Complete AK/CAR Mod Pack Analysis

[Thauma]

For The Butcher's AK/CAR Mod Pack, she has revealed a large collection of mods. Today I am here to analyze all of the viable mods in prepartion for my weapon guide with the DLC on February 27th.

Weapon Guide Here (all builds updated)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=267078509

Simple Conclusions Before You Read

[b}Consider skipping if any of the following applies[/b]

A) Using the AK. 762 as your primary, all mods via Gage Mod Courier DLC unlocked
B) Using the CAR-4 as your primary, all mods unlocked to date and don't mind Auto Fire
C) You are using the AMR-16 as your primary, all mods unlocked to date
D) Believe that the Krinkov, AMCAR, or Para become viable (all still garbage)
E) Using an Assault Rifle with better passive accuracy (Gewehr 3, Gecko 7.62, Eagle Heavy)
F) You are using Shotguns, Sniper Rifles, LMGs, or Akimbo Pistols as your primary.

Consider purchasing if any of the following applies

A) You would like additional customization in weapon appearance
B) You would no longer wish to farm as many packages for Gage Mod Courier DLC
C) You do not have Gage Mod Courier DLC (though it is way more valuable than this)
D) You would like to make the AK Rifle more viable on OVK and below
E) You would like more customization options for building these weapons for Stealth
F) You would like to avoid card farming for obsolete weapon mods as much as possible
G) You have been waiting for a proper correction to the default sight position on AK weapons

AK Mods

Low Drag Magazine
+2.5 Stability, +1 Conceal, and +4 Extra Ammo for all weapons

This is essentially a variation of the Expert Mag from the Clover Character DLC, applicable to AK weapons. A mandatory upgrade that should be taken by all builds, as it increases stability and magazine capacity without the accuracy loss of the AK Quadstacked Mag. Personally, I am more comfortable with reloading whenever I have a free moment, so additional magazine size doesn't matter, but I love mods that give universal increases with no drawbacks.

Keymod Rail
+4 Accuracy, +5/+4 Stability, and -2 Conceal for AK RIfle and 762 only

This provides an accuracy increase over the standard Lightweight Rail, with a slightly lower Stability increase. After significant theorycrafting, the Lightweight Rail is still a valid alternative in most builds due to the high stability provided and plenty of other sources for an additional two points of accuracy.

Classic Stock
+2 Accuracy, +5/+6.5/+5 Stability, and -4 Conceal

Those stats are oddly familiar and they should be. Aside from an additional concealment loss, the Accuracy and Stability are exactly that of the Lightweight Rail, but in the form of a stock. This allows you to use another Foregrip attachment instead, such as the Keymod Rail or Crabs Rail to accomodate for losing the standard War-Torn Stock.

Scope Mount
+2.5 Stability and -1 Conceal for all weapons

All of the AK weapons have suffered from an odd problem since the inception of the game. The problem is that the sight is mounted onto the foregrip as opposed to a more sensible location. Like all other sights, this provides a universal stability increase and should correct the problem that has plagued AK users since the very start.

Crabs Rail
+4 Accuracy and +3 Conceal for AK Rifle and 762 only

This is an objectively superior version of the Battleproven Handguard, providing an additonal +2 Accuracy, but this is also the Foregrip version of the War-Torn Stock without any Stability loss. Unfortunately, the Keymod Rail provides the same Accuracy increase as well as Stability, and Concealment matters not in the mass majority of loud engagements. In terms of loud engagements, this mod is rendered useless by another in the same DLC.

Modern Barrel
+5 Damage and +1 Conceal for AK Rifle and 762 only

The AK Slavic Dragon Barrel is rendered obsolete, as it causes a -4 Accuracy loss to provide the same damage and concealment increase that this new mod does. Another mandatory upgrade that can be taken without any consequence.

Aluminum Grip
+2 Accuracy and +1 Conceal for all weapons

Accuracy is normally an easy thing to reach maximum with on an AK weapon, but it takes much more stability in mods to reach the maximum. A lot of these new mods provide additional Stability, but not as much Accuracy. Now that you can more easily bridge the gap to 25 Stability, this mod can serve as another universal increase without consequence.

AK.762 Conclusion

You could already reach 18 Accuracy and 25 Stability before any skills with Gage Mod Courier DLC alone. This DLC makes it so that a new player no longer needs to farm as many packages. A 63 Damage build is possible, though it requires Auto Fire and a Fire Breather Nozzle at a bare minimum. For OVK and below, this weapon is most likely rendered obsolete due to far superior ammo capacity in the AK Rifle.

