These are our current hitboxes.

[F1st Br34k3r]

http://i.imgur.com/taRNxo3h.jpg

The limbs should borrow some from the head. Note that it's the same size even without the helmet.

[Captain_Yamamoto]

Originally posted by Tuffcooke:

They are, in fact, being worked on. As it's been explained to me by other moderators: The engine is old and since people report struggling to spawn 35 cops at once, upping the CPU useage for each cop by roughly 50% would cause drastic issues such as spawn rates, framerates, and AI pathing. It's a tricky fix, but that being said.....

Originally posted by Datguyoverthere:

Joakim said he's "working" on new hitboxes, but with overkill it's probably not.
Or paid dlc.
Edit: I hope this is a joke because this are god awful hitboxes.

I think it is a bit unfair to assume that because it's Overkill, something is either ignored or will be charged. I'll admit they've been less than efficient, but that seems to be stretching it

i agree. on the PC version.

tell that to a console player, they will laugh at you

[Heroic Sheperd]

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

Originally posted by Overkill_Ashley♥:

I think making it so as many as possible can enjoy the game is important. It's not only about the low end PC's as it is about the engine itself struggling with everything going on as well. It's a very old engine that was never really designed for this kind of stuff.

Some maps like Casino it really struggles on regardless of how fast your PC is due to engine limitations. Putting more stress on the engine is going to cause problems no matter how fast your PC is.

The engine has gone through a LOT of optimization changes but theres only so much you can do with it.

Then update the engine, or make a new game.

The ''We'll continue supporting the game for another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year!'' spiel is all fine and good, but if you're unable to actually improve the game due to ''♥♥♥♥♥♥ engine'' then move. the. ♥♥♥♥. on. You're not doing anyone any favours by intentionally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ them over in the long-run.

They are........ But you know games aren't made overnight right? They acquired an entirely new engine (Valhalla), which probably takes some time to learn coding as its no doubt different than Diesel 2. And They have announced they are working on Payday 3.

They also have other projects going on too like Storm, Crimewar, John Wick VR, Walking Dead, and many other things, so they do have quite a workload. But as long as people are still enjoying Payday 2, which they absolutely are, there is no reason to kill it completely. We can deal with minor optimization problems while eagerly awaiting the new game and engine upgrades.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

The ''We'll continue supporting the game for another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year!'' spiel is all fine and good, but if you're unable to actually improve the game due to ''♥♥♥♥♥♥ engine'' then move. the. ♥♥♥♥. on. You're not doing anyone any favours by intentionally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ them over in the long-run.

Making a sequel to Payday 2 is a bit like making a sequel to an MMO. The new one is never going to have even a smidgen of the old one's content, simply because the old one had years upon years to add more and more content. Frankly, I've personally not noticed arm and leg hitboxes being a perceptable problem for me.

What IS a problem, though, is the stupid SAW hitboxes. No wonder I had such absurd difficulty cutting open cage doors - that hitbox is tiny!

[Phyrric]

Originally posted by « TGH » Heroic Sheperd:

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

Then update the engine, or make a new game.

The ''We'll continue supporting the game for another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year!'' spiel is all fine and good, but if you're unable to actually improve the game due to ''♥♥♥♥♥♥ engine'' then move. the. ♥♥♥♥. on. You're not doing anyone any favours by intentionally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ them over in the long-run.

They are........ But you know games aren't made overnight right? They acquired an entirely new engine (Valhalla), which probably takes some time to learn coding as its no doubt different than Diesel 2. And They have announced they are working on Payday 3.

They also have other projects going on too like Storm, Crimewar, John Wick VR, Walking Dead, and many other things, so they do have quite a workload. But as long as people are still enjoying Payday 2, which they absolutely are, there is no reason to kill it completely. We can deal with minor optimization problems while eagerly awaiting the new game and engine upgrades.

They announced Payday 3? First time I've heard of it.

What they did announce was that they decided to ''grace'' the community with 18 more months of ''support'' for a game which engine they can't improve.

They seriously just need to drop Payday 2 and focus on 3 if they are actually working on it.

[Phyrric]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

The ''We'll continue supporting the game for another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year!'' spiel is all fine and good, but if you're unable to actually improve the game due to ''♥♥♥♥♥♥ engine'' then move. the. ♥♥♥♥. on. You're not doing anyone any favours by intentionally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ them over in the long-run.

Making a sequel to Payday 2 is a bit like making a sequel to an MMO. The new one is never going to have even a smidgen of the old one's content, simply because the old one had years upon years to add more and more content. Frankly, I've personally not noticed arm and leg hitboxes being a perceptable problem for me.

What IS a problem, though, is the stupid SAW hitboxes. No wonder I had such absurd difficulty cutting open cage doors - that hitbox is tiny!

It's not JUST the hitboxes. It's the animation limitations, desync problems (I know it's not the engines fault entirely, but it sure isn't helping), to just general AI problems.

