Alesso Heist: Good and Bad

[Forest]

I've been excited for this heist for a quite a while because the premise seemed interesting and while I am very much satisfied with the mission itself, I have several gripes with the DLC itself.

Let me just start off with the bad. First off, the price versus the content. The heist costs 6.99 USD, roughly 7.00 USD w/ tax. The price is a bit steep at first glance, but it's nothing unusual since Overkill does this anyway. My issue, however, is the price is so steep despite such a glaring lack of content.

What do you get out of this pack? Well you get the entree (the heist itself, roughly 30 minutes and can be stealth or loud with a decent money and XP payout as well), four new melee weapons, four masks, and a pistol. The melee weapons are... rather bad. Their concealment factor is mediocre when you take the damage and knock-down into consideration, so really it's more along the lines of the money bundle than anything else. The money bundle, however, was a free thing. Even then it can actually be useful sometimes. The new melee weapons, are very weak and barely worth using, even at lower levels. Melee weapons in Payday aren't that big a deal anyway, I know, but they are still incredibly useful most of the time and can actually be vital in certain situations.

Next up is the pistol, the Matever .357. The damage is nothing to write home about and if you want a decent revolver you could just go with the Peacemaker or Bronco and have an easier time there. The Matever also has a rather high reload time (3.6 seconds) along with very limited mods you can put onto the weapon. Three types of barrels with a gadget and a single grip. You can't silence it either. Don't get me wrong, the Matever is fairly neat and has a good design, but it certainly feels like it shouldn't have been the only gun included in the pack. Big Bank had the Falcon, which was a good weapon. Hotline Miami actually included several new melee weapons of varying degrees of use, but none were specifically "bad" or totally useless (even though some should have just been in the base game anyway). In both of those packs, you were given things that could be useful and could easily ♥♥♥♥ up your enemies.

The masks are cool. Two "face" masks that are kinda like the Mannequin masks if they were painted blue, a mask that looks like some kind of cyborg boom-box head (a lot cooler than it sounds, trust me), and a face with headphones that has a pretty good color scheme to it. Overall, I don't have much else to say about them.

Now the heist. The Alesso heist is basically you and your friends raiding a concert in progress by the artist Alesso. Going in loud or stealth yields the same objectives, but with slight variations. The basic objectives are collecting C4, placing the C4 below the vault in the stadium you're in, running up to the tech booth to do the pyrotechnics for the show, letting the C4 blow up alongside the fireworks to keep the concert goers oblivious to the heist, and then running back down to the vault and collecting the loot. The heist is very entertaining and provides a good experience no matter which way you wanna go. It's certainly on par with Hotline Miami and Big Bank in terms of replayability since there's a lot you can do. Plus the forklift makes a return. However, the heist itself is the only redeeming quality of the DLC, so you're paying almost seven dollars for some masks and a mission.

The DLC itself is rather overpriced. It just isn't worth the money to get it unless it were on sale. I know this is basically the case with every heist that you can buy, but it is still upsetting that Overkill would do this. I'm satisfied with the heist itself, but I'm not satisfied with the rest of the pack.

If the Overkill staff are reading this, I would urge you to please consider the idea of improving the content quantity AND quality of your more expensive DLC. Six dollars for a single character and a weapon or two is ridiculous. Seven dollars for a single mission and a weapon or two is just insane. I know you guys need to make money, but putting such outrageous price tags on your extra content is only going to degrade your reputation and then your sales as a result.

And now we wait for people to start calling me a little ♥♥♥♥♥ for disagreeing with their opinions.

[FloatingToadThing]

The Matever pistol is severely underrated, it's an amazing pistol. Sure it can't use scopes like the Bronco or Judge but honestly, ♥♥♥♥ scopes, they only make aiming harder on the revolvers. The ability to equip gadgets and the amazing hip fire accuracy lets me clear groups of enemies in record time, without a reload as lengthy as the peacemaker's.