AK Rifle Conclusion

Previously, it was not possible to reach a minimum of 40 Damage and obtain the covetted perfection of Accuracy and Stability. With faster rate of fire and a higher ammo capacity, this weapon has officially made the AK.762 obsolete on ammo capacity alone, now that it can reach sufficient damage to 2 Shot Tans on OVK without any compromises.

Krinkov Submachine Conclusion

Even after all the new mods, a minimum of 40 Damage after skills is still not possible. DO NOT USE.

CAR Mods

L5 Magazine
+1.5 Stability for CAR-4, all others +1 Stability, +4 Extra Ammo all weapons

The Expert Mag from the Clover DLC, which is dependent on card drops, is provided with this DLC in the form of this magazine upgrade. Once again, like the new AK equivilant, an upgrade without consequence.

E.M.O Foregrip
+2 Accuracy, +2.5 Stability, +2 Conceal, and +2.5 Damage for CAR-4 Only

A variation of the Gage Mod Courier DLC's Competition Foregrip, which provides only two less Accuracy than the original. Accuracy is much easeir to compensate losses for than Stability. Then again, nobody really uses the Competition Foregrip due to -9 Stability that they would never be able to cancel out, so this essentially replaces a package farm mod that was primarily useless for loud to begin with.

Thrust Upper Receiver
-4 Accuracy and +5 Damage to all except AMCAR

A new spin on the traditional Exotique Receiver, which provided a small damage and stability increase. Unfortunately, the LW Upper Receiver provides a much greater benefit and after significant testing, the Thrust Upper Receiver does not provide any higher thresholds without irrecoverable accuracy losses. A mod rendered useless by another in the same DLC pack.

Long Ergo Foregrip
+5 Stability and -3 Conceal, AMR-16 exclusive

The AMR-16 has incredibly high base Stability that you will often never need to use this mod in actual practice. Cosmetic upgrade only.

Oval Foregrip
-4 Accuracy, +8 Stability, and +5 Damage for CAR-4 only

This is essentially Gazelle Rail 2.0 in every possible way. An additional accuracy loss in favor of a massive Stability increase, but the same damage increase as its predecessor. After significant testing, the CAR-4 cannot reach the 60+ damage of the AK.762, so damage beyond 40 is unnecessary. This mod does provide an effective way of reaching that and keeping Stability high.

Thrust Lower Receiver
-4 Accuracy and +5 Damage to all except AMCAR

The first ever Lower Receiver mod. This mod allows you to increase your damage by a small amount and keep your Upper Receiver slot free for the much needed LW Upper Receiver.

2 Piece Stock
+2 Accuracy, +1.5 Stability for CAR-4, all others +1 Stability, and -2 Conceal

On most setups, this does not provide any noticeable improvement over existing mods. The War-Torn Stock provides more Accuracy and the Stability penalty is very easily cancelled out. This stock has no other purpose than to cancel out the Accuracy loss from using the CAR Quadstacked Mag on the AMR-16.

LW Upper Receiver
+2 Accuracy, +4.5 Stability for CAR-4, all others +5 Stability

A universal upgrade over the Exotique Receiver, as the additional damage can be found elsewhere while this mod surpasses the Exotique with significantly more Stability. A mandatory upgrade for all builds to properly nesure maximum Accuracy and Stability.

CAR-4 Conclusion

It is much easier to reach the minimum perfection of 40 Damage, 18 Accuracy, and 25 Stability before skills without resorting to the CAR Quadstacked Mag. On this note, I would have to question the necessity to upgrade the weapon that is considered to be the staple of all others (literally it is, according to The Long Guide), and essentially kill off the Commando 553 or any other CAR-4 contender outright with this DLC pack.

AMR-16 Conclusion

The mods all seem to lead to the same conclusion on this weapon: additional damage not necessarily needed. The AMR-16 needed no additional damage from what was presently available in the game, and while it has more options, it is still incredibly easy to mod to one's expectations. Sadly, I'm afraid this weapon, like the AK 762, will be replaced by its lesser counterpart simply due to ammo capacity over anything else.

AMCAR-4 Conclusion

Despite the receivers, it still cannot achieve 40 Damage before Perks. DO NOT USE.

Para Submachine Gun Conclusion

Despite the damage increase and the additional receivers, it can reach 40 Damage exactly but almost all Accuracy is irrecoverably lost to make it happen. Since the accuracy loss cannot be cancelled out at the bare minimum, this renders the damage increases moot on the basis of having zero ability to hit the target.