Really, A lot of the problems in the game is supposedly due to the engine, which makes me question it, since modders have been able to add them without adverse effects.

[Heroic Sheperd]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

The ''We'll continue supporting the game for another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year!'' spiel is all fine and good, but if you're unable to actually improve the game due to ''♥♥♥♥♥♥ engine'' then move. the. ♥♥♥♥. on. You're not doing anyone any favours by intentionally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ them over in the long-run.

Making a sequel to Payday 2 is a bit like making a sequel to an MMO. The new one is never going to have even a smidgen of the old one's content, simply because the old one had years upon years to add more and more content. Frankly, I've personally not noticed arm and leg hitboxes being a perceptable problem for me.

What IS a problem, though, is the stupid SAW hitboxes. No wonder I had such absurd difficulty cutting open cage doors - that hitbox is tiny!

They never used to be this bad, I'm guessing it was a coding error after update 100 as they changed a ton of things. The most noticeable I've seen since pre 100 was actually the drillable doors. That hitbox changed massively.

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

Really, A lot of the problems in the game is supposedly due to the engine, which makes me question it, since modders have been able to add them without adverse effects.

It's amazing what the ESF crew has done with the original Half-Life's engine. It looks even better than Source! Engine limitations seem less valid when you see what they've done, but to be fair, they've been working on that mod for years and years. I'm not sure it can even be considered the same engine anymore at this point, though I don't know the exact process that they went through.

[Seven]

If I were to guess, they added or changed the drill hitbox so that you could melee it to restart. There wouldn't really have been any reason to have a big hitbox for the drill prior to that, if there was a reason to have one at all.

[Heroic Sheperd]

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

Originally posted by « TGH » Heroic Sheperd:

They are........ But you know games aren't made overnight right? They acquired an entirely new engine (Valhalla), which probably takes some time to learn coding as its no doubt different than Diesel 2. And They have announced they are working on Payday 3.

They also have other projects going on too like Storm, Crimewar, John Wick VR, Walking Dead, and many other things, so they do have quite a workload. But as long as people are still enjoying Payday 2, which they absolutely are, there is no reason to kill it completely. We can deal with minor optimization problems while eagerly awaiting the new game and engine upgrades.

They announced Payday 3? First time I've heard of it.

What they did announce was that they decided to ''grace'' the community with 18 more months of ''support'' for a game which engine they can't improve.

They seriously just need to drop Payday 2 and focus on 3 if they are actually working on it.

Yes, they announced it in the update 100 announcement along with support contract extension for payday 2, the new safe system, and 505 selling back rights to Overkill.

They didn't announce when it will be released, or even what phase they are in development (likely early preconcept stages) but they did announce a Payday 3 would be made, which is more news than we ever had regarding another sequel.

And why would they drop Payday 2 altogether? There are still average player counts of 8k daily, and high end weekends get 24k. Clearly many players still enjoy it with the problems it has. Overkill hired a lot more new people last year, this is why. Now they need to allocate appropriate resources toward upcoming projects while maintaining what they have properly, if engine limitations are affecting some of the content with current games they need to scale back the scope of their ambitions, but not cut it.

[Heroic Sheperd]

Originally posted by Seven:

If I were to guess, they added or changed the drill hitbox so that you could melee it to restart. There wouldn't really have been any reason to have a big hitbox for the drill prior to that, if there was a reason to have one at all.

That makes complete sense, I didn't even think of this, but I did notice the saw hitboxes were significantly affected only after update 100

[The Mark]

Originally posted by HexaDoken:

Originally posted by {SNS}Reaper <|SlyDi|>:

I suppose smarter AI in exchange for quantity might not be a good idea. I was hoping that exchange could improve performance and make low-end computers more capable.

For the record, I never said it won't. More complicated AI means more load on the CPU, but more complicated AI allows for more difficulty with less enemies, less enemies - less AI, less AI - less load, also less drawing.

I am not experienced enough on AI coding to make any reasonable estimates on whether all of this will even out or not. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Only one way to find out, IMO.

Sorry, never said you did. Looks like there is one way to find out. I feel like Overkill could find that sweet spot of balance, but it will probably take time and resources to test. And we all know how they are on men and workloads.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by CompletedQuill:

It's not JUST the hitboxes. It's the animation limitations, desync problems (I know it's not the engines fault entirely, but it sure isn't helping), to just general AI problems.

And again, I say "content." A sequel to Payday 2 isn't going to launch with 50 heists and eleventy billion guns and 12 characters and so on. Now you may argue that most of that doesn't matter TO YOU, but it matters TO ME. I'd rather have a content-rich shoddy game than a perfect game which doesn't have half the stuff I liked. Hell, just going from Payday: The Heist to Payday 2, you lost a bunch of weapons. Yeah, most (all?) of them were added back in as DLC a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year later, but PD:TH is a much smaller game. Going from Payday 2 to a potential Payday 3, you might get your precious AI but you might not get the guns you like.