[Malidictus]

Origineel geplaatst door Bindal:

Bain straight up says so: C4 is behind those doors. And he also says you need to hack the computer to open them if you trigger the alarm.
Simply but, you're annoyed that you didn't listen to Bain.

He didn't say that to me, however. When I finished hacking the computer, my objective changed to "Find the C4" and Bain proceeded to call out snipers and nothing else. At one point he did mention that "This is one of the closets!" he said this before the closets were openable and I couldn't figure out what he was talking about. He never said anything about C4 because I broke stealth immediately upon starting the heist - I wanted to start with a loud run so I could explore the map unimpeded.

I hacked the PC and left it alone to explore since I was running on Normal, and just ran around the map trying to put together a mental picture. By the time the computer was hacked, Bain's heist-specific lines had expired and he wouldn't explain what C4 he's talking about, or where to find it. I vaguely remembered maybe reading that in the mission briefing, but I had no idea where to look.

Even having listened to Bain, he talks about finding the C4 in "closets." Maybe English is failing me, but I hadn't the slightest idea where to look for "closets" at all. At no point did it occur to me that magnetic-lock security doors may be guarding frikkin' janitor closets, nor did it occur to me to try opening the green doors which were not interactive when I'd tried to open them before.

[Alkoyan]

Can somebody tell Almir or anyone to remake the Alesso Heist with audible music actually. Payday 2 is all about the soundtrack.

[Bindal]

Origineel geplaatst door Malidictus:

Origineel geplaatst door Bindal:

Bain straight up says so: C4 is behind those doors. And he also says you need to hack the computer to open them if you trigger the alarm.
Simply but, you're annoyed that you didn't listen to Bain.

He didn't say that to me, however. When I finished hacking the computer, my objective changed to "Find the C4" and Bain proceeded to call out snipers and nothing else. At one point he did mention that "This is one of the closets!" he said this before the closets were openable and I couldn't figure out what he was talking about. He never said anything about C4 because I broke stealth immediately upon starting the heist - I wanted to start with a loud run so I could explore the map unimpeded

Which is your fault because if you go in during stealth (as exploring in casing mode is a GOOD idea you should always do), then Bain tells you.
So, we're just going back to the same issue of you blaming Overkill on your faults.

Origineel geplaatst door Malidictus:

Even having listened to Bain, he talks about finding the C4 in "closets." Maybe English is failing me, but I hadn't the slightest idea where to look for "closets" at all. At no point did it occur to me that magnetic-lock security doors may be guarding frikkin' janitor closets, nor did it occur to me to try opening the green doors which were not interactive when I'd tried to open them before.

A closet is a small storage room in the wall. And when there are about fifteen of them in the back of various stores, then it should be obvious that those things are closets.

[MOON_HALO]

Origineel geplaatst door TIzuna:

I wonder how less bs it would be if we had to get Thermite,instead of C4?


Anyway,when exactly does the Infinite Wave start? During my first run,i was able to trade out 2 Non-Infamies after 1 lootbag is secured,that way i finally had help on the boring Bag-on-Bag action.Does it start when the escape triggers?

But if it was C4, we wouldn't have the OTHER BS time-waster objective, and that being the amazing pyro show! You know what they say, can't alert the civilians! Even if thermite would't alert them in the first place... Even in stealth... Guys...

Also, I might have some issues if I knew that some really hot ♥♥♥♥ was dripping onto my head as I was shooting cops everywhere. Just sayin'.

Oh, and if I knew when the infinite wave started, I might not have as big an issue with it as I do, because I know "Okay, we can't ♥♥♥♥ this up starting NOW!" The current way it is, it leaves doubt as to whether or not it's begun until it's too late. However, from experience I've noticed it lasts pretty much until the escape comes. I think Bile might say something like "Okay, they've got the streets locked down!" or something, but that doesn't necessarily mean "INFINITY WAVE ERMAGERSH GET HERE ASAP."

