Best perk deck

[Ollaaat]

Whats your favourite perkdeck for stealth and loud?

[Banana Duck ඞ]

it depends on the heist, for instance for stealth: i use Hacker for Four Stores due to cameras, i use Burgler for Mallcrashers because of so many bodies and ecm being useless on that, and for Bomb Dockyard i use Yakuza due to running around so much on it.

And for instance for loud: i use Armorer for No Mercy as its a heist where you dont need the movement speed as you bunker down sitting still for a lot of it, and for Heat Street i use Kingpin as you need the mobility and to move through the streets from point to point while invinsable.

And ofcourse the same goes for skills and weapons; you use different builds that are dependent on the heist that you're currently playing on

[Penguin]

There is no such thing as 'best'. It's all about perspective. But I can highly recommend Ex-President.

Anyone who recommends Dodge build is relying HEAVILY on RNG. Don't trust the numbers

[HungarianPatriot]

Sociopath with an LMG and ICTV is god mode up to and including Death Wish. I sue Burglar for stealth, though I hear there are better options...

[Termi.]

Originally posted by Penguin:

There is no such thing as 'best'. It's all about perspective. But I can highly recommend Ex-President.

Anyone who recommends Dodge build is relying HEAVILY on RNG. Don't trust the numbers

This just screams "I don't know how to use dodge builds at its best".

[Adrian Storm]

for Stealth : Hacker . for Loud : Stoic and Leech

[TheUnchosen]

For stealth, I use Burglar. Hacker is probably the better choice, but I'm so used to Burglar that I don't want to switch off of it. For loud, I use a whole slew of combinations. I like experimenting around with perk decks that I don't use a lot or I don't see others use. At the moment, Sicario is my favorite perk deck. Having a dodge perk deck that relies less on RNG and more on managing armor and smoke bomb placement is fun. I highly recommend anyone currently using Rogue to switch off of it and go for the big brain Sicario perk deck. Or maybe for Hacker, if Sicario is too hard.

[TheUnchosen]

Originally posted by ran:

Originally posted by Penguin:

There is no such thing as 'best'. It's all about perspective. But I can highly recommend Ex-President.

Anyone who recommends Dodge build is relying HEAVILY on RNG. Don't trust the numbers

This just screams "I don't know how to use dodge builds at its best".

What else is there to dodge builds? Unless it's Sicario, the most "skill" you'll need is shooting heads to armorgate and going into cover. Everything else is RNG. I don't know how someone can use dodge builds incorrectly unless they just run out into the open and die, but that can be applied to nearly every other build as well.

[TheUnchosen]

Originally posted by JaStein:

what perkdeck is the best for loud death wish?

The new Leech perk deck is completely broken, and Stoic is pretty overpowered as well. Both do require a bit of practice with timing their own special "throwables". After that, though, you'll be good. Combine any of the two perk decks with converts and Hostage Taker aced, and you'll be invincible.

[Termi.]

Originally posted by TheUnchosen:

What else is there to dodge builds? Unless it's Sicario, the most "skill" you'll need is shooting heads to armorgate and going into cover. Everything else is RNG. I don't know how someone can use dodge builds incorrectly unless they just run out into the open and die, but that can be applied to nearly every other build as well.

Dodge from decks like Rogue and Hacker have dodge values high enough to be relied on. Without it you wouldn’t be able to play aggressively, which is what most people cannot do. It allows you to take risks, and knowing when to take such risks and be aggressive removes the whole “luck” aspect of dodge decks until it becomes largely skill based. It’s not about using it right or wrong, it’s about using it vs using it optimally.

[TheUnchosen]

Originally posted by ran:

Originally posted by TheUnchosen:

What else is there to dodge builds? Unless it's Sicario, the most "skill" you'll need is shooting heads to armorgate and going into cover. Everything else is RNG. I don't know how someone can use dodge builds incorrectly unless they just run out into the open and die, but that can be applied to nearly every other build as well.

Dodge from decks like Rogue and Hacker have dodge values high enough to be relied on. Without it you wouldn’t be able to play aggressively, which is what most people cannot do. It allows you to take risks, and knowing when to take such risks and be aggressive removes the whole “luck” aspect of dodge decks until it becomes largely skill based. It’s not about using it right or wrong, it’s about using it vs using it optimally.

