Open BETA damage range multipliers

[OVERKILL_DENKA]

The beta is now closed! Thank you all so much for participating and providing us with a lot of feedback. We will be spending some time reviewing the data and will be keeping this in mind when we make our decisions on how to continue balancing the game.




Hi everyone!


If you're reading this you are in the right place if you want to access the open beta.

Before we start I'd like to say something.
This balance change is just the start of things to come so don't worry!

Touching the weapon balance is always difficult no matter what, for us to nail this down as best as we possibly can, we are going to need your help!

Why are we doing this?
As some of you know the meta in PAYDAY 2 has been the same since 2017 and in some cases even longer, a lot of the weapons are underused so let's try to fix that as best as we can. To change things up more than just tweaking ammo pickups and change damage we've created a new system.

We call the system "Damage Range Multipliers".

This system will apply different damage multipliers depending on the range between you are your target. This will hopefully change up the meta and make the gunplay feel interesting.

The goals of this system are to:

• Differentiate weapon archetypes and damage categories.
  
• Expand the pool of viable weapons.
  
• Establish new playstyles with these weapons.
  
• Enable more design space for future weapon release and tweaks.

Example of how the new system works
So if a weapon is stronger than 100% of it’s base damage for a specific range it will most commonly also be weaker at some range at the opposite side of the spectrum, whether it be in close-quarter or far ranges.
(YES! Weapons can go above 100% base damage!)

We have also introduced a new "hit indicator". It displays the lowest point of damage, the precentage of damage loss when it comes to lowest point of damage will differ between weapon archetypes . All this is derived from the weapons archetype and category within the archetype.

The Beta
We hope you’ll enjoy the changes and that it gives a fresh feel to the gunplay. Before we can go live these changes, we will ask you to help validate them. After this beta we’ll make some final tweaking depending on your feedback then we hit the button!

To join the beta follow the instructions in the Beta Announcement.

Here you can find the Beta Feedback Survey.[ovk.af]

Other Changes
Other than the new "Damage Range Multiplier" system we’ve also made some significant changes to the weapon stats to compensate for the changes in power that come with the system. Here is a full changelog of the changes made in the beta.

Ammo Pickup
Exact values may differ slightly between weapons.

• High Damage (DMR) Assault Rifles have their Ammo Pickup increased from 1 bullet to approximately 2-3 bullets.
  - M308, Galant, Cavity 9mm, Little Friend 7.62
  
  
• DMR Kits for Assault Rifles have their Ammo Pickup increased from 1 bullet to approximately 2-3 bullets.
  - AK, AMR-16, Golden AK.762, AK.762, Gewehr 3, CAR-4
  
  
• Medium Damage Assault Rifles have their Ammo Pickup increased from between 1-7 to approximately 4-6 bullets.
  - AMR-16, Golden AK.762, AK.762, Eagle Heavy, Falcon, Gewehr 3, AK17
  
  
• Medium Damage Light Machine Guns have their Ammo Pickup decreased from approximately 26-29 to approximately 14-16 bullets.
  - Ksp 58, KSP, Buzzsaw 42
  
  
• High Damage Light Machine Guns have their Ammo Pickup decreased from approximately 26-29 to approximately 8-10 bullets.
  - M60, RPK, Brenner 21
  
  
• The Underbarrel for Little Friend 7.62 Assault Rifle has it's Ammo Pickup decreased from approximately 50% to approximately 25%.

Recoil Behavior

• Light Machine Guns have received new recoil behaviors.
  - Ksp 58, KSP, Buzzsaw 42, M60, RPK, Brenner 21
  
  
• Some Assault Rifles have received new recoil behaviors.
  - AMR-16, Tempest-21 Rifle
  
  
• Some Sniper Rifles have received new recoil behaviors.
  - Lebensauger .308, Contractor .308, Grom
  
  
• Mark 10 Submachine Gun have received new a recoil behavior.

Fire Rate

• Low Damage Sniper Rifles have their Fire Rate increased from 160 to 240.
  - Lebensauger .308, Contractor .308, Grom
  
  
• Low Damage Pistols have as their Fire Rate increased from to approximately 480 to 545.
  - Chimano 88, Chimano Compact, M13 9mm, Bernetti 9, Crosskill Guard Gruber Kurz
  
  
• Medium Damage Pistols have their Fire Rate increased from approximately 361 to 480.
  - Interceptor .45, Chimano Custom, Crosskill, Signature .40, Broomstick, LEO, HOLT, Contractor, Crosskill Chunky Compact
  
  
• High Damage Pistols and Revolvers have their Fire Rate increased from approximately 230 to 400.
  - White Streak, Deagle, Baby Deagle, Model 87, Bronco .44, Parabellum, Castigo .44, Peacemaker .45, Matever .357

Total Ammo
Exact values may differ slightly between weapons. The before values are averages of the weapons in the given archetype. These changes will also give a slight increase in the Ammo Pickup for these weapons.

