How does the joker health bonus scale with Anarchist deck?

[Krēslplēsis]

I seriously have no clue about this, tried to make ICTV + frenzy build and adding joker bonuses seemed to give pretty much nothing.
Does it scale of the 115hp left or the base 230hp, and how is it calculated once you get the bonus HP, does it add to the 115hp and take 50% of that or add to the base 230hp and than take 50% from that.

I really got my brain into a twist testing and trying to figure this out.
Shown HP, armor in a heist would be a nice touch from overkill to see how it changes with stuff like joker.

[Gamecrazy009]

I would assume it's off Anarchist.

The loadout screen shows your total health (no in-game bonuses) so the game should use that as your base health for the bonus from Partner In Crime.

It would be nice if the HuD showed you active skills like Overkill or Underdog..

[Krēslplēsis]

Originally posted by Gamecrazy009 (Birthday tho):

I would assume it's off Anarchist.

The loadout screen shows your total health (no in-game bonuses) so the game should use that as your base health for the bonus from Partner In Crime.

It would be nice if the HuD showed you active skills like Overkill or Underdog..

Yeah ok I was kinda sure it scaled 30% bonus from the 115HP, but after that anarchist converts 50% of your health into 120% armor, and here is where I have no clue how the game cuts your health, does further reduce your 115+34.5(30%) hp to give you armor or does it add the 34.5(30%) to 230 base health and then reduce it to give you armor....or does it just take 50% from the 30% bonus HP and add to your total armor pool.
Too many options.

[Gamecrazy009]

Originally posted by PHC$XexecristLV:

Originally posted by Gamecrazy009 (Birthday tho):

I would assume it's off Anarchist.

The loadout screen shows your total health (no in-game bonuses) so the game should use that as your base health for the bonus from Partner In Crime.

It would be nice if the HuD showed you active skills like Overkill or Underdog..

Yeah ok I was kinda sure it scaled 30% bonus from the 115HP, but after that anarchist converts 50% of your health into 120% armor, and here is where I have no clue how the game cuts your health, does further reduce your 115+34.5(30%) hp to give you armor or does it add the 34.5(30%) to 230 base health and then reduce it to give you armor....or does it just take 50% from the 30% bonus HP and add to your total armor pool.
Too many options.

Dev might have a more concrete answer than mine to be honest.

[Sir Duckyweather]

On http://pd2weapons.com/ , if you select Anarchist with the Partners in Crime skill aced, then open the Armors tab, it shows you as having 184 total health (a -46 modifier). The site is generally correct so I've no reason to doubt that that's the correct health value. You got me curious how it calculates it so I've got Notepad open with various combinations of numbers and I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out this math as well. No matter how I try, I always mathfail and end up with 149.5 HP. If it makes any difference, PiC(A) changes the +138 armor bonus to +220.8, a difference of 82.8.

Wait... okay I think I might have it? I dunno, hard to wrap my brain around it. Okay, so without Anarchist, your health is 230, which goes up to 299 with the skill. That's a difference of 69 HP. If you have Anarchist without the skill, your health is 115. With the skill and Perk Deck, it's 184, and the difference between 184 and 115 is... also 69 HP. So that tells me that the +69 HP gained is based upon your base HP, ignoring the penalty from Anarchist, and then added on top of the smaller health.

(230 * 0.3) + (230 / 2) = 184 ?

As for the armor... 69 * 1.2 = 82.8

In other words, if the website is correct, you get the best of both worlds. You get the higher HP value because the boost from PiC(A) is calculated with your base HP, and you get the bonus armor value from that higher HP value. Uh, if I'm understanding that correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Krēslplēsis]

Originally posted by Sir Duckyweather:

On http://pd2weapons.com/ , if you select Anarchist with the Partners in Crime skill aced, then open the Armors tab, it shows you as having 184 total health (a -46 modifier). The site is generally correct so I've no reason to doubt that that's the correct health value. You got me curious how it calculates it so I've got Notepad open with various combinations of numbers and I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out this math as well. No matter how I try, I always mathfail and end up with 149.5 HP. If it makes any difference, PiC(A) changes the +138 armor bonus to +220.8, a difference of 82.8.