But what about DMR?

Would you lose ammo capacity, ammo pickup rate, and a devastating stability loss to weapons that have very little to begin with? Absolutely not.

[grishenko [NOR]]

From my experiments on paper it seams like the pack will improve performance on death wish.

The "semi auto sharpshooter" CAR4 can today be made to 47 dmg, 16 accuracy and 20 stability (all before skills). With this pack you could switch from Funnel of Fun to Competitors Compensator and use the new Lower Receiver with +5 dmg instead, that should give you 47 dmg, 18 accuracy and 22.5 stability. A minor improvement.

My major question is on the 762. Because of the higher base damage index steps soon go from +2.5 dmg and over to +5 dmg per index. That means that it should be possible with perk deck to get 63 dmg and perhaps as high as 16 accuracy. That will be interesting on death wish and I cannot wait to try it out :-)

[Thauma]

Originally posted by LOUD DW grishenko NOR:

From my experiments on paper it seams like the pack will improve performance on death wish.

The "semi auto sharpshooter" CAR4 can today be made to 47 dmg, 16 accuracy and 20 stability (all before skills). With this pack you could switch from Funnel of Fun to Competitors Compensator and use the new Lower Receiver with +5 dmg instead, that should give you 47 dmg, 18 accuracy and 22.5 stability. A minor improvement.

My major question is on the 762. Because of the higher base damage index steps soon go from +2.5 dmg and over to +5 dmg per index. That means that it should be possible with perk deck to get 63 dmg and perhaps as high as 16 accuracy. That will be interesting on death wish and I cannot wait to try it out :-)

CAR-4 no longer needs Auto Fire to reach 18 Accuracy, 25 Stability, and respectable damage for OVK/DW. Tecnically, it could be done today without that, but it involves the CAR Quadstacked Mag. Personally, i've been the one to say magazine increases are subjective and don't majorly improve anything, merely player preference.

As for the AK 762, the 63 Damage is possible in only 2 ways. Implying Modern Barrel, you can do Fire Breather + Auto Fire or a flat Funnel of Fun Nozzle. The Fire Breather Auto Fire version can reach perfect Accuracy and Stability, while the Funnel of Fun has too much of an accuracy loss to handle.

In terms of Death Wish, a 47 Damage CAR-4 4 Shots Tans and 3 Shots Greys, while a 63 Damage AK 762 can 3 Shot Tans and 2 Shot Greys. That means without ammo pickups and perfect headshots, a CAR-4 with that much damage can kill 37.5 Tans or 50 Grays. An AK 762 with higher damage but only 90 bullets can kill 30 Tans or 45 Grays.

An AK 762 with 63 Damage will be on par with a 47 Damage CAR-4 on DW, but sadly, the AK 762 picks up almost half the bullets of a CAR-4. An average of 3.15 bullets before Walk-In Closet/Fully Loaded Aced vs an average of 5.25. For every tan, the efficiency is 1.15 vs 1.3125 while for every grey, the efficiency is 1.575 vs 1.75.

End result, while the AK 762 has almost twice the killing power per magazine of the CAR-4 on DW, the CAR-4 still comes out ahead on ammo efficiency, despite doing far less damage simply because it has far greater ammo capacity.

This is why I removed the whole wording of "Death Wish" build, simply because lower damage weapons with greater ammo capacity are more efficient than higher damage with far less.

[grishenko [NOR]]

Weapons with 40+ dmg and 150 is more ammo efficient, but a 63 dmg AK could kill faster. On some heists you dont need to conserve ammo so a higher damage weapon might be a good choice.

Your first example is wrong though, but I assume you did not want a semi auto locked weapon? With the Expert Mag a 42 dmg 18 accuracy 25 stability CAR4 is easy to make - with semi auto lock. I never "spray" as I want to know where my shots hit ;-)

[Thauma]

Originally posted by LOUD DW grishenko NOR:

Weapons with 40+ dmg and 150 is more ammo efficient, but a 63 dmg AK could kill faster. On some heists you dont need to conserve ammo so a higher damage weapon might be a good choice.

Your first example is wrong though, but I assume you did not want a semi auto locked weapon? With the Expert Mag a 42 dmg 18 accuracy 25 stability CAR4 is easy to make - with semi auto lock. I never "spray" as I want to know where my shots hit ;-)

Semi auto and Auto Lock are not the same. People can certainly burst fire and have no trouble with the Auto Fire mod, but I would love people to A) have options in combat and B) not be forced to purchase the DLC it comes from if they don't have to.

