Why every single tactical uses grenade launcher

[McDinglefart]

95% of them they just spamming grenades. Hahaha. Out of 12 tacticals I only met 1 with different weapon.

GL Tactical's every single round.
https://ibb.co/Jdqdmyz
https://