Crits vs Body expertise

[Fuzion Primestep]

Which is better, body expertise aced will deal 100% of the headshot multiplier to the enemy when hit or crits? The exact mechanics of how critical hits works is something I don't know. Please have your say down below and be respectful.

[pho_kko]

It really depends on your build. Body Expertise can be used with both armor and dodge, but crits only work with low DR.

[E3kHatena]

If you can get all of your equipment and be below 25 concealment, then its probably worth it more to invest in aced Low Blow. If not, then shoot for Body Expertise.

[Sir Duckyweather]

It's my understanding that critical hits also deal 100% of the headshot damage. However, critical headshots stack the damage and are quite deadly, which is something you cannot do with Body Expertise. But, as the Egg has explained, you're typically restricted to lighter armors and sometimes gimped weaponry for crits, while you can be tanky and use unrestricted weapon modifications with Body Expertise.

[Fuzion Primestep]

Originally posted by Sir Duckyweather:

It's my understanding that critical hits also deal 100% of the headshot damage. However, critical headshots stack the damage and are quite deadly, which is something you cannot do with Body Expertise. But, as the Egg has explained, you're typically restricted to lighter armors and sometimes gimped weaponry for crits, while you can be tanky and use unrestricted weapon modifications with Body Expertise.

Ok, my build utilizes a minigun and ictv tank build with the armorer perk deck. I just want to find a way how to increase the damage output on my minigun for higher difficulties like dw or 1d. I generally try to use as much cover as possible for my playstyle on these difficulties. What would be the best reccomended skills to achieve a higher damage output?

[Zdann]

As far as I know, the Body Expertise calculation isn't correct. On enemies with a headshot multiplier of 2 it works fine (though Basic is actually 60%, not 33%).
Anything above 2 (aka every enemy on Very Hard and above) and it doesn't work properly.

Originally posted by Sir Duckyweather:

It's my understanding that critical hits also deal 100% of the headshot damage.

You also get 5x damage against Dozers and 4x damage against Swat Turrets, and Body Expertise doesn't work on either.

[Sir Duckyweather]

Originally posted by Ratchet and Clankstep:

I just want to find a way how to increase the damage output on my minigun

Unfortunately, I think there's only a couple of skills that can help. Body Expertise should work (I think so anyway, never noticed until now that the descrption includes Special Weapons) and be useful, especially with how inaccurate the weapon can be sometimes. The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is if you're willing to take the penalties associated with Berserker. Or, well, I think you can also utilize Overkill if you have a secondary shotgun? That could be a safer option. Sounds like fun actually, although it could be a heavy skill point sink either way you go.

[D.e.v.i.OS]

Originally posted by Ratchet and Clankstep:

Which is better, body expertise aced will deal 100% of the headshot multiplier to the enemy when hit or crits? The exact mechanics of how critical hits works is something I don't know. Please have your say down below and be respectful.

try this build out for a decent body expertise build.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=779423989

[Fuzion Primestep]

So end of the day, I guess I'll have to experiment with the minigun modifications and skills to get the right setup. Too bad the calculation for body expertise is kind of broken as of now :P. Anyways, one more question: How would unseen strike fair inplace of body expertise (assuming I already have berserker)

[Zdann]

Originally posted by Ratchet and Clankstep:

Anyways, one more question: How would unseen strike fair inplace of body expertise (assuming I already have berserker)

If you're gonna be gunning down things with the Minigun, I doubt you'll be able to take advantage of the crits for very long before somebody shoots you.

[Fuzion Primestep]

Originally posted by Zdann:

Originally posted by Ratchet and Clankstep:

Anyways, one more question: How would unseen strike fair inplace of body expertise (assuming I already have berserker)

If you're gonna be gunning down things with the Minigun, I doubt you'll be able to take advantage of the crits for very long before somebody shoots you.

You have a point there. I was recently testing the minigun using only a berserker-frenzy tank build and I did get shot quite a few times. Guess I'll just stick with overkill.

[Huntah]

Just to let you, to get the crit. damage, all you have to do is take the headshot multiplier and apply it twice.
Here's a little something from the PD2 wiki off of the Low Blow page:
"If the player scores a critical hit on a shot that would otherwise be a headshot, the headshot damage multiplier is applied twice. For Bulldozers, a special multiplier of 11.5 is used instead of the standard headshot multiplier."
Even though the wiki is kind of outdated, it still applies.

[Zdann]

Originally posted by Huntah:

Just to let you, to get the crit. damage, all you have to do is take the headshot multiplier and apply it twice.
Here's a little something from the PD2 wiki off of the Low Blow page:
"If the player scores a critical hit on a shot that would otherwise be a headshot, the headshot damage multiplier is applied twice. For Bulldozers, a special multiplier of 11.5 is used instead of the standard headshot multiplier."
Even though the wiki is kind of outdated, it still applies.

Originally posted by The Long Guide:

Against Bulldozers, the damage dealt is multiplied by 5. Against the SWAT turret, the damage is multiplied by 4. Otherwise, the damage dealt is multiplied by the headshot damage multiplier (perk deck bonus not included).

[Huntah]

Originally posted by The Long Guide:

Against Bulldozers, the damage dealt is multiplied by 5. Against the SWAT turret, the damage is multiplied by 4. Otherwise, the damage dealt is multiplied by the headshot damage multiplier (perk deck bonus not included).

I was kind of right.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Ratchet and Clankstep:

So end of the day, I guess I'll have to experiment with the minigun modifications and skills to get the right setup. Too bad the calculation for body expertise is kind of broken as of now :P. Anyways, one more question: How would unseen strike fair inplace of body expertise (assuming I already have berserker)

It's possible to build for Low Blow (aced) crits *and* Body Expertise for high theoretical DPS, and to also toss in Shock and Awe aced to deal with shields, but

1) that eats a lot of skill points,
2) basically constrains you to use a suit and high-concealment pistol, and
3) also results in the minigun having extra-low accuracy making it pretty poor at hitting anything outside point-blank, which also means poor ammo sustainability

so I can't really recommend it unless you really want the novelty.

[Fuzion Primestep]

Well, I found a way to get decent accuracy with the minigun if you have fire control basic and you have stableshot aced if you don't move and hipfire. It's possible to obtain a max of 60 accuracy a the cost of 24 stab. So I'll probably remove body expertise from my setups for now.