How OVERKILL could stop DLC unlockers...

[Arikado_Xodan]

PAYDAY 2's anti-cheat detection systems have never REALLY been able to detect all forms of cheating. (Example: It can't catch when someone uses a command to kill eveyone on the map in stealth.) But the system has worked well with detecting DLC unlockers.

So heres a thought: Why not upon the system detecting "Invalid heist, weapon, character, etc.", the system automatically closes the game lobby?

Think about it for a second, the game will only detect Invalid game content upon attempting to use it... So it'll only happen outside of the actual game. Meaning that lobbies will never be automatically closed mid-game, and the unlockers get caught from the start.

Anytime they swap to invalid weapons, use invalid mods & characters, start invalid contracts... The system should shut the whole lobby down and take them back to the Main Menu.

Trying to go after cheaters has been a tough thing to do without damaging the modding scene in PAYDAY 2. But going after the DLC Unlockers -- in my opinion -- is far easier to do. It's one thing to alter the game through mods or hacking, its another to flat out be given items you didn't pay the money to rightfully own.

I've never understood why OVERKILL has not addressed the issue of DLC unlockers yet... Cause -- in my opinion -- they can be more damaging to the community then the hackers, their accessing content that they have no right to... Which hurts both the community and OVERKILL.

Some say that piracy doesn't equate to a lost sale -- cause we don't know if those who unlocked it would of ever bought it if they couldn't pirate it -- but I'm one to believe otherwise. And the ability to easily just unlock the content yourself doesn't make matters better for the rest of us...

[Omega Riddler]

Messaggio originale di BobbyD55:

Messaggio originale di Unwichtiger Nebencharacter 42:

Currently if NGBTO would give me a cheater tag i would continue to use it and since i got that tag anyway then i would think about an unlocker cause whats the difference between having a tag and having a tag twice and after that i would probably search for a way to remove the tag.
Since overkills system has a lot of false positives it's almost impossible for them to handle out permabans.

"Since I got that tag anyway"

Wait so you are implying you have cheated?

I have not cheated in Payday 2 but since I think cheaters are out of control, remove all mods. AT LEAST until they can find a way to add mods without cheaters ruining the game

[42 Sav]

Messaggio originale di Omega Riddler:

Messaggio originale di BobbyD55:

"Since I got that tag anyway"

Wait so you are implying you have cheated?

I have not cheated in Payday 2 but since I think cheaters are out of control, remove all mods. AT LEAST until they can find a way to add mods without cheaters ruining the game

That is simply not possible. Even if mods are completely banned, cheaters will still cheat. Banning mods hasn't worked as an anti-cheat method for ANY game. The only game I can think of off the top of my head where the devs were dumb enough to ban mods as an anti-cheat method is CoD, and that never worked in any of the CoD games. Also, as Ashley said, there is no way that Overkill are going to ban mods.

[Nervatel]

Messaggio originale di Bindal:

That can easily be solved - sync the cheater confirmation with other players.
If ANY player detects that someone else is a cheater - kick. In case of host-cheater, kick all three (with the information "the host cheated") and lock down the host lobby.

[heist_id].max_bags = 0
Boom, host lobby gets locked because the client's game detects more than 1 bag

[42 Sav]

Messaggio originale di Nervatel/ Hanging Closet Monster:

Messaggio originale di Bindal:

That can easily be solved - sync the cheater confirmation with other players.
If ANY player detects that someone else is a cheater - kick. In case of host-cheater, kick all three (with the information "the host cheated") and lock down the host lobby.

[heist_id].max_bags = 0
Boom, host lobby gets locked because the client's game detects more than 1 bag

As Ashley said(I swear I've said that at least 5 times already) the false positives mean that Overkill will never have a harsh punishment for cheating except in situations where they can easily prove the person was cheating, like when someone cheats achievements or blatantly admits to cheating or pirating.

[ohmTheWatt]

Well, if valve actually termenated the Steam accounts for the TOS violation I think it would solve the problem.

[Prodigy]

I thought Vac has false positives? or is that what cheaters say?

[ohmTheWatt]

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

I thought Vac has false positives? or is that what cheaters say?

It can. You can be using something like cheat engine to do a randomizer run in borderlands, forget to close cheat engine, then load into a VAC protected server and get a VAC ban. For the most part it's pretty hard to catch a bad VAC ban though. It works by detecting known cheats running.

