What do you consider as cheating? (Mods)

[hope]

Just a random question that popped up in my head, what mods do you consider cheating?(excluding the obvious; pirate perfection, dlc unlockers, etc.)

[Wandering Flare]

Davrick eredeti hozzászólása:

Martin Vol eredeti hozzászólása:

Any mods that give a substantial enough advantage.

The problem with this is that 'substantial enough' is extremely subjective. I might think some mod gives a substantial enough advantage, so for me it's a cheat, but you don't think so, so for you it isn't? I'm all for playing the game the way you want to play it, and I'm never going to tell anyone else how to have their fun, but it's either a cheat or it isn't. There shouldn't be any question about that.

Objectively, a cheat is anything that changes the rules of the game. The game only lets you carry one bag at a time, so a mod that lets you carry more than one bag at a time is a cheat. The game only lets you take out four (pagered) guards before sounding the alarm, so a mod that lets you take out more than four (pagered) guards is a cheat. A mod that tracks how many times you've been downed, or how many pagers you've used isn't a cheat, because that's info you can track for yourself and you aren't changing the game's rules. A mod that changed how many times you could go down, on the other hand, would be a cheat.

I guess it's a better way to put it than how I did.

[Zero [HU][VR]]

Jostabeere eredeti hozzászólása:

Martin Vol eredeti hozzászólása:

Any mods that give a substantial enough advantage.

Timers and such are fine. Silent Assassin or Carry Stacker? Get out.

Carry Stacker gives a substantial advantage on time. I mean. If you can't beat a heist without it, you won't beat it with it. I see carry stacker as a massive shortcut in time. It should be used when you can do a heist easily without it.

♥♥♥♥ no. There are heist where I failed when I tried to secure the Nth bag. It would have been long over with a carry stacker cheat. Almost all of the stealth maps and most of the loud maps on DSOD is significantly easier if you cheat the bags.

If I see Silent Assassin, I don't immediately leave/kick. If I see carry stacker, I do.

[Zero [HU][VR]]

Davrick eredeti hozzászólása:

Martin Vol eredeti hozzászólása:

Any mods that give a substantial enough advantage.

The problem with this is that 'substantial enough' is extremely subjective. I might think some mod gives a substantial enough advantage, so for me it's a cheat, but you don't think so, so for you it isn't? I'm all for playing the game the way you want to play it, and I'm never going to tell anyone else how to have their fun, but it's either a cheat or it isn't. There shouldn't be any question about that.

Objectively, a cheat is anything that changes the rules of the game. The game only lets you carry one bag at a time, so a mod that lets you carry more than one bag at a time is a cheat. The game only lets you take out four (pagered) guards before sounding the alarm, so a mod that lets you take out more than four (pagered) guards is a cheat. A mod that tracks how many times you've been downed, or how many pagers you've used isn't a cheat, because that's info you can track for yourself and you aren't changing the game's rules. A mod that changed how many times you could go down, on the other hand, would be a cheat.

How about contour mods? I use a handful of them. Ammo bags are blue and purple if they have Bulletstorm, FAKs are blue if they have Uppers, bags are colored from green to red by weight, civilians are yellow not red.
I mean, I'm just interested in opinions, no way I'll give them up, even if you consider them cheats.
You have HUDs to use, I don't have anything like that in VR. I don't even have the screen that can be accessed by Tab on desktop. I need the info.

[Yamaha]

Anything that breaks the vanilla flow of the game; in other words, if you're playing the game the way it wasn't meant or designed to be played.

Please refer to this thread for additional input:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/15/412448158149601507/

[Jostabeere]

Zero HUVR eredeti hozzászólása:

Jostabeere eredeti hozzászólása:

Carry Stacker gives a substantial advantage on time. I mean. If you can't beat a heist without it, you won't beat it with it. I see carry stacker as a massive shortcut in time. It should be used when you can do a heist easily without it.

♥♥♥♥ no. There are heist where I failed when I tried to secure the Nth bag. It would have been long over with a carry stacker cheat. Almost all of the stealth maps and most of the loud maps on DSOD is significantly easier if you cheat the bags.

If I see Silent Assassin, I don't immediately leave/kick. If I see carry stacker, I do.

You failed because of bad luck or because you were too bad skill-wise?
I take heists like FWB, GGC, SR, Murky, and so on as an example. All of them are "done" when you get to the loot. Securing it all is just spending time. So carry stacker is okay there?

[A Bird]

Anything that can change the experience on a server you aren't hosting like custom perk decks some revamps on the skill trees or perkdecks or even the weapons its all a grey area.