[BlaseLattice549]

I agree with the melee weapons they need to be buffed but I believe the rest of the content is fine.

[Malidictus]

Origineel geplaatst door Bindal:

Which is your fault because if you go in during stealth (as exploring in casing mode is a GOOD idea you should always do), then Bain tells you.
So, we're just going back to the same issue of you blaming Overkill on your faults.

Is there a reason why he can't mention what I'm supposed to do during a Loud heist, though? He can remind me to get the drill 15 times but he can't even so much as mention C4 when the hack finishes? I'm not "blaming" Overkill and you don't need to defend them. I'm saying that it would be nice to have an extra voice line or two reminding players what they're looking for in those rare instances where a waypoint isn't leading us by the nose.

Origineel geplaatst door Malidictus:

A closet is a small storage room in the wall. And when there are about fifteen of them in the back of various stores, then it should be obvious that those things are closets.

Those don't look like small storage rooms, however. They look like security doors. Since they're non-interactive initially, I had no reason to suspect they led anywhere - I thought they were just props. The Alesso heist is full of non-interactive window dressing doors which players can't work, as well as multiple paths that end in invisible walls where cops come out of.

The first non-interactive door I found was down in the basement garage - it's a door that leads nowhere and never opens, not even for cops. Then I found the two little niches near the secondary staircase leading to the bar which lead to invisible walls. Then I found the staircase leading up from the top floor which ends in a non-interactive double door. There are multiple others like them that I tried to open and eventually started running past.

So when I found the green doors and realised they, too, are non-interactive, I assumed they were just window dressing, as well. Bain never told me what I was looking for, so all I had to go by was "Find C4." I know you'll just tell me that everything wrong is "my fault," but can you deny that having an extra voice line or two is such a bad thing? Or do you have such a low opinion of me that you're suggesting I'm the only person who'd have that problem?

[Malidictus]

Origineel geplaatst door Percival_Prime:

Oh, and if I knew when the infinite wave started, I might not have as big an issue with it as I do, because I know "Okay, we can't ♥♥♥♥ this up starting NOW!" The current way it is, it leaves doubt as to whether or not it's begun until it's too late. However, from experience I've noticed it lasts pretty much until the escape comes. I think Bile might say something like "Okay, they've got the streets locked down!" or something, but that doesn't necessarily mean "INFINITY WAVE ERMAGERSH GET HERE ASAP."

Well, I know we saw a break in the police wave after we moved the money bags up to the lobby - my team-mate insisted we wait for a break in the waves before we used the zipline. One showed up. It's possible it starts when you toss bags into Bile's container, but by that point the mission is basically over. Plus, it's player-triggered and so entirely gamable.

[Shakuras]

Good :
-The idea to need to move a forklift round as "step ladder" is a nice new idea
-The layout of the map is nice thoug it's easy to get lost in if you're not familiar with it

Meh :
-The music is kinda Meh, but it's probably a matter of taste, I suppose
-Still trying to figure why "locked" door can't be opened with C4 or Saw without hacking a computer. also trying to figure why those door would have some security unlike 75% of the rest of the building.
-Stealth is BS as ever with guard seeing through wall and so on, but since I kinda abandoned all hope regarding stealth & bug fixes with this game , Meh.

Bad :
-For a single 1-day heist , that price is just a terrible joke


EDIT a few Day Later :
Got to try in stealth Deathwish with friends. And of course, it was bugged right at the end.
Add
"- Untested Crap" to the Bad category

[Malidictus]

Origineel geplaatst door Shakuras:

-The idea to need to move a forklift round as "step ladder" is a nice new idea

It's a good idea in theory, but without being able to look back the layout of the basement becomes a niggling irritation. It's full of columns and boxes and other ♥♥♥♥ that gets in the way of your forklift that you can't really see behind when reversing. I'd suggest removing the random boxes and such to clear up a bit of space. There are few dumber ways to die than getting your forklift lammed against a wall.