Wait... okay I think I might have it? I dunno, hard to wrap my brain around it. Okay, so without Anarchist, your health is 230, which goes up to 299 with the skill. That's a difference of 69 HP. If you have Anarchist without the skill, your health is 115. With the skill and Perk Deck, it's 184, and the difference between 184 and 115 is... also 69 HP. So that tells me that the +69 HP gained is based upon your base HP, ignoring the penalty from Anarchist, and then added on top of the smaller health.

(230 * 0.3) + (230 / 2) = 184 ?

As for the armor... 69 * 1.2 = 82.8

In other words, if the website is correct, you get the best of both worlds. You get the higher HP value because the boost from PiC(A) is calculated with your base HP, and you get the bonus armor value from that higher HP value. Uh, if I'm understanding that correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah I was calculating the same way, but I don't think partners in crime scales from the base HP, I think it scales with whats left from anarchist since you get a cop converted in game + I'm running frenzy with that build so I take 25% reduced damage or you could say that I just have 25% more armor.
I tried to make a really beefy armor tank, but to be fair from these calculations it doesn't feel like it, feels more like I get 30-40 bonus armor, but maybe thats just me.
Either way all that armor goes away relatively fast even on overkill, and I'm comparing this to how long I can stay in the fight with muscle + partners in crime no frenzy.
Muscle seemed to be tankier for whatever reason, but cannot be 100% sure since enemies don't do consistent damage.

[Unknown Knight]

Anarchist bonus works in 2 steps (assume maxed perk decks):
1) Calculate health multiplier
2) Calculate armour bonus

Calculating health multiplier
Calculation here is additive. Currently there's PiC bonus and Crew Chief bonus.
Example with all 3 effects:
1 - Anarchist (0.5) + PiC (0.3) + 1 CC Hostage (0.02) = 0.82.
Your total health will be 230 * 0.82 = 188.6

Calculating armour bonus
Continuing with the example, your bonus armour will be 188.6 * 1.2 = 226.32
Add that to your base armour to get the total.

Quirky details
Q: How does these work on the fly? Is current health and armour rescaled or do just the max health/armour change?
A: All my research was done prior to new skill trees and I know things have changed so I don't have an answer unless I do new research. But if you're not too bothered with the details, the above example should suffice.

[Seven]

Health modifiers are additive, so an anarchist with no other health modifiers would have a multiplier of 0.5 without PIC, or 0.8 with it. The base health is 230, so this translates into 115 or 184 health.

Armor is a bit more complicated because there are more factors to take into account. The calculation goes like this:
max = (base + addend) * multiplier

The anarchist deck provides an addend bonus, which is equal to the max health times 1, 1.1 or 1.2 depending on the anarchist level. To use an example, let's look at a maxed anarchist in a suit with no other skills that are relevant. The base armor is 20 and the skill multiplier is 1 in that case. The max health is 0.5 * 230, which gives an additional 0.5 * 230 * 1.2 = 138 armor. With aced PIC, the health is 0.8 * 230, and the added armor becomes 0.8 * 230 * 1.2 = 220.8. With a base armor of 20 and no skill multiplier, the armor will be 158 or 240.8.

TLDR: Assuming no other skills are present to change the results, an anarchist loses 115 health and gains 138 armor without PIC, and loses 46 health and gains 220.8 armor with it.

[Krēslplēsis]

Originally posted by YouTube: Unknown Knight:

Anarchist bonus works in 2 steps (assume maxed perk decks):
1) Calculate health multiplier
2) Calculate armour bonus

Calculating health multiplier
Calculation here is additive. Currently there's PiC bonus and Crew Chief bonus.
Example with all 3 effects:
1 - Anarchist (0.5) + PiC (0.3) + 1 CC Hostage (0.02) = 0.82.
Your total health will be 230 * 0.82 = 188.6

Calculating armour bonus
Continuing with the example, your bonus armour will be 188.6 * 1.2 = 226.32
Add that to your base armour to get the total.

Quirky details
Q: How does these work on the fly? Is current health and armour rescaled or do just the max health/armour change?
A: All my research was done prior to new skill trees and I know things have changed so I don't have an answer unless I do new research. But if you're not too bothered with the details, the above example should suffice.

Originally posted by Seven:

Health modifiers are additive, so an anarchist with no other health modifiers would have a multiplier of 0.5 without PIC, or 0.8 with it. The base health is 230, so this translates into 115 or 184 health.

