How do dodge builds work?

[Joshua Kurayami]

I know it is a bit of a strange question to ask, but I have been playing the game with ICTV for ages now, and I was thinking of changing it to try the dodge side of things, which is why I am asking, how does dodge builds work compared to armour builds?

PS: I only have the overkill pack and BBQ pack dlcs if there is anything from them that could make the dodge side any better.

[Daniel]

RNG decides if you get hit or not

[Anonymous FuX]

dodge works like a dice roll, you get lcky and you live, you dont get lucky and you lay on the floor typing " HELP, HELP, HELP ME OR I KICK YOU FROM MY GAME"

somebody comes and helps you and your diceroll begins again, you instantly go down again.

The same guy helps you back up, you run to cover, finally you pluck up the courage to poke your head out from behind cover and you get sniped.

you scream for docbag "MEDS MEDS I NEED MEDS PLSSSS"

A kind heister provides meds 2 pixels away from your feet, you inch out to get them, out of nowhere you get zerged by a bunch of tans and you die and goto custordy, then you rage quit.


Stick to ICTV.

[Joshua Kurayami]

Originally posted by Gambler:

RNG decides if you get hit or not

Originally posted by Anonymous FuX:

dodge works like a dice roll, you get lcky and you live, you dont get lucky and you lay on the floor typing " HELP, HELP, HELP ME OR I KICK YOU FROM MY GAME"

somebody comes and helps you and your diceroll begins again, you instantly go down again.

The same guy helps you back up, you run to cover, finally you pluck up the courage to poke your head out from behind cover and you get sniped.

you scream for docbag "MEDS MEDS I NEED MEDS PLSSSS"

A kind heister provides meds 2 pixels away from your feet, you inch out to get them, out of nowhere you get zerged by a bunch of tans and you die and goto custordy, then you rage quit.


Stick to ICTV.

Thanks for the answers. Clearly this isn't something for me since I already have bad luck trying to get one safe in a week..

[BushElito]

It's also not that fun.

RNG is never fun.

[Erwann]

Originally posted by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Joshua Kurayami:

How do dodge builds work?

They don't. Wear armor, especially for DW.

[Liliana]

"Dodge" builds rely on a concept known as "health layering". While armour simply has one big pile of defense, dodge builds use multiple defences of lower potency. The key concept is that a given attack cannot bypass every defense at once, with some exceptions. You will often be targeted less often, either by perk deck or skill, this is your first defense. Secondly, your dodge chance applies. Third, your armour will protect your fourth defense, health. Dodge builds often really love abilities which increase armour refresh speed, to bring the barrier back up again as fast as possible

There are three main classes of Dodge Build: Pure Dodge, Hybrid Dodge, and Sustain Dodge. Pure Dodge, as in using the rogue perk deck and stacking as much as possible, is basically dead. Hybrid Dodge relies on having both strong dodge, and strong armour to rpotect themselves. Sample hybrid dodge builds use Anarchist and Suit, or Crook and any Ballistic vest. Your high armour is augmented by your dodge, providing several layers of tank. Finally, Sustain Dodge uses grinder or ex-president, sacrificing dodge percentage for health regen.

You can also opt for high concealment, adding more DPS and dodge, but narrowing your weapon choices.

Dodge, unlike armour, is much more restricted in it's perk deck choices. Keep this in mind.

[nomad]

RNG is a factor but it's not as simple as "each bullet is a dice roll".

To get the nitty gritty you should read the long guide, but this has to do with how invincibility frames work in this game. Basically, when you get hit you get a 0.45 second invulnerability window (0.35 on death wish). You can only get hit again in this window by damage that exceeds that which started the cooldown. For example, if you get hit by a sniper or a dozer, you're immune to pretty much any damage for 0.45/0.35 seconds.

There's two facts here that are relevant for dodge users:
1. Dodging an attack starts the cooldown just as if you'd taken damage.
2. You can still dodge attacks during the invulnerability period.

The logical conclusion of 1 and 2 is that if you successfully dodge again during your invulnerability cooldown, you start a new one. This can lead to bizarre situations, e.g. this.

