Why so many people think Rngmodifier is a cheat ?

[-ØR- Sublimacy]

Really, i don't understand why, it's not a cheat, it doesn't change the game, it doesn't work as a client and even speedrunners use a modified version of it officially.

So why ? I think it's a pretty useful mod if you want to try some challenges without having to restart 50 times.
I'm open for people who want to change my mind about it.

[marijn211]

Because the game can be significantly more easy with the most lucky RNG

[-ØR- Sublimacy]

Originally posted by marijn211:

Because the game can be significantly more easy with the most lucky RNG

So if it's easier it's cheat ? That doesn't work, i can have the same result by restarting, i am cheating if i restart my heist for perfect rng then ? No.
It doesn't change the game the way carry stacker and silent assassin do for example.
It doesn't change the way i will play if i had the rng by restarting, but it is possible to do it more often, that's why it's accepted for speedrunners, are they all cheaters then ?

[Don]

because it's a cheat

[Aurola Light]

Originally posted by Sublimacy:

Originally posted by marijn211:

Because the game can be significantly more easy with the most lucky RNG

So if it's easier it's cheat ? That doesn't work, i can have the same result by restarting, i am cheating if i restart my heist for perfect rng then ? No.
It doesn't change the game the way carry stacker and silent assassin do for example.
It doesn't change the way i will play if i had the rng by restarting, but it is possible to do it more often, that's why it's accepted for speedrunners, are they all cheaters then ?

^ 👍

[Seal]

Here's an example:
Player 1: I want to speedrun all heists offered by *insert contractor here*.
Player 2: Alright.
Player 1: I'm gonna use RNG Modifier.
Player 2: Not alright. You're (probably) giving yourself the best possible RNG for those heists, thus making it slightly quicker.

[Thermal Lance]

If you used a device on a slot machine that would give you the 777 everytime. Would it be cheating?

[Captain Toof]

Pin lance's latest, that's perfectly pointing what's important with this mod.

[Jostabeere]

Originally posted by Sublimacy:

Originally posted by marijn211:

Because the game can be significantly more easy with the most lucky RNG

So if it's easier it's cheat ? That doesn't work, i can have the same result by restarting, i am cheating if i restart my heist for perfect rng then ? No.
It doesn't change the game the way carry stacker and silent assassin do for example.
It doesn't change the way i will play if i had the rng by restarting, but it is possible to do it more often, that's why it's accepted for speedrunners, are they all cheaters then ?

"I can earn my OD mask by playing the heist by myself and actually playing them or I can use a godmode. It is just easier, I will get them eventually anyway so I can cheat"

[Yamaha]

Originally posted by Sublimacy:

that's why it's accepted for speedrunners, are they all cheaters then ?

Maybe? Technically? Yes. Even something as simple as reloading a save in a singleplayer game can be considered a cheat, but the majority is doing it and has been doing it for god knows how long. But that's a different topic altogether. The rules of Speedrunning were agreed upon by the Speedrunning community, and those rules generally stay within that bubble.

Originally posted by Sublimacy:

Why so many people think Rngmodifier is a cheat ?

I think the first question should be "Who are these people", the "why" comes later.
Imo, as much as i hate to admit, but there's a particular group of players (call them elitists, tryhards, vets or whatnot) who grinded their ass off by playing the game the only way they knew how, back when modding was either nonexistent or at the infancy stage. Ultimately, those people "dictate" what is and what isn't a cheat, and i completely understand that mentality.
There are other factors to consider, like common sense and developer involvement. Restarting wasn't always present, it's something they added much, much later. Notice how it's just a simple restart? It doesn't guarantee a perfect rng from the get-go, because rng is a fundamental part of Payday 2, it was designed to be played this way -- by playing the hand you were dealt and overcoming the odds, and it just so happens a large chunk of the community agrees with said approach. Sure, not everyone is capable of that, not everyone finds enjoyment in that, and that's fair; heck, i lost count on how many times i restarted bank heist when things weren't going my way, but my punishment was starting over. To some its fun, to some its not, hence why they either want to skip TO the fun, or satisfy their inner-completionist in the most efficient way possible and move on to some other game. Perhaps both.

