact that there's another 9 more levels to come and, therefore, 900 more levels. There is no doubt in my mind that, to justify 450 more levels of immense ease accompanied by 450 of tedious crawls they're gonna have to rework the xp system a 'little' more than it is now.

I agree, similar to what I posted before.
The problem is not just playing for fun (something that I do). Is the fact that in this game, the "rewards" are, apart from finishing the heist correctly which is a great thing, is getting more money and experience, which in turn let you buy weapons and nice gadgets, and progress in your skill trees.
But if after a lot of effort I finish a difficult heist, and I see how my experience progress goes up only like 10% for the level I am, well, it gets a litte discouraging. Lower difficulty levels stop making sense too.

Not only that, but there will be supposedly 14 levels of infamy. Considering some people take more than a hundred hours to reach level 100, we would need to play 1400+ hours to get there. I don't think I have that many hours in any game I have ever played. That is not just unreasonable, it's absolutely nuts.

OK, make it a little easier for starting levels so people can get going, but don't make it progress exponentially harder. A factor of 1000+ of difference between starting and finishing levels is NOT reasonable at all.
Besides... why making it so hard?!? Is there any reason for that insanity?