[grishenko [NOR]]

You are thinking about players who dont have Gage Weapon pack 1 (or was it 2), ok I can see your point.

[Thauma]

Originally posted by LOUD DW grishenko NOR:

You are thinking about players who dont have Gage Weapon pack 1 (or was it 2), ok I can see your point.

Yeah, it's partially that. I know that there's a LOT of DLC that as far as weapons are concerned, have become really redundant or rendered useless by future DLC. Some people have better control with single fire; some have better with auto fire. I want to give people the option, as having that option is an objectively useful thing.

The less DLC you need to buy to make something viable, the better. No weapon in the history of this game can reach a minimum of 45/18/25 before skills with zero DLC, making me think that it's not OVERKILL's intention to allow players to either reach the Accuracy or Stability cap, or figure out the damage breakpoints. The game (in terms of weapon customization and variety) is clearly orientated toward the blind and not the scrutinous.

PAYDAY 2's weapon balance seems far more orientated to those who don't pay attention to the finer details of weapon stats. Those that do pay attention will objectively play this game better than those that don't and the least I can do is provide players what they need to play as optimally as possible.

And this is why I made The Stranger in the Heist's Elite Aresenal.

[ninja crouton]

I'm confused as to why you ignore the DMR kits completely. Sure you lose lots of ammo and pickup, but you also conserve more ammo. With a DMR kit, you might be able to get to the point where you can 1 or 2 hit every enemy except dozers, I'd have to do the maths on that and I am being lazy, but I did figure it out with the G3. That ends up giving you roughly the same (if not more) ammo efficiency

[grishenko [NOR]]

Originally posted by ninja crouton:

I'm confused as to why you ignore the DMR kits completely. Sure you lose lots of ammo and pickup, but you also conserve more ammo. With a DMR kit, you might be able to get to the point where you can 1 or 2 hit every enemy except dozers, I'd have to do the maths on that and I am being lazy, but I did figure it out with the G3. That ends up giving you roughly the same (if not more) ammo efficiency

The G3 have 48 ammo and can be modded to 110 or so damage, the M308 have 40 ammo and can get 115. If you bring a Rattlesnake you get 125 damage and 50 ammo - and the thing shoots through walls...

If DMR kits had the penetration of sniper rifles they would be good imo.

[Bindal]

Originally posted by LOUD DW grishenko NOR:

Originally posted by ninja crouton:

I'm confused as to why you ignore the DMR kits completely. Sure you lose lots of ammo and pickup, but you also conserve more ammo. With a DMR kit, you might be able to get to the point where you can 1 or 2 hit every enemy except dozers, I'd have to do the maths on that and I am being lazy, but I did figure it out with the G3. That ends up giving you roughly the same (if not more) ammo efficiency

The G3 have 48 ammo and can be modded to 110 or so damage, the M308 have 40 ammo and can get 115. If you bring a Rattlesnake you get 125 damage and 50 ammo - and the thing shoots through walls...

But has the third-lowest RoF in the game (equal to the mosin and only beats the R93 and the Thanatos) while the other two have a RoF in the three-digit area because they're semi-automatic.

[ninja crouton]

Originally posted by LOUD DW grishenko NOR:

Originally posted by ninja crouton:

I'm confused as to why you ignore the DMR kits completely. Sure you lose lots of ammo and pickup, but you also conserve more ammo. With a DMR kit, you might be able to get to the point where you can 1 or 2 hit every enemy except dozers, I'd have to do the maths on that and I am being lazy, but I did figure it out with the G3. That ends up giving you roughly the same (if not more) ammo efficiency

The G3 have 48 ammo and can be modded to 110 or so damage, the M308 have 40 ammo and can get 115. If you bring a Rattlesnake you get 125 damage and 50 ammo - and the thing shoots through walls...

If DMR kits had the penetration of sniper rifles they would be good imo.

Absolutely true, but I don't like sniper scopes, I don't like how the angled sights feel on the rattlesnake, and I don't care to have the sniper DLC (because I don't like the scopes or the angled sights). After trying them out on another's account I can confirm that I suck at hitting things with the angled sights, and so that makes the G3 and the M308 much better for me. Ultimately it is about YOUR efficiency with a gun, not the technical efficiency (same reason I don't use Car-4 on automatic, I have some trouble controlling the way it recoils)

[grishenko [NOR]]

Dont like sniper scopes? Neither do I. I use Speculator Sight and military flashlight...