• Low Damage Submachine Akimbos has their Total Ammo increased from approximately 240 to approximately 300.
  - Akimbo Patchett L2A1, Akimbo CMP, Akimbo Cobra, Akimbo Compact-5, Akimbo Micro Uzi, Akimbo Signature, Akimbo Uzi, Akimbo Blaster 9mm
  
  
• Medium Damage Submachine Akimbos has their Total Ammo increased from approximately 180 bullets to approximately 230 bullets.
  - Akimbo Para, Akimbo Kobus 90, Akimbo Jacket's Piece, Akimbo Chicago Typewriter, Akimbo Heather, Akimbo Kross Vertex, Akimbo Mark 10, Akimbo SpecOps, Akimbo AK, Gen 21 Tactical
  
  
• High Damage Submachine Akimbos has their Total Ammo increased from approximately 120 bullets to approximately 160 bullets.
  - Akimbo CR 805B, Akimbo Jackal, Akimbo Krinkov, Akimbo MP40, Akimbo Swedish K, Akimbo Tatonka
  
  
• Little Friend 7.62 Assault Rifle has its Total Ammo increased from 40 bullets to approximately 60 bullets.

Damage

• Chimano 88 has had its damage increased from 35 to 37.

Range

• Some special ammo types for Shotguns will no longer affect the range at which the weapon is effective.
  - Flechette, Dragons Breath
  
  
• HE Round special ammo types for Shotguns have their range boost decreased from 70% to 40%.
  
  
• AP Slug special ammo types for Shotguns have their maximum range boost decreased from 250% to 115%.

After playing the beta, don't forget to fill in the Beta Feedback Survey.[ovk.af]

Happy heisting!

/Denka
>:]

[SBZ_Elisabeth]

FAQ
Q: How long will the beta be open for?
A: The beta will be open until the 8th of March.

Q: How do I download the beta?
A: Find PAYDAY 2 in your Steam Library, then navigate to Properties > Betas > Select open_beta from the drop down.

Q: Does my progress in the beta carry over to the main game?
A: Yes. The beta uses the same save file as the regular game, so progress will be the same in both versions.

Q: Where can we see the changed values?
A: We have purposefully not revealed the changed values to be able to get your honest opinion on how the changes feel, as opposed to a placebo effect created by knowing the values beforehand. Whether you feel a big difference or none at all, please make sure to fill in the feedback survey so we can use this data to decide on whether more adjustments are needed.

[Niki]

It's great we can be a part of this!

[XplosiveP3nguin]

Great to see such a good game is still getting attention. Cant wait for PD3!

[Mr. Blue]

It'd be great if part of the beta included improvements to the VR mode. As it stands, there are still a few weapons we cant use in VR. And playing on the index controllers can be very annoying and difficult without mods.

[Oreztov]

Will the new weapons also be rebalanced in the future (Border Crossing onward)? I notice a lack of them in the beta patch notes except for the HOLT and M60 (I hope for a buff to the auto pistols from San Martin and a reason to use the Bernetti Rangehitter over the Contractor sniper)

[Hatch]

i'd like to see how it feels... but 'Damage Range Multipliers' seems like a complicated and unnecessary system.

[Keeneye47/Wolfkeen]

Originally posted by Oreztov:

Will the new weapons also be rebalanced in the future (Border Crossing onward)? I notice a lack of them in the beta patch notes except for the HOLT and M60 (I hope for a buff to the auto pistols from San Martin and a reason to use the Bernetti Rangehitter over the Contractor sniper)

I agree with this. As someone who plays in VR, it'd be nice to see VR improvements, especially with these new systems in play. I know that's not the main objective behind this, but I still think it's important to keep that in mind for those who enjoy playing this in VR.

[AlexBrey]

I dont know what to think, payday 2 haved good and bad updates, we will neeed to probe it.

[Raviness]

I know this is a beta, but do any special weapons take any effect from this new effective range mechanic? Specifically miniguns, since its N/A compared to all other wep categories.

[burger enjoyer]

Hopefully shotguns won't be sniper rifles no more, will the cops also have the same damage falloff like players? It's annoying to be shot full damage across the map.

[OVERKILL_DENKA]

None of the special weapons gets affect by this system "so far".

[킬지매군]

and what about the "SMG" They change Yet?

[Jayden]

Quick question - can you still gain XP and cash etc in the open beta and carry it over to the main branch of the game or is it separate?

[SBZ_Elisabeth]

Originally posted by Jayden:

Quick question - can you still gain XP and cash etc in the open beta and carry it over to the main branch of the game or is it separate?

Yes, progress in the beta uses the same save file, so progress will carry over to the regular version.

[depricated]

Why do damage gets increased for longer ranges and not the opposite?

Just tested it and it is kinda dumb when damage is lower on close range with a 150 ammo rifle.with 59 damage setup you 5 tap heavy while you are 25 m away from target you get 4 shot.

Can't we just make it like team fortress 2 damage ramp up and falloff system for some specific weapon catagorys like smg, lmg and shotguns leave the rest as is?