Scarface Mansion stealth is a missed opportunity.

[Anticitizen 1]

On my time off I ran the Scarface Mansion heist a few times in loud and stealth and it was quite underwhelming. As a loud heist it is just merely uninspired but in stealth it is a great disappointment.

It seems to me that this Overkill wants to encourage coop stealth with this heist. From my experience with it, it goes far smoother if all outside guards are eliminated. That means body bag cases and a few of them at that. While you may be able to shotgun launch a few guards into the sea and kill some in the starting area without bagging, you will still need more body bags. Encouraging coop might seem like a worthy goal at first glance but given the desynk in this game, it is a very poorly thought out design choice. I often play with a friend of mine who actually lives in the same city as me and we still have a big desynk problem. I believe that all stealth heists should be doable solo in a reasonable timeframe, this just isn't the case in Scarface Mansion unless RNG loves you.

Another area of concern is the amount of indoor guards in this heist, did someone actually think this was a good idea to have this many guards? It is almost comical how many guards there are inside the mansion, you pretty well have to ensure that you don't take any out because another will walk in on you while you are answering the pager.

Assets and lack of preplanning is another area where this heist disappoints. Why is it that a single heist DLC doesn't have pre-planning? Why can I not buy ziplines to get the bags from the balcony to the van or at least closer to the escape if I get the boat?

Another thing I want to mention is the "What? You Want Me to Dance?" achievement. That thing was toxic to do and it took a full crew of seasoned players a few attempts to complete and a cheezy ECM rush tactic to clear the outside guards. Yes, I am aware of the "RNG loves me" runs where a solo player sprints through the entire heist, they rely on a "I should buy a lotto ticket after this" level of luck and are in no way representative of the heist you will get 99% of the time. Also, please don't make Mayhem the new "Do stuff" difficulty until the moment where it actually resembles a midpoint between Overkill and Deathwish like it was meant to be.

[Finale]

I've not had the problems you report. Frankly in a lot of ways I think it's the best stealth heist yet!

[Zdann]

The 13 minute achievement isn't bad once you're familiar with the map. My crew got it accidentally.

Also I'm pretty sure Overkill isn't doing preplanning for new heists anymore since most people choose the same thing every time.

[Rex]

So in short: Desync, Cramped/Excessive guard counts and RnG making the heist easy to really hard is terrible.

All obvious points that I hope the devs keep in mind to change for future heists.

[Anticitizen 1]

Originally posted by Zdann:

The 13 minute achievement isn't bad once you're familiar with the map. My crew got it accidentally.

It is far too RNG dependent, that makes it bad.

Originally posted by Zdann:

Also I'm pretty sure Overkill isn't doing preplanning for new heists anymore since most people choose the same thing every time.

That's a very poor reason for taking away choice. I have used multiple variations of assets in preplanning on Shadow Raid to make the heist feel fresh after completing it over a hundred times. The cynic in me would argue that lack of implementation of preplanning in new heists is purely down to the fact that implementing it takes effort.

[Rex]

Originally posted by Anticitizen1:

Originally posted by Zdann:

Also I'm pretty sure Overkill isn't doing preplanning for new heists anymore since most people choose the same thing every time.

That's a very poor reason for taking away choice. I have used multiple variations of assets in preplanning on Shadow Raid to make the heist feel fresh after completing it over a hundred times. The cynic in me would argue that lack of implementation of preplanning in new heists is purely down to the fact that implementing it takes effort.

I think it was also because in loud and failing a lot required you to choose all the same assets you wanted again

[Zdann]

Originally posted by Anticitizen1:

That's a very poor reason for taking away choice. I have used multiple variations of assets in preplanning on Shadow Raid to make the heist feel fresh after completing it over a hundred times. The cynic in me would argue that lack of implementation of preplanning in new heists is purely down to the fact that implementing it takes effort.

I don't agree with the reasoning either, but I know it to be true.

[Anticitizen 1]

Originally posted by Rex:

Originally posted by Anticitizen1:

That's a very poor reason for taking away choice. I have used multiple variations of assets in preplanning on Shadow Raid to make the heist feel fresh after completing it over a hundred times. The cynic in me would argue that lack of implementation of preplanning in new heists is purely down to the fact that implementing it takes effort.

I think it was also because in loud and failing a lot required you to choose all the same assets you wanted again

So why not introduce "Template Pre-plan" or "Purchase last Pre-plan assets" feature? If someone desires they can purchase all the assets they have selected before with a single click. Lack of implementation of pre-planning in new heists seems to me to be a cop-out rather than a fix.

[Salem]

You do not need to bags guards outside, just kill them all if needed.
Reinforcements don't come soon enough if you are fast.

The only annoying part in the 13 minutes achievement is the stealth requirement, otherwise you can ECM rush the inside.

I completed the heist in 3:53 on Normal with really great but not perfect RNG.
Didn't try speedrunning DW/OD a lot because it is frustrating and infuriating (not because of cams or amount of guards, but because of their sheer health pool and the fact that they randomly shoot in the air even while dying), but I still got a 6:36 run with terrible RNG (bad boxes, bad computer, bad yayo, van at spawn...) and execution, especially considering I had to kill Ernesto Sosa with my saw because he was too tanky and survived to 5 Judge headshots to the point that I had no more ammo left.
Both runs were solo of course.

[Max]

It won't work because... you know what I'm going to say - no heist simulation

[Anticitizen 1]

Originally posted by Max:

It won't work because... you know what I'm going to say - no heist simulation

Please explain.

[Max]

Originally posted by Anticitizen1:

Originally posted by Max:

It won't work because... you know what I'm going to say - no heist simulation

Please explain.

Dynamic RNG stuff that affect the gameplay so it make every time you play the same heist feels like a different heist. Just like the different layout of bank heist, armored transport, GO Bank and Big Bank.

[Anticitizen 1]

Originally posted by Max:

Originally posted by Anticitizen1:

Please explain.

Dynamic RNG stuff that affect the gameplay so it make every time you play the same heist feels like a different heist. Just like the different layout of bank heist, armored transport, GO Bank and Big Bank.

Unless I am missing something, the Pre-plan options are always the same, regardless of heist layout so the "Heist Template" feature is still possible even if the heist layout is dynamic.