[Zero [HU][VR]]

Jostabeere eredeti hozzászólása:

Zero HUVR eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ no. There are heist where I failed when I tried to secure the Nth bag. It would have been long over with a carry stacker cheat. Almost all of the stealth maps and most of the loud maps on DSOD is significantly easier if you cheat the bags.

If I see Silent Assassin, I don't immediately leave/kick. If I see carry stacker, I do.

You failed because of bad luck or because you were too bad skill-wise?
I take heists like FWB, GGC, SR, Murky, and so on as an example. All of them are "done" when you get to the loot. Securing it all is just spending time. So carry stacker is okay there?

I failed because at bag #14 my concentration is weakening. It didn't for the previous 13 times, but then at bag #14 I got careless and a guard spotted me, or a bag. I failed only because I had to do the same trip multiple times. And that wouldn't have happened if I just stacked all the loot and secured it in one trip.

I don't like the mod as it works as a client too, so I have to trust you to not use it. And as you already went to lenghts downloading and installing it, I don't trust you.

I actually don't bother kicking, I just finish the heist and disband the lobby. One match doesn't matter either way.

SA is different, as it doesn't work as a client, doesn't matter in loud, so I can readily avoid it.

[FireDrake]

kackertyper.net maybe?

plutodod eredeti hozzászólása:

Kingman eredeti hozzászólása:

I wouldn't say hacks, but cheats, for sure. Also, not all mods are cheats. Some help you (like down counter standalones) and some are quality of life, or are just memes

yeh theyre hacks, i saw a hoodied guy downloading them once, was really suspicious and he looked like a hacker
he was also typing really fast on his keyboard it was really creepy he pointed a gun at the screen

Ok, apparently that page is partly censored, is a page where any button you press brings out half a green line of code in a black background. Use it after pressing F11 in your preferred browser for people to look at you funny.

[hope]

oh god what did this evolve into

[CA$H THE GREAT]

This is obviously a question/debate that would yield a subjective answer, however, there is a lot of grey area.

My personal definition would be anything that gives the player an overwhelming edge over the game or other players. This would absolutely include Pirate Perfection, cheat mods that give additional or ALL skill points for all skills, Carry Stacker, Silent Assassin to a degree, unlimited ammo, damage increases that are not in the game for weapons, etc.

Additionally, I DO NOT consider "quality of life" improvements such as HUDs, visual improvements, field of view modifiers, preventing crimespree loss on crash (if used properly), etc. "cheating". You have to understand Payday 2 has always been an unfinished game that was never properly polished with the improvements we would be accustomed to seeing in an A-List game title.

[Lemaouman]

Any mods that negatively affect game experience for others, like if you're 1 shotting every enemy with a minigun, insta completing objectives, cuffing everyone, etc. (I'm fine with basic voices cause if you mess around with me i'll be laughing all day)

Stuff like carry stacker and silent assassin is fine too cause it doesn't work in others lobbies and so doesn't affect them.

Any weapons and skill/perk rebalance mods that increase damage/health/skills are fine to as long as they are made with some sort of logic.

As for dlc/skin unlockers I couldn't care any less if you have 2 of the rarest legendaries you can play all day in my lobby, but if you have every skill tree maxed out and are spawning turrets and cloaker gold everywhere you're getting booted asap.

In the end I don't care about what you have/how you look like, I only care about how you interact with others and the heist.

[BlackRibbon]

Kingman eredeti hozzászólása:

oh god what did this evolve into

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytEnPSkUmVg&feature=youtu.be

[Aurola Light]

In my lobby, I do not care what mods you use. As long as it isn't Pirate Perfection (or any other program to end up crashing me), you and me are cool. Silent Assassin/Carry Stacker/etc. is accepted in my games.

I always put (Please Read My Mods) in my name if anyone willingly to play my lobby. Again, I don't care what you do.

[[PAI] Ambrose]

Fast cooking is broken for leveling. 25 bags of meth within 10 minutes is insane, but its hardly worth it unless you're playing on a higher difficulty.

Carry stacker used to be unfair, till they nerfed it. Honestly, I think it should be in the actual game. Being able to carry multiple bags at once, with an increasing speed penalty, is fair.

[BubblestationCPH]

DLC unlockers is NOT cheat. Its theft.

Cheats are things that gives you an advantage other players doesnt have acces to. If you change your goliath to do 300 basedmg thjen you cheat, but if you change all goliaths in the game then its a mod.

Grey areas imho is HUDs that collect ingame info and makes it easy accesable/useable. This can be timers that useually isnt visible, or markers that are added to indicate various effects.

I wouldnt call them cheat. You cant do anything a crafty player with timers, stopwatches and notes couldnt do, - but it has been made more practical