How does the explosive ammo for shotguns work with damage?

[FireDrake]

Long ago, when I tested it, I required half a mag of the Street Sweeper to kill a cop even on OVK difficulty, despite him being stunned with every shot, while weapons like the Judge or the Mosconi killed much quicker with it.

However, a couple times I've seen low damage shotguns being recommended with HE ammo, so I've been wondering if I tested wrong and it's the same damage for any damage value, if things have changed in a hotfix since then, or if the capacity to continuosly stun is appreciated that much.

[Rokk]

Low damage shotguns are recommended for HE, because they usually fire faster, have higher ammo pickup, and because the damage makes little difference.

[Milk]

Originally posted by FireDrake / Flappy Floof:

Long ago, when I tested it, I required half a mag of the Street Sweeper to kill a cop even on OVK difficulty, despite him being stunned with every shot, while weapons like the Judge or the Mosconi killed much quicker with it.

However, a couple times I've seen low damage shotguns being recommended with HE ammo, so I've been wondering if I tested wrong and it's the same damage for any damage value, if things have changed in a hotfix since then, or if the capacity to continuosly stun is appreciated that much.

It's basically a hitscan grenade. That does piss poor damage.

[The Least Interesting Chibi...]

Because low damage shotguns can generally be used with crit builds, which HE can benefit from. The only advantage HE has over 11 pellet ammo is that it can have a crit-AoE and has the longest range of all ammo types. Frankly you're better off with 000 or Dragon's Breath rounds. Save HE for mid-tier shotguns and Judges.

[Milk]

Originally posted by The Least Interesting Chibi...:

Because low damage shotguns can generally be used with crit builds, which HE can benefit from. The only advantage HE has over 11 pellet ammo is that it can have a crit-AoE and has the longest range of all ammo types. Frankly you're better off with 000 or Dragon's Breath rounds. Save HE for mid-tier shotguns and Judges.

Even with crits, HE is garbage.

[among us balls]

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

Originally posted by The Least Interesting Chibi...:

Because low damage shotguns can generally be used with crit builds, which HE can benefit from. The only advantage HE has over 11 pellet ammo is that it can have a crit-AoE and has the longest range of all ammo types. Frankly you're better off with 000 or Dragon's Breath rounds. Save HE for mid-tier shotguns and Judges.

Even with crits, HE is garbage.

Say, would you know how the f*ck people make it work with the judge though?

I'm not trying to argue or anything, I honestly am trying to figure it out after some guy saved my a*s with it on one-down.

[The Least Interesting Chibi...]

Originally posted by Giovanni:

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

Even with crits, HE is garbage.

Say, would you know how the f*ck people make it work with the judge though?

I'm not trying to argue or anything, I honestly am trying to figure it out after some guy saved my a*s with it on one-down.

Because with a combination of Swan Song, Judge's naturally high DPS, and that critical hits score headshot multipliers (except for Bulldozers and Turrets) means that you can rapid fire without aiming, and do near 'One-Hit-Kill' damage on an AoE scale. Think of it as a GL that's fires like a bullet, but still can get "headshots".

I personally don't use it, since I find Swan Song a replusive and horrible skill, but players like their God-mode moments.

[Milk]

Originally posted by Giovanni:

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

Even with crits, HE is garbage.

Say, would you know how the f*ck people make it work with the judge though?

I'm not trying to argue or anything, I honestly am trying to figure it out after some guy saved my a*s with it on one-down.

If you can stack damage with Beserker and overkill combined with the high damage from the judge, then you can have a somewhat decent HE damage with a crit (it essentially becomes a GL at that point).

[CordedUberator]

Originally posted by Giovanni:

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

Even with crits, HE is garbage.

Say, would you know how the f*ck people make it work with the judge though?

I'm not trying to argue or anything, I honestly am trying to figure it out after some guy saved my a*s with it on one-down.

On OD, I personally just tend to get lots of kills with my Bros Grimms, and then use the Overkill ability + crits to basically 1-2 shot any shield, or quickly break the faceplates of dozers and then just unload back with Grimms.

[The Least Interesting Chibi...]

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

Originally posted by Giovanni:

Say, would you know how the f*ck people make it work with the judge though?

I'm not trying to argue or anything, I honestly am trying to figure it out after some guy saved my a*s with it on one-down.

If you can stack damage with Beserker and overkill combined with the high damage from the judge, then you can have a somewhat decent HE damage with a crit (it essentially becomes a GL at that point).

You don't even need Beserker. All you need is Overkill, Shotgun Impact and Specialized Killing. If you crit you reach the one hit breakpoint. Although the point of a Judge isn't so much about semiautomatic, so really all you need is a critical hit on two shots, as you spam the shots around. The key isn't so much focus fire but having the right overlap of the HE AoE.

[Milk]

Originally posted by The Least Interesting Chibi...:

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

If you can stack damage with Beserker and overkill combined with the high damage from the judge, then you can have a somewhat decent HE damage with a crit (it essentially becomes a GL at that point).

You don't even need Beserker. All you need is Overkill, Shotgun Impact and Specialized Killing. If you crit you reach the one hit breakpoint. Although the point of a Judge isn't so much about semiautomatic, so really all you need is a critical hit on two shots, as you spam the shots around. The key isn't so much focus fire but having the right overlap of the HE AoE.

Hmm, so it's like, what, 150 base. double it (105% from SK + OVK) and you have 300 damage.

Crit does what, 3x damage? So on a direct hit it does like, 900 damage? It'll kill the babies but not the tans.

With beserker at like essentially 100% (You can't get 100% exactly without swansong, but whatever) it's basically 450 damage. Which 3x is still not enough for a tan on OD, even with a crit. It does hit slightly harder than a GL tho, so there is that

EDIT: Oh I forgot the shotgun impact stuff.

So that's like +15% more damage, which increases the damage to like 472. But it's still not enough to one shot a tan with a crit.

[The Least Interesting Chibi...]

Originally posted by Bobcat Floof:

Originally posted by The Least Interesting Chibi...:

You don't even need Beserker. All you need is Overkill, Shotgun Impact and Specialized Killing. If you crit you reach the one hit breakpoint. Although the point of a Judge isn't so much about semiautomatic, so really all you need is a critical hit on two shots, as you spam the shots around. The key isn't so much focus fire but having the right overlap of the HE AoE.

Hmm, so it's like, what, 150 base. double it (105% from SK + OVK) and you have 300 damage.

Crit does what, 3x damage? So on a direct hit it does like, 900 damage? It'll kill the babies but not the tans.

With beserker at like essentially 100% (You can't get 100% exactly without swansong, but whatever) it's basically 450 damage. Which 3x is still not enough for a tan on OD, even with a crit. It does hit slightly harder than a GL tho, so there is that :tipheal:

EDIT: Oh I forgot the shotgun impact stuff.

So that's like +15% more damage, which increases the damage to like 472. But it's still not enough to one shot a tan with a crit.

A Judge is 154 with a silencer. And bonuses are multiplicative and not additive. So it goes 154 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.75 = 409. The critical multiplier is the headshot multiplier, which is dependent on the difficulty. I just went by the headshot breakpoint for non-specials on OD which is less than 400.

Soooo it's totally possible without Beserker. But that's besides the point I was raising which is you don't care so much about OHK with a Judge HE since it's a rapid fire AoE.

[Milk]

They're multiplicative like that? Oh ok. I was always told they always applied to the base only