Originally posted by Sublimacy:

So why ? I think it's a pretty useful mod if you want to try some challenges without having to restart 50 times.

Oh but it wouldn't be used for just useful purposes. Especially if there's no downside or visible attempt at making sure the mod is balanced in some way.

Originally posted by Sublimacy:

I'm open for people who want to change my mind about it.

I think you just have to remain open-minded on the subject, that's all.

Gonna link this as a tl;dr:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/15/412448158149601507/

[Unknown Knight]

RNGModifier can do more than what your example lists (to keep restarting).

GO bank would be a good example. If one sucks at stealth so much, they could abuse it to spawn the 1% chance of open vault and ECM rush it.

Same goes for White Xmas, to always get the helicopter location closest to the lumber yard.

Or Rats Day 3, to have 0% chance of spawning C4. Something similar as well for Blood Diamond.

Of course the options on RNGModifier isn't that easy to use so it may not achieve these examples perfectly but that's my line of thought. I'm not sure if RNGModifier disables achievements as well.

[Jostabeere]

Originally posted by Yamaha:

snip

Overkill sees Carrystacker as a cheat. RNGmodifier does the same thing. It makes heists easier and saves time. It is a pure cheat per Overkills definition.

[Thermal Lance]

Originally posted by Captain Toof:

Pin lance's latest, that's perfectly pointing what's important with this mod.

Well, I mean. In the case of speedrunning, luck manipulation is a common thing where RNG is so prevalent that it makes competition troublesome. In some games it is an okay thing to do with speedrunning. But, there is a gap that needs to be acknowledged between speedrunning and normal play. Speedrunners don't play to win, they play to get the best time and when such tools are used, it is mentionned in the game's specific speedrun ruleset. When it comes to normal play, it is absolutely 100% cheating. There is no way around that.

Thanks for the thumb up. :)

[AoFA | FightDrug *-* [GER]]

Originally posted by marijn211:

Because the game can be significantly more easy with the most lucky RNG

how he allready sayed it make the game easyer and thats cheating in my eyes when you install mods no wait i dont wanna insult mods lets call it cheats what makes the game easyer then thats cheating because thats what a cheat is making stuff easyer so... when you dont need to do stuff to open the vault then you cheating

before you say now : and when its normaly by this heist ? then i say overkill ( the game maker ) want it that way its the normal stuff then that its open then it isnt cheating because it is vanillia in the game

and to the good end here a example : lets say... we need to rob the bank but bain sayed something like there is someone in you are lucky the stuff is open then this is normal because the game maker want it that way ( normal game ) so and when a moder now say lets make it easyer then thats cheating because you just make it easyer


here some great swat voices : by the next assult watch me i take one of them down for sure ( 5 minutes later ) THIS IS A COLOSAL GOAT FU-CK

[S E X Y]

Rly? Are there ppl Who think this is not cheating? Jesús christ....

It does make your Game easier and It clearly gives you advantage

Explain me one thing,why you need this mod,seriously

Originally posted by Jostabeere:

Originally posted by Yamaha:

snip

Overkill sees Carrystacker as a cheat. RNGmodifier does the same thing. It makes heists easier and saves time. It is a pure cheat per Overkills definition.

And then why overkill didnt delete the mod and also this one... Another proof of their incompetence,It doesnt even appear the cheater tag on the player Who is using It in game

And well also a proof that shows that report mod function in mod sites doesnt work v:

[Copy & Cat]

Originally posted by S E X Y:

Rly? Are there ppl Who think this is not cheating? Jesús christ....

It does make your Game easier and It clearly gives you advantage

Explain me one thing,why you need this mod,seriously

Originally posted by Jostabeere:

Overkill sees Carrystacker as a cheat. RNGmodifier does the same thing. It makes heists easier and saves time. It is a pure cheat per Overkills definition.

And then why overkill didnt delete the mod and also this one... Another proof of their incompetence,It doesnt even appear the cheater tag on the player Who is using It in game

And well also a proof that shows that report mod function in mod sites doesnt work v:

We don't control what mods people make or what other sites post