How much damage absorption that is good enough for DS?

[「La+ Darknesss ⸸」]

Still messing around with the modding. As you know that Maniac is useless on high difficulty, so what is the good amount of damage absorption that is good enough for DS?

[SpritePony]

Don't balance around DS, for the love of God. That's a terrible idea. Balance around DW instead.

[I predict the past]

Not useless, but surely one of the worst perks in the game. So heavies deal 225 damage on DS, Maniac gives like 40 DMG absroption? I don't remember, but Crew Chief outclasses it so insanely hard, it's crazy. There should be % damage reduction for Maniac too instead of numbers.

[Artemis0.5]

don't.

[I predict the past]

Originally posted by Scrungofan0.5:

don't.

*insert dancing dog*

[Artemis0.5]

Originally posted by =PT$D= ZEN Yokai:

Originally posted by Scrungofan0.5:

don't.

*insert dancing dog*

this'll probably get blocked but eh https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/617408063791693855/724259803534327838/image0.gif

[「La+ Darknesss ⸸」]

Originally posted by Sprite:

Don't balance around DS, for the love of God. That's a terrible idea. Balance around DW instead.

I ask for the value, doesn't mean that I'll use that value for DS.

Originally posted by =PT$D= ZEN Yokai:

Not useless, but surely one of the worst perks in the game. So heavies deal 225 damage on DS, Maniac gives like 40 DMG absroption? I don't remember, but Crew Chief outclasses it so insanely hard, it's crazy. There should be % damage reduction for Maniac too instead of numbers.

The last perk is bugging and does not work, so it's only give you 24 dmg absorption.

[Meredith K Pseudonym]

If you're willing to take Frenzy and Ace Underdog, you'd still be looking at about 80-something*, really. That's not taking into consideration that I've never seen a Maniac keep their Hysteria above 50% for more than two ticks, never mind maintain 100%.

* This breaks the rest of the game, especially with Crew Chief who can team up with Maniac to trivialise the hell out of Death Wish.

[「La+ Darknesss ⸸」]

Originally posted by Meredith K. Pseudonym:

If you're willing to take Frenzy and Ace Underdog, you'd still be looking at about 80-something*, really. That's not taking into consideration that I've never seen a Maniac keep their Hysteria above 50% for more than two ticks, never mind maintain 100%.

* This breaks the rest of the game, especially with Crew Chief who can team up with Maniac to trivialise the hell out of Death Wish.

So I should keep it 80 absorb at maximum if you mean that, thanks.

[Mustard Seeds]

Originally posted by 「⸸ Mostima」:

Originally posted by Meredith K. Pseudonym:

If you're willing to take Frenzy and Ace Underdog, you'd still be looking at about 80-something*, really. That's not taking into consideration that I've never seen a Maniac keep their Hysteria above 50% for more than two ticks, never mind maintain 100%.

So I should keep it 80 absorb at maximum if you mean that, thanks.

damage absorbtion ≠ damage reduction.

The answer you picked as the correct answer is suggesting DR as the solution which even with your answer would be 100%, as 80% hysteria isn't enough to stop the damage DS enemies do, but that's pretty hard to pull off consistently due how bad the perk is.

As DA on it's own doesn't quite work on DS even by keeping a 100% hysteria stacked due the damage enemies do which is pretty high rendering the absorption and how it works useless, only way it's useable is by having 43 DR with a crew chief + 100% DA with ICTV playing maniac perfectly keeping the hysteria at 100% at all times and even with that isn't quite enough to absorb all of the incoming damage as a 225 with 43 DR becomes about 105 ish damage granting about 3 armour hits and 1 HP and with DA you would need to have it above 100 or 80% so you absorb the damage with hysteria taking even less damage, but that's only with a CC and maniac ICTV with all DR skills, I'm not even considering the damage green and black dozers do with is 650 and 510, all your armour would be gone since the hysteria stacks decay pretty fast and since you're running frenzy that's enough to be one shotted by other enemies even if they do less than 110 damage and the fact that there's more than 1 or 2 enemies to make calculations for, that shoot more than once for insane damage.

On anything below DW works, but for DS even 100% DA is a nope and Overkill needs to rework the deck for it.

[Leonard Wolf]

Originally posted by Mustard Seeds:

Originally posted by 「⸸ Mostima」:

So I should keep it 80 absorb at maximum if you mean that, thanks.

damage absorbtion ≠ damage reduction.

The answer you picked as the correct answer is suggesting DR as the solution which even with your answer would be 100%, as 80% hysteria isn't enough to stop the damage DS enemies do, but that's pretty hard to pull off consistently due how bad the perk is.

As DA on it's own doesn't quite work on DS even by keeping a 100% hysteria stacked due the damage enemies do which is pretty high rendering the absorption and how it works useless, only way it's useable is by having 43 DR with a crew chief + 100% DA with ICTV playing maniac perfectly keeping the hysteria at 100% at all times and even with that isn't quite enough to absorb all of the incoming damage as a 225 with 43 DR becomes about 105 ish damage granting about 3 armour hits and 1 HP and with DA you would need to have it above 100 or 80% so you absorb the damage with hysteria taking even less damage, but that's only with a CC and maniac ICTV with all DR skills, I'm not even considering the damage green and black dozers do with is 650 and 510, all your armour would be gone since the hysteria stacks decay pretty fast and since you're running frenzy that's enough to be one shotted by other enemies even if they do less than 110 damage and the fact that there's more than 1 or 2 enemies to make calculations for, that shoot more than once for insane damage.

