Is the crit part of ZerkCrit builds really that useful?

[Cryptomancer]

It seems like every DSOD build uses the ZerkCrit mechanic and I'm wondering if the crit part of that is really so helpful. You need to give up a LOT to stay under 25 concealment to max crit with Low Blow Aced and it's about 25 skill points spent on concealment boosting skills plus the crit skills themselves. All that just for 30% crit chance.

You could instead use those skill points to max the Revenant tree to give yourself Messiah and put points in Combat Medic to improve Doctor Bags. Seems to me that those skills would be far more useful than a very inconsistent crit chance. Am I wrong here? If so, why? Thanks.

[Jostabeere]

Or you just use guns which stay below 25 which isn't hard. Also stuff like Medic Bags are already included in every DSOD build.
I don't know if it's needed anymore, someone has to scramble up the numbers.

[Cryptomancer]

This doesn't really address my point. The main thing you're spending is skill points. I use Izhima and a silenced Judge so the weapon part is fine, but it's a lot of skill points dumped in Ghost for that 30% crit is what I'm saying. If you have medic bags then you're losing Revenant or something else.

[Meredith K Pseudonym]

I'm using an IZHMA and a Judge, neither are silenced and the only points I spent on concealment and crits are the 12 I needed to get Low Blow Ace. 19 detection and even for loud guns they are a very long way from optimal concealment.

As for whether crits are useful, ask that to the Minigun Bulldozers that don't know how to just die and that the game doesn't know how to limit.


My opinion on Messiah is really, really low. The main reason for this is that I almost never get to fight back after I get downed on DSOD so it's utterly useless to me.

[Cryptomancer]

I don't even remotely understand how you're able to get 19 detection with those weapons and no concealment skills. So I'm running Anarchist with Light Ballistic Vest. My Izhima is concealment 12 and my Judge is 27 (without taking Optical Illusions). My detection is at 52. If I Ace Optical Illusions and Inner Pockets it goes down to 23.

[curiositas]

Originally posted by Cryptomancer:

I don't even remotely understand how you're able to get 19 detection with those weapons and no concealment skills. So I'm running Anarchist with Light Ballistic Vest. My Izhima is concealment 12 and my Judge is 27 (without taking Optical Illusions). My detection is at 52. If I Ace Optical Illusions and Inner Pockets it goes down to 23.

You do know there are weapon mods that increase concealment?
The Mosconi 12G for example starts out at 7 Concealment, however 2 weapons mods ramp it up to 27. Now just use a weapon that also has fairly high concealment and a high-conceal melee and you are good to go with Low Blow Basic.

If you focus on acquiring skills that lower your detection/concealment then you are already gonna have a hard time specialising on Inspire, Overkill, Fully Loaded or whatever (Tier 4) skills you are wanting to get.

[Cryptomancer]

Yeah of course I know that, but those also come at a cost. Typically costing you Stability and/or Accuracy.

[curiositas]

Originally posted by Cryptomancer:

Yeah of course I know that, but those also come at a cost. Typically costing you Stability and/or Accuracy.

Yeah of course they come at a cost, but for shotguns low accuracy can even be somewhat beneficial, while for, say, AR's it's a shot into nowhere.
If you really want high concealment for crits then you really gotta take those things at cost.

EDIT: But then again for shotguns it depends on the ammo type you use. You should be using high accuracy for HE and Slug rounds, but lower accuracy is fine for standard or 000 ammo.

[Grfchn]

I would consider some ZerkCrit Builds as reliable and very good on ODDW.
I like to use a ZerkCrit Build with the Izhma and Anarchist. Play smart and in my opinion it is a Glasscanon on ODDW and really helps you to beat ODDW.

[The Least Interesting Chibi...]

Crits are the most powerful damage buff in the game, in that they give the headshot multiplier on every crit shot, including headshots. Are they needed for every build? Not really. It's more dependent on the weapon and the difficulty. On DW/DS crits are pretty much standard on any high RPM weapon or DB-shotgun (Fire only gets buffed by Crits).

[Cryptomancer]

Fair enough. Thanks for the input everyone. Btw, how can you tell when a weapon crits? Is that when you get the orange-yellow X rather than the red on a hit?

[Jostabeere]

Also Messiah is completely useless on DS. You get hit once and you're fully down.

[Grfchn]

Yes if you see the yellow crosshair you crit.
What the game doesnt tell you that you can als crit with weapons that arent affected by low blow.
But that is a whole other story.

[Yuurai]

Oh zerkcrit. The build I really sucked at. After days of practice and experimenting how I can make it really work for my playstyle left me hating Izhma as an option. The Izhma just lacked something. Earlier today I managed to build an anarchist frenzerker crit bodyexpertise, shreds dozers in 2-3s with full hp DS. The frenzerker crit is really useful in my opinion now that I managed to make it finally work for me.

Edit: Also, just use guns with high conceal and fast reload. Use one with good ammo efficiency if possible. Have those and you wouldn't even need concealment skills.

[Cryptomancer]

Care to share that build Yaya?

[Thermal Lance]

Combining both ain't absolutely necessary... crits alone are enough. Only reason people stick to critzerker is because of the deck synergy.... but in the long run... crits alone is more than enough if you can make good use of your secondary is some situations.