Tan or green/gray Jokers?

[Zero [HU][VR]]

I always get tan Jokers, but I see that most players don't care, they convert green/gray cops as well. Is there any difference? Tans have body armor, but then again, I know cops aim for the head.
Also do their helmets count? Explosions can remove Joker's helmets too. Are they more vulnerable without them, or is it just a visual effect?

[EM1]

Helmet does still count and removing them through explosions can have a slight effect but not full.

[Darth Cannabis]

I don't particularly care, but often times, I go for specific weapon on my jokers.

If I can, love to get a couple of those 1st arrivals with Bronco revolvers, usually thou, they die to overzealous crew mates. If crowded close map, I prefer converting shotguns, if more open, I prefer smg converts.

If I can get both preferred weapon, and armor that is just having a good day on jokers.

[S E X Y]

Dont care about that,just bring all the Joker skills and done

Gg

[Hatch]

It does make a difference yes. Heavy units have twice the HP of a regular swat unit. For the first joker however, I don't care, I will get a regular white shirt cop or any kind of swat unit for 30% health boost and regen. For the 2nd unit and there on after, I will go for heavy units.

For close-quaters heists like Slaughterhouse or Panic Room I will also try to get shotgunners and for large outdoor heists like Heat Steet I will go for the assault rifle units or even the Zeal Marksmen (which can be converted even though are a kind of special unit)

[Zero [HU][VR]]

Yeah, thanks, it felt like it does count, tans last a little longer.
I too like to get the Bronco girls/guys if I can, but they are really fragile even with the 99% damage reduction skills.
For some reason I don't like the shotgun they use, its fire rate is very low. Does the damage compensate for it?
Eh, doesn't matter actually, I use them for the HP regen and distraction mostly, not their damage output.

[Stealth Inc]

TL;DR: First convert whatever is convenient and ready for health regen and distraction. If you want to get the most out of them then look for tan shotgunners (Reinfields) if you can and would not waste objective time in doing so, they are fairly rare at times. Otherwise just go for another tan, or go ahead and convert that green shotgunner if you want them to get some kills and having to get more converts over time isn't a problem.

Cop AIs tend to land few, but not zero, body shots on jokers. Heavy SWAT jokers' body armor still counts against AI body shots, which will end up soaking up a decent amount of damage (yet they are still staggered from getting hit in the body). Tans also have about twice the health of the greens, or somewhere closer to 3/2 on DS. Shotgun converts seem to do far more damage than other types over their lifespan (even ZEAL marksmen) and will also stagger enemies and defend themselves better, but the number of kills they get is still somewhat negligible. Even the most generally open maps like Heat Street still see shotgunners doing better than the guys with CAR-15s/SMGs. Shotgunners also seem to be hard to find sometimes. If you're needing the health regen, first convert whatever is convenient and available. If you're playing tightly with 4 people and everyone keeps gunning down your attempted converts then you'll have to take what you can get as well. Go for tan shotgunners if you can but don't waste too much time that could've been used on map objectives.

If I were to rank them on a tier considering their capabilities...
(* means crimespree only)
Offensive (# of kills over similar periods of time): Tan shotgunner >= Gensec tan shotgunner* > Green shotgunner > ZEAL marksman* > Bronco cop > Guard with pistol > Everything else

Defensive (lifespan duration assuming they all position themselves in the same ways, as well as stagger capability): Tan shotgunner > SMG/CAR-15 tan > ZEAL marksman* > Gensec tan shotgunner* > Green shotgunner > Other green > cop/guard, any other type of enemy

Gensec tan shotgunners are the guys who replace greens once you pick their modifier on crimespree. They have the same amount of health as greens but have body armor and seemingly always use Reinfields. They're distinguishable from regular tan shotgunners by their Gensec tags and digital camo in unarmored spots.

Jokers generally don't do that much damage to enemies and they're usually far more useful as meatshields and distractions. A well positioned joker in a chokepoint will slow and distract streams of enemies while a tan shotgunner will also pick a few of them off, and jokers other than tans won't last a terribly long time doing this.

While under fire your jokers will basically be either on their ass or getting up from their ass about 2/3rds of the time, which means they won't be putting out a steady stream of fire. Relative to health amounts in increasing difficulties, the SMG/CAR-15 jokers don't do much damage to enemies at any range, but can sometimes stagger enemies in close quarters. I assume shotgunners seem to do much better than the CAR-15/SMG cops because jokers are still staggered just as easily as non-converts yet their Reinfield does an insane amount of burst DPS in comparison (and frequently floors enemies in close quarters), even though shotgun AIs only have 1 shell in their magazines and reload after every shot.


With WolfHUD you can see how many kills your jokers get (though it could have trouble tracking as it often seems unbelievably low). The shotgunners pretty much always get significantly more kills. I usually see SMG converts get around 1-4 kills in their lifespan while shotgunners will get around 11-18. In public crime spree, everyone always goes for ZEAL marksman converts, though I usually don't see those converts actually do a whole lot, lasting not quite as long as other tans (I guess because they can't stagger enemies as well when putting out fewer shots) and killcount comparable to the SMG converts with around 1-5 kills. This is strange to me knowing that bot AIs are very good with sniper-type weapons. They're probably a *lot* better if you use the better bots mod.

[Zero [HU][VR]]

Originally posted by Stealth Inc﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽:

snip

This is the most complete answer, so I'll tag it. Thanks.

Discussing it further:
I usually have time to look up and convert whatever type of enemy I want, I don't really need the HP bonus and regen right at the start, up to DW. I even have time and speed to sprint to the other side of the map and convert something in peace if my teammates keep killing my hostages before I could convert them. By the way, I deem that kickable offense. If someone shoots three of my kneeling cops when I'm RIGHT THERE shouting at them, I kick the half-blind idiot. When I accidentally do the same, I apologize, and go out of my way to get another one for the other player.

Converting an enemy takes only a few seconds, so it doesn't take away much time from objectives. Weapon butt, shout shout shout, convert. Five seconds at most.

DS is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and a blue cop lasts a few seconds, AND the Bronco guys are seriously dangerous to convert, so I usually hide in a corner and convert the first heavy cop that comes my way. I don't go out and convert blues.

What you say about shotgunners is interesting. I was really put off by their one shot per reload fire rate, but now I'll go for them and try them out.

Wolfhud is out of the question, I play in VR and only in VR. I still have two or three achievements that's impossible or extremely hard in VR compared to desktop, but that's the extent I'll play this game on desktop. Thanks for providing me all this info, as I really didn't want to research it on my own.