On anything below DW works, but for DS is a nope and Overkill needs to rework the deck for it.

Maybe they should be working more on balancing and less on new dlcs.
Oh well,Payday the heist is basicly the same,in terms of "Perks"
Only Agressor and Big game hunters are any good for overkill 145+,and more blood to breed,if you count that.

[Meredith K Pseudonym]

Originally posted by Mustard Seeds:

The answer you picked as the correct answer is suggesting DR as the solution which even with your answer would be 100%, as 80% hysteria isn't enough to stop the damage DS enemies do, but that's pretty hard to pull off consistently due how bad the perk is.

225 * 0.7 * 0.85 = 133. 134 - 80 = 54, not too much below unmodified Death Wish damage.

[Mustard Seeds]

Originally posted by Meredith K. Pseudonym:

Originally posted by Mustard Seeds:

The answer you picked as the correct answer is suggesting DR as the solution which even with your answer would be 100%, as 80% hysteria isn't enough to stop the damage DS enemies do, but that's pretty hard to pull off consistently due how bad the perk is.

225 * 0.7 * 0.85 = 133. 134 - 80 = 54, not too much below unmodified Death Wish damage.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, as HUDs that display numbers tell me a different story when I've tried all DR skills + maniac.

[Meredith K Pseudonym]

I can admit the system might be a lot more convoluted than I thought but I do see Damage Absorption occuring before some Damage Reduction.

Taking notes just now:

Death Wish difficulty, Enemy Spawner 2, spawning FBI 2.
Range: The spawn point to the "spawn enemy" button.
Mods used: HUDList (buff tracking), PocoHud (damage indicators)

BUFFS                 DMG     CALC
Nothing:               75
Frenzy:                56 : : 75 * .75 = 56.25
Max Hysteria:          51 : : 75 - 600/25 * 2 = 27(!?!)
Frenzy + Max Hysteria  32 : : (75 - 24) * .75 = 38.25 
                              75 * .75 - 24 = 32.35
Frenzy + Max Hysteria + Underdog: 
                       27 : : (75 - 24) * .85 * .75 = 32.5125
 - Wait:                      75 * .85 * .75 - 24 = 23.8125 
 - Hold on:                   (75 * .85 - 24) * .75 = 29.8125 
 - ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:                 (75 * .75 - 24) * .85 = 27.4125

To me it looks like the damage is being cut by Frenzy, then Maniac, then Underdog, in that order.

Edit: Needless to say, I find this observation is correct.

Originally posted by 「⸸ Mostima」:

The last perk is bugging and does not work, so it's only give you 24 dmg absorption.

[Mustard Seeds]

Originally posted by Meredith K. Pseudonym:

I can admit the system might be a lot more convoluted than I thought but I do see Damage Absorption occuring before some Damage Reduction.

Taking notes just now:

Death Wish difficulty, Enemy Spawner 2, spawning FBI 2.
Range: The spawn point to the "spawn enemy" button.
Mods used: HUDList (buff tracking), PocoHud (damage indicators)

BUFFS                 DMG     CALC
Nothing:               75
Frenzy:                56 : : 75 * .75 = 56.25
Max Hysteria:          51 : : 75 - 600/25 * 2 = 27(!?!)
Frenzy + Max Hysteria + Underdog: 
                       27 : : 51 * .85 * .75 = 32.5125
 - Wait:                      75 * .85 * .75 - 24 = 23.8125 
 - Hold on:                   (75 * .85 - 24) * .75 = 29.8125 
 - ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:                 (75 * .75 - 24) * .85 = 27.4125

To me it looks like the damage is being cut by Frenzy, then Maniac, then Underdog, in that order.

DR calculations were applied altogether if I recall correctly, DA was done separately and then it extracted from the total damage you took leaving you just with the remaining damage it passed through the hysteria percentage you had which is why I don't think hysteria percentages mattered much other than 100% as some damage on DS still makes it through.

Gonna test later on in DS, as from what I remember DA wasn't enough to hold back 225x2 damage with less than max hysteria.

[「La+ Darknesss ⸸」]

Originally posted by Mustard Seeds:

The answer you picked as the correct answer is suggesting DR as the solution which even with your answer would be 100%, as 80% hysteria isn't enough to stop the damage DS enemies do, but that's pretty hard to pull off consistently due how bad the perk is.

As DA on it's own doesn't quite work on DS even by keeping a 100% hysteria stacked due the damage enemies do which is pretty high rendering the absorption and how it works useless, only way it's useable is by having 43 DR with a crew chief + 100% DA with ICTV playing maniac perfectly keeping the hysteria at 100% at all times and even with that isn't quite enough to absorb all of the incoming damage as a 225 with 43 DR becomes about 105 ish damage granting about 3 armour hits and 1 HP and with DA you would need to have it above 100 or 80% so you absorb the damage with hysteria taking even less damage, but that's only with a CC and maniac ICTV with all DR skills, I'm not even considering the damage green and black dozers do with is 650 and 510, all your armour would be gone since the hysteria stacks decay pretty fast and since you're running frenzy that's enough to be one shotted by other enemies even if they do less than 110 damage and the fact that there's more than 1 or 2 enemies to make calculations for, that shoot more than once for insane damage.

On anything below DW works, but for DS even 100% DA is a nope and Overkill needs to rework the deck for it.

So the main problem is its inconsistency of keeping maniac stacks? And the problem that people can't keep the stacks at max all the time?

My mod is pretty much in alpha state, so this can be subject to changes, and you helped with the how it works in-game with other skills helped me a lot.