For Hacker, that's true. The dodge value is high enough with Sneaky Basterd that you can be stupidly aggressive, and if your dodge fails somehow you still have pocket ECMs to wipe out crowds and regain any health lost. This doesn't exactly make it skill based, mind you, and I'd say this makes the deck nearly as easy as something like Stoic to play (from my own personal experience). Just trigger the ECM, run up to a crowd, and shoot em all. As for Rogue, that's simply not true. You cannot rely on Rogue's dodge values, even with Sneaky Basterd. Plus, there's nothing else to the perk deck other than the dodge (and the weapon swap, but no one cares about that). There's no real difference in playstyle compared to most decks, and nothing skill based that I've noticed while using it. You just shoot stuff and get lucky while shooting stuff. At least with Hacker you technically have to time your throwable, which can be considered skill based. Rogue has nothing.

[Termi.]

Originally posted by TheUnchosen:

snip

The point I was trying to make was that there’s a difference between someone who equips a dodge build vs one who can use dodge builds optimally. And Rogue’s dodge is high enough to be relied on. You cannot be anywhere near as aggressive with Grinder as you would be with Rogue, for example, and that’s thanks to its dodge.

[TheUnchosen]

Originally posted by ran:

Originally posted by TheUnchosen:

snip

The point I was trying to make was that there’s a difference between someone who equips a dodge build vs one who can use dodge builds optimally. And Rogue’s dodge is high enough to be relied on. You cannot be anywhere near as aggressive with Grinder as you would be with Rogue, for example, and that’s thanks to its dodge.

Yes you can. You're kidding me, right? At least Grinder is rather consistent. Pick up a high damage weapon and a convert and you should do well. Sure, it's definitely on a lower tier than Rogue, but it requires more skill because you aren't relying on RNG to make your plays. I believe skill was one of your previous argument points.

I'm a rather aggressive player, and on most pub games that I play, I get the highest kills out of everyone in the lobby. I perform as well, if not better, with Grinder than with Rogue. Perhaps you aren't using your Grinder build optimally.

[Termi.]

Originally posted by TheUnchosen:

Originally posted by ran:

The point I was trying to make was that there’s a difference between someone who equips a dodge build vs one who can use dodge builds optimally. And Rogue’s dodge is high enough to be relied on. You cannot be anywhere near as aggressive with Grinder as you would be with Rogue, for example, and that’s thanks to its dodge.

Yes you can. You're kidding me, right? At least Grinder is rather consistent. Pick up a high damage weapon and a convert and you should do well. Sure, it's definitely on a lower tier than Rogue, but it requires more skill because you aren't relying on RNG to make your plays. I believe skill was one of your previous argument points.

I'm a rather aggressive player, and on most pub games that I play, I get the highest kills out of everyone in the lobby. I perform as well, if not better, with Grinder than with Rogue. Perhaps you aren't using your Grinder build optimally.

1. Grinder is consistent, so is Rogue's dodge. It's consistent enough for you to be hyper aggressive with it.
2. "Pick up a high damage weapon"...at this point you might as well take Akimbo Krinkovs with Bulletstorm and say you can play Yakuza aggressively.
3. Grinder is easy as heck to use, you shoot, you get HP, there's nothing else to Grinder. It doesn't take up any skill just because it's a lower tier than Rogue. There's nothing particularly special or unique you can do with that. With dodge, you are allowed to be aggressive. Whether or not you can use that well is a different story. And before you tell me to "try no downs with Grinder and see how well you do", that doesn't prove anything about how hard a deck is. The deck is just weak, not hard to use.
4. I'm also an aggressive player, and I get the most kills, least downs and most objectives in pubs with Grinder. Grinder is at most as skilful as Rogue because that's all the deck offers; you shoot a cop, you get HP back, that's it.

[fumbled]

Originally posted by JaStein:

Whats your favourite perkdeck for stealth and loud?

If you're talking about a perk deck that's good for loud and stealth, i suggest hacker

[TheUnchosen]

Originally posted by ran:

Originally posted by TheUnchosen:

Argument

Counterargument

In what world is RNG consistent? RNG, by definition, is inconsistent. No matter how "optimally" you play Rogue, there will be heists in which you dodge everything and heists where you dodge nothing. And also, weak perk decks will very obviously take more skill to use than stronger perk decks. You need to put more effort into getting the same results. Sure, there's some strong decks out there that also require skill to use. But weak decks in particular require skill because they're weak. With this, I'd also like to clarify that there's really nothing wrong with picking a "good" perk deck and I don't want to look as if I'm looking down on people for doing so. It's just Rogue that I have a problem with. People put it on a higher pedestal than it should be when every other single deck in the game offers more consistent benefits. With every other deck, the outcome of the heist is determined by how you play with it. With Rogue, while you still play some role in the outcome, a good chunk of that outcome is now determined by RNG. That fact alone makes me dislike Rogue more than most loud decks I've played.