[ohmTheWatt]

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

I thought Vac has false positives? or is that what cheaters say?

BTW the punishment for using a DLC locker isn't a VAC ban for the game. It's total account termination.

[42 Sav]

Messaggio originale di ohmTheWatt:

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

I thought Vac has false positives? or is that what cheaters say?

It can. You can be using something like cheat engine to do a randomizer run in borderlands, forget to close cheat engine, then load into a VAC protected server and get a VAC ban. For the most part it's pretty hard to catch a bad VAC ban though. It works by detecting known cheats running.

Also there was a time where having a certain graphics mod in Half-Life would get you a VAC ban with no warning from Valve, and of course the mod developers didn't know. It banned thousands of people and Valve to this day refuses to take off the VAC bans.

[42 Sav]

Messaggio originale di ;360672137537715225:

I thought Vac has false positives? or is that what cheaters say?

VAC has false positives but this game doesn't use VAC and never will use VAC. Valve usually doesn't care if you have a false positive unless you are some big person in the community like a pro player or popular streamer. If some random MG2 gets a false positive on CS:GO, Valve won't care, but if someone like Olofmeister or Summit1g has a false positive they would look into it.

Messaggio originale di Overkill_Ashley♥:

Messaggio originale di Omega Riddler:

you know what i say, hire the hoxhud and pocohud guys to help add all the good things from their mods into the game properly, shut down all mods and make it so using mods of any kind will get you banned

That will never happen, we like mods and support then whenever we have the chance to do so. We focus on the game and we cannot develop the game around modding all of the time but we've already made a number of changed to the game to help modding.

We won't lock down modding at all.

The current system can cause false positives especially when it comes to family sharing. We can't enforce harsh punishment when we have a single false positive as a possibility.

As Ashley said(ffs I said it again) they don't want to risk banning anyone on a false positive, so they will never permanently ban anyone unless they have clear proof they cheated.

[Prodigy]

Messaggio originale di ohmTheWatt:

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

I thought Vac has false positives? or is that what cheaters say?

BTW the punishment for using a DLC locker isn't a VAC ban for the game. It's total account termination.

Yes but Ashley said they dont want to ban people because of false positives but vavle do it. I cant imagine any anti cheat exists that doesnt have false positives.

[42 Sav]

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

Messaggio originale di ohmTheWatt:

BTW the punishment for using a DLC locker isn't a VAC ban for the game. It's total account termination.

Yes but Ashley said they dont want to ban people because of false positives but vavle do it. I cant imagine any anti cheat exists that doesnt have false positives.

Exactly. They don't ban people for piracy unless they are 100% sure that they did it, like if the person admits it on a forum post. Especially since the anti-DLC unlocker is the most broken part of the anti-cheat.

[Prodigy]

Messaggio originale di Skeletor:

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

Yes but Ashley said they dont want to ban people because of false positives but vavle do it. I cant imagine any anti cheat exists that doesnt have false positives.

Exactly. They don't ban people for piracy unless they are 100% sure that they did it, like if the person admits it on a forum post. Especially since the anti-DLC unlocker is the most broken part of the anti-cheat.

But the Overkill "ban" is only from the forums and community group its not a game ban. Does VAC ban you from the game for ever or a limited time? Sorry not familiar with VAC.

[42 Sav]

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

Messaggio originale di Skeletor:

Exactly. They don't ban people for piracy unless they are 100% sure that they did it, like if the person admits it on a forum post. Especially since the anti-DLC unlocker is the most broken part of the anti-cheat.

But the Overkill "ban" is only from the forums and community group its not a game ban. Does VAC ban you from the game for ever or a limited time? Sorry not familiar with VAC.

No. I know from experience that you don't get banned ingame and you don't get banned on VAC. It is just banned from the forums and the Payday 2 group.

[Prodigy]

Messaggio originale di Skeletor:

Messaggio originale di =TB= PRoDigY:

But the Overkill "ban" is only from the forums and community group its not a game ban. Does VAC ban you from the game for ever or a limited time? Sorry not familiar with VAC.

No. I know from experience that you don't get banned ingame and you don't get banned on VAC. It is just banned from the forums and the Payday 2 group.

I just said that.