And I know people like to ♥♥♥♥♥ about the in-game AI, but I find it to be competent enough. It's a horde shooter, at the end of the day. I don't expect the enemies to be using SWAT 4 tactics. I would definitely much rather have more enemies than tougher or smarter enemies. I've always felt that way. Hordes of enemies give the game a more massive feel. "Smart" enemies I can always get in PvP in other games.

[[RAIDING] CAS]

True Malidictus, the AI in my eyes are replacement for teammates so I do not expect much from them at all.

About the hitboxes, Frank made screenshots to show us the reality of our hitboxes and they are huuuuuuge, maybe this is the reason why Deathwish gets so easy for us like a walk in the park if you developped personal skills and master all (in other words we know how to move, where to hit, what to do, weapons of personal choice we do superb with).

You can not compare Payday The Heist to Payday 2 but I am happy that they kept the Original Heisters in it and stayed true to the core because Payday titles have his own signature and this needs to come back in any upcomming title. Many games can copycat Payday characteristics or content but there will be only one game that has it and that is our Payday.

I hope Overkill watchdog the heritage and keep it as close to heisting as possible in his own Payday way. I do not want to go into details because other developpers read stuff too. But I am sure everyone knows what I mean with the heritage and Original Heisters and running our Heists how we like it..... Payday style, Madness.

I am no programmer, no artists, no wonderkid, no technie but if they make the hitboxes for a saw a bit bigger and the active hitboxes on the body a bit smaller then we have a much better function something and even more enemies can spawn with even less usage of our computers, tests from Salem and others have shown us that resources are not increasing so this could be a win win situation.

I can feel myself in you Malidictus, Carlton and others. I hope that we can help in a calm and reasonable way that makes things easier to work with so that the road is clear and workable so that the solution can be found asap. If it can be fixed then please do so, if not then we need to make the best out of it. Maybe an idea for "Payday 3" to create a total new code made to fit to the new engine to make a brand new start and get the very best out of it and clean the sheat and as less flaws as possible. But for us Heisters it is easier said than done.

We just need to keep our heads together, give our input, show teamwork and help Overkill where we can.

[Hassat Hunter]

Why do I keep agreeing with Malidictus more? Never would have expected that from the pre-100 skill change discussions.

Yes, it does also phantom me why people want less enemies and more AI per enemy when it's a HORDE shooter. Like, they don't know what horde means. No, it's not the same as hoard. Having F.E.A.R. type opponents really wouldn't work in a game like this. Why do people want to keep reducing the enemy forces? I guess they don't realise themselves they would just kill the game and make it stupidly unfun to play, defying all it's gun-gameplay is about. Much like a lot of stealth requests just crap over the entire stealth-gameplay than enhancing it (mostly those "give us enough pagers to dominate each and every stealthmap!" *facepalm*).

And yes, I do agree with him aswell it's very likely people WILL be dissapointed with Payday 3 since it will have a fraction of content, and those people will easily outnumber those happy for "engine improvements". Gamer's in general don't give much of an arse about the engine functionality aslong as it doesn't get in their way. Not to mention most of them don't understand what an engine is in the first place.

Anyway, as already been stated the current issues with the saw is because the drill hitbox is present without the drill, and it's blocking the saw from hitting the door, hitting the invisible drill instead. Seven's theory about it being for auto-restart makes sense, but it's still a bug the collission is there pre-placing the drill instead of being enacted with the drill. If they fix that, they'll fix the saw. Another instance where bugs and changes are inter-connected, and it's easy to say they did X while in reality it's just a side-effect of change Y which has nothing to do with saw's or X at all.

Lastly, my experience most people on forums who prown with "I'm a programmer/game developer" etc. are usually the people spouting the most crap and having no idea what they're talking about what-so-ever. Don't say that's the case here, just my general impression from all forums I frequent over time. With the absolute lowpoint being the "I'm studying to be a programmer. I think they should just update to Crytek engine (for a MMO), it should take about 5 inters a few days to update the engine!"
Ehm, what? If you're really studying I better ask my money back now, since you'll never learn.

[Red]

Originally posted by Hassat Hunter:

Lastly, my experience most people on forums who prown with "I'm a programmer/game developer" etc. are usually the people spouting the most crap and having no idea what they're talking about what-so-ever. Don't say that's the case here, just my general impression from all forums I frequent over time.

It all goes back to this:

Originally posted by Rednavi:

so any legit programmer will not lose his time here explaining stuff to later be dismissed

Although sadly HexaDoken fell victim of my quote by accident. I really didn't count on someone actually posting so much stuff related to general game making stuff, and be right at everything too

It only takes a bit of googling to shut down any "fake" or rather awful game developer though. Basically the moment one person who ever developer a game (Even if unreleased) steps in means the end of any lies from the other "developer".