Scarface Mansion Stealth has yet to be rebalenced...

[Arikado_Xodan]

Anyone remember when Car Shop first came out during the Spring Break Event? If you do, you'll probably remember some of the Death Wish changes that the map had prior to some rebalences.

- A stationary guard was ALWAYS standing in front of the managers office, forcing you to kill them to get to the door.

- The escape timer was shorter, giving less leeway for players upon reaching the driving segment.

These two Death Wish changes made Car Shop one of the most frustrating heists to attempt at its time. They have since been removed in later Updates, making Car Shop a much more enjoyable stealth heist.

So how come we haven't seen any rebalences for Scarface Mansion?

I believe most people can agree that Scarface Mansion is currently the worst stealth heist in PAYDAY 2.

- Alerted Cartel guards have increased health numbers on One Down, so chances are if they detect you their gonna get a shot off before you can kill them. Even though in recent Updates the health of security guards in One Down stealth has been reduced, but not reduced for Sosa Security.

- Cartel guards -- at least the exterior ones -- cannot be intimidated, so upon detection killing them is mandatory. And while this has been the case for all non-cop guards in PAYDAY 2, its just a reminder that you will have only one option to deal with an alerted Sosa, and its also the most risky option.

- The sheer amount of pagerless guards outside makes it extremely frustrating to try and sneak around all of them. Yet you can't adopt a scorched earth mentality because of all the cameras that randomly spawn outside as well. (You can use ECM's jammers to circumvent this issue, but I find the ECM rush tactic to have mixed results. Because of the above-mentioned One Down Hp)

- Sending extra guards... You know... Cause you didn't have ENOUGH stuff to worry about...

- The maps folliage makes it hard to see guards behind it, but it doesn't work the other way around.

- The interiors guard count and severe lack of hiding spaces makes it frustrating to try and sneak around the interior.

- Bag moving... Oh, so you DIDN'T use scorched earth tactics and there are still exterior guards walking around outside? Well you're SoL man.

Despite all the negative attention Scarface Mansion's stealth has gotten -- in Steam reviews, forum complaints, suggestions/ feedback posts -- there has not been a single change in an attempt to make the stealth more bearable.

This only hurts more when you realize that Car Shop was a free heist -- as part of the Spring Break Event --, and it got a rebalence. Yet Scarface Mansion was a $6.99 DLC that was sold alongside a $4.99 Character Pack, and yet it hasn't been made more bearable.

[CajunDeauxBoy]

It would be nice if they revisit this soon. I do like the map layout & concept but the problems you've mentioned are spot on. The foliage is a tricky beast ... If they adjust it too much towards the players advantage, it would be abused badly IMO. All you'd have to do is shoot the guards bodies into the foliage areas & no bag needed. I wouldn't suggest trying it now though ... They WILL see them.

[Patched]

The only reason the Sosa Cartel is made of sponge is because they haven't nerfed gangster health. Every gangster has high amounts of health, it isn't exclusive to this heist.

[Zdann]

Originally posted by Arikado_Xodan:

- Alerted Cartel guards have increased health numbers on One Down, so chances are if they detect you their gonna get a shot off before you can kill them. Even though in recent Updates the health of security guards in One Down stealth has been reduced, but not reduced for Sosa Security.

That's a side effect of the gangster health in general being ridiculous. It's not exactly fun fighting them in loud either.
The only real solution for now is to bring a silent Judge or some other high damage weapon.
Also to note, One Down isn't what they balance the game around, since it's supposed to be some "crazy difficulty for crazy people".

- The sheer amount of pagerless guards outside makes it extremely frustrating to try and sneak around all of them. Yet you can't adopt a scorched earth mentality because of all the cameras that randomly spawn outside as well. (You can use ECM's jammers to circumvent this issue, but I find the ECM rush tactic to have mixed results. Because of the above-mentioned One Down Hp)

They're pagerless for a reason, they expect you to kill most of them off so that it's easier to sneak around the remaining ones. You don't have to force yourself to sneak around everybody outside (because you really can't).

You can also just wait for them to walk out of the camera view before shooting them, though the cameras on that heist seem to have a bit of a wonky detection range.

- Sending extra guards... You know... Cause you didn't have ENOUGH stuff to worry about...

That was removed a while ago.


I do agree with your other points though (even if I think that Framing Frame day 3 is the worst stealth heist).

[BubblestationCPH]

I only have a real problem with the lower floor inside. 4+1 and possibly some peeping down from above, not to mention the outside guards that can look in or catch u as you try to hide from an inside guard and a forced tour around the entire house to find the phone. wiped too many times on that part to enjoy the heist
I wouldnt mind if one was removed, or made stationary. Perhaps add some probs, a flowerpot here and there in the inside hallways/room, just to buy 2-3 more secs when a guard comes around the corner

I like the outside part.. a lot tbh. the massive amount of pagerless guards with long routes makes it a very enjoyable checkers kinda game imo. I havnt had any issues with the foliage tbh. The places that are unsafe is pretty obvious imho
I like the HP on OD guards.. to me it feels like a natural increase in difficulty, simply cus you kinda have to do controlled kills only.
I love the added sprinting guards. they seems to settle in certain areas and dies the same as the first set of guards, it only takes a little more finesse.
The bagmoving CAN be a real pain, depending on dropoff.. beside being caught during search for phone, the baghauling is the singlemost dangerous bit on the map imo, yet i dont think anything should be changed. Its possible to get inside with very few kills outside. when the inside part is done you kill the ones you need to kill enroute to van, and the extra guards that will come if you kill too many wont arrive till ure done moving bags.

Buttomline. yea the map can do with a tiny touch of tweaking. not too much, just a few more routes around the map, like ledges to jump.. a flowerpot here and there. and then the lowerfloor inside.. god i hate that part. do w/e.. anything will help

edit ;

Originally posted by Zdann:

That was removed a while ago.

what?? no more stormtroopers?