[MOON_HALO]

Origineel geplaatst door Malidictus:

So when I found the green doors and realised they, too, are non-interactive, I assumed they were just window dressing, as well. Bain never told me what I was looking for, so all I had to go by was "Find C4." I know you'll just tell me that everything wrong is "my fault," but can you deny that having an extra voice line or two is such a bad thing? Or do you have such a low opinion of me that you're suggesting I'm the only person who'd have that problem?

A reminder every so often is good for the player, just in case they missed something before because, golly gee whiz, they're used to Bain shouting useless nonsense about snipers or Alesso that they didn't think he'd say something substantial. I mean, imagine if Bain didn't remind you every now and then of what district the Commissar was holed up in during Hotline Miami Day 1, imagine what it would be like if people missed what he said at the very beginning for whatever reason, and then they have to go through all of the barcodes hoping that each is the right one. Or if on Rats or Cook Off, he'd say a line once and only once and never repeat it again. How ♥♥♥♥♥♥ would that be? And not everyone wants to play with subtitles, either. Point is, how difficult is it for Bain to say some useless crap that would be useful to players who haven't played it before? It feels like laziness on Overkill's part.

[Malidictus]

Well, to be fair - Rarts and Hotline Miami are designed to require Input from Bain. The Alesso heist isn't, since there's no way to get it wrong. I freely admit I skimmed the mission out of habit and broke stealth too early (read: IMMEDIATELY) so I did miss Bain's cues.

That said, I still feel he should remind me, or at the very least announce the objective. We all hate "Guys, the Thermal Drill! Go get it!" that's for sure, but even then I appreciate him saying it. So many times I'd hear him say that, look to my left and say in team chat "Err... We didn't set up the drill." Three minutes after a Bank Heist as gone loud... The reminders exist for a reason, and I do believe they serve an important purpose, even if they get annoying sometimes.

(the reminders on Framing Frame can kiss my ass, but that's a separate topic)

At the very least, I'd expect Bain to have some kind of line upon finishing the security hack, such as "OK, hack's done and I've unlocked all the doors. You can get the C4 now." I'd also expect him to remind us every minute or two, say... "Guys, you need to get the C4. Remember - you're looking for green doors with a red X next to them."

Bain can sometimes talk ass for no reason, but most of what he says is useful. Yeah, once we know the heists by heart we get irritated, but his lines are very handy when we're first learning the heist. I routinely forget steps or get turned around, lose track of objectives and so on. Consciously, his reminders bug me. Subconsciously, they keep me on track. And I didn't really appreciate this until they were gone.

[Gabbe]

Origineel geplaatst door Malidictus:

Origineel geplaatst door Bindal:

The room is in full lockdown - probably meaning it has bars locking the door in place from three sides.
Don't ask why they would do that to a storage room, it's GenSec and they probably did that because they expected us to use those storage rooms at one point for something...

Fair enough, and that does explain why we need to hack the security room. But I'd still appreciate SOME way of knowing that those doors are interactive if you happen to run into them before the computer hacks. I had to come to the forums and ask where to find the C4 because I couldn't begin to imagine those doors are openable :)

you diden't think that those big red X's next to some doors ment something?

[Malidictus]

Origineel geplaatst door Gabbe (Radon):

you diden't think that those big red X's next to some doors ment something?

It's a pretty busy map with a lot going on. I didn't even notice the large X marks until I read about looking for them. They're very obvious in retrospect, but that's when I know what I'm looking for.

[Gabbe]

Origineel geplaatst door Malidictus:

Origineel geplaatst door Gabbe (Radon):

you diden't think that those big red X's next to some doors ment something?

It's a pretty busy map with a lot going on. I didn't even notice the large X marks until I read about looking for them. They're very obvious in retrospect, but that's when I know what I'm looking for.

i admit that when i played the map for the first time i was just opening random doors, untill i saw the first X. then i though "oh so thats where the C4 are, i should have brought a saw :("