Armor is a bit more complicated because there are more factors to take into account. The calculation goes like this:
max = (base + addend) * multiplier

The anarchist deck provides an addend bonus, which is equal to the max health times 1, 1.1 or 1.2 depending on the anarchist level. To use an example, let's look at a maxed anarchist in a suit with no other skills that are relevant. The base armor is 20 and the skill multiplier is 1 in that case. The max health is 0.5 * 230, which gives an additional 0.5 * 230 * 1.2 = 138 armor. With aced PIC, the health is 0.8 * 230, and the added armor becomes 0.8 * 230 * 1.2 = 220.8. With a base armor of 20 and no skill multiplier, the armor will be 158 or 240.8.

TLDR: Assuming no other skills are present to change the results, an anarchist loses 115 health and gains 138 armor without PIC, and loses 46 health and gains 220.8 armor with it.

The thing is cosidering all you both said is correct after calculating and taking the 25% reduction from frenzy as just bonus armor it would mean that in total with PiC + ICTV you get 644.02 armor which is a LOT, now if you are willing, take this build I made and try it out and tell me if it really feels like you would have 644 armor.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796739654
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796739642
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796739629
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796739612
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796739596

It is just too fun running around with 110% reload speed + LMG or w/e but damn the armor just feels like it's not there.
If you get constant HS you survive a longer time, but still as I said even on overkill the armor just goes away faster than expected

[Unknown Knight]

Originally posted by PHC$XexecristLV:

It is just too fun running around with 110% reload speed + LMG or w/e but damn the armor just feels like it's not there.
If you get constant HS you survive a longer time, but still as I said even on overkill the armor just goes away faster than expected

I saw (guess) your issue. You're doing a Enforcer (armoured killer) build using silenced weapons. You'll have to understand how threat (suppression) and silenced weapons work in loud.

Perhaps try it with an unsuppressed LMG, fit it with the heaviest threat barrel (funnel of fun I think or firebreather).

Edit: Underdog should be aced as well. That's where the additional 15% damage reduction comes from. You should try a Body Expertise build as well but that changes how shooting works generally.

I'll try to get a build for you if you're interested.

Edit 2: The fastest way to reload LMGs also would be Bloodthirst aced, it's the fastest reload skill at 50% but getting a melee kill can be dangerous on 1D.

Edit 3: http://pd2weapons.com/l/107fa643c74ab4dd8f1254d7b4ece2e0
15 points left. It's a rough build not really complete.
Body Expertise aced changes the way you spend your bullets. I can't remember using it for now but compared to a long burst of headshots, you'll only need 2 to 4 shots to the body for regular cops (depending on difficulty) so it's more of a tap fire, even with LMGs. Otherwise most of the bullets are wasted on ragdolls absorbing them.

[Krēslplēsis]

Originally posted by YouTube: Unknown Knight:

Originally posted by PHC$XexecristLV:

It is just too fun running around with 110% reload speed + LMG or w/e but damn the armor just feels like it's not there.
If you get constant HS you survive a longer time, but still as I said even on overkill the armor just goes away faster than expected

I saw (guess) your issue. You're doing a Enforcer (armoured killer) build using silenced weapons. You'll have to understand how threat (suppression) and silenced weapons work in loud.

Perhaps try it with an unsuppressed LMG, fit it with the heaviest threat barrel (funnel of fun I think or firebreather).

Edit: Underdog should be aced as well. That's where the additional 15% damage reduction comes from. You should try a Body Expertise build as well but that changes how shooting works generally.

I'll try to get a build for you if you're interested.

Edit 2: The fastest way to reload LMGs also would be Bloodthirst aced, it's the fastest reload skill at 50% but getting a melee kill can be dangerous on 1D.

Ye I do realize that supressed weapons gives you 0 threat, which means no cops taking cover, dunno why silencer are made to do that in this game, but yes, gonna try the body expertise w/o silencers and see where that goes.

[Unknown Knight]

Originally posted by PHC$XexecristLV:

Ye I do realize that supressed weapons gives you 0 threat, which means no cops taking cover, dunno why silencer are made to do that in this game, but yes, gonna try the body expertise w/o silencers and see where that goes.

Just posted a build in my previous reply. Hope things work out for you!