Most of the time, dodge doesn't perform _quite_ this well because unlike the beginning of firestarter d1, you won't be facing a horde of uniform enemies, and so attacks that exceed the damage you dodged will break your dodge chain. But it still happens.

That being said, most people these days running "dodge" builds are using some sort of armor. For example, a standard lbv crook build has something like 130 armor and 40 dodge. This provides some insurance for when dodge fails.

It also bears mentioning that with the current state of the game, suit/lbv builds are not necessarily the same as dodge builds. You can make a suit anarchist with no extra dodge whatsoever and still be viable, for instance. What all these builds have in common, more than the RNG dodge chance, is that they sacrifice durability for mobility. You don't try to tank damage because, sooner or later, RNG fails you. You move out of the way. It's a different playstyle.

[GunsForBucks]

If you play a dodge build as if you have armor, for example using cover and staying with the team, it can be very useful to combine with inspire or jokers
Crook deck with LBV and skills can give you some decent armor .. combine with Judge HE and dual machine pistols or cavity with low conceal and crits and you can be very effective even on DW
The idea is not to rely on dodge all the time, yet still have some great speed to run bags and dash out to inspire when needed.
At least that is how I normally see it played with the people I play with.

[KAİSER]

yeah

[Max]

Originally posted by Gambler:

RNG decides if you get damage or not

FTFY
The bullet still hit you but it does 0 damage.

[Daniel]

Originally posted by Max:

Originally posted by Gambler:

RNG decides if you get damage or not

FTFY
The bullet still hit you but it does 0 damage.

Thanks. I always thought that we can literally dodge bullets

[i c wiener]

Dodge is still powerful and workable on DW, but you need to adjust your expectations when using it.

Dodge is not supposed to allow you to destroy hordes of enemies iwth impunity. Its use is based on good situational awareness and intelligent movement (eg knowing when to take cover to heal). You must accept that you will be downed at some point, so take Feign Death or Swan Song so that you can either insta-revive and run off to heal, or clear the area for your team-mates to revive you.

[Prusak]

They don't
O R I G I N A L J O K E

[No emaN]

Cover is stronger than any armor. Dodge was supposed to be a more objective and high DPS passive of a crew. On DW a stealth guy with a dodge and partial stealth skills can make a hesist flow more easily. Since he's already dealing with objectives and securing bags. Just keep running and crit killing.

[Malidictus]

You can safely ignore people who tell you that "Dodge is all RNG durr-hurr-hurr" as that's speaking out of ignorance. Everything in this game is all RNG because cops have a to-hit check they need to make in order to hit you before ANY of your defences come into play to begin with. Their chance to hit depends on difficulty setting, their weapon, their distance to you and whether they're suppressed or not. All of this applies to dodge, armour, health, regeneration any any other defensive toolset you care to choose. If RNG wills it, you can wear the heaviest armour in the game and simply not get shot as cops miss you repeatedly. Far as I'm aware, there's no streakbreaker in the game.

With dodge, any attack which actually hits you (which is to say, any attack where the cop succeeded his to-hit roll) then has an additional roll which decides whether you take any damage from it. Taking damage initiates a small window of invulnerability where any subsequent attack of equal or less damage is ignored. Dodging an attack initiates a similar invulnerability window, with the added bonus that you still get to roll dodge on attacks which land while you're invulnerable, potentially resetting that window before it has expired. That's why SWAT Van Turrets can make Dodge players untouchable sometimes.

Dodge does not rely so much on dodging attacks as a primary means of defence. More often than not, dodge builds rely on what's known as "armour-gating." With the exception of snipers, no single attack can deal damage to both your armour and your health. Any attack which breaks your armour will still leave your health untouched. At that point, you can use some means of gaining back a portion of armour - be it through Skills or Perk Decks. However little that may be, it's still enough to block a single attack. Since taking damage puts you into an invulnerability state, you're not going to take multiple attacks at once. Dodge gives you a certain amount of leeway in taking damage, which can often be enough to reset whatever means you have of regaining armour, which Armour players typically don't have.

With all of that said, I personally still play dodge like I play armour - fight when I have the upper hand, take cover to regain my armour when overwhelmed, reposition when outflanked. Dodge builds usually have the necessary speed to get out of a bad spot rather than having to make do with poor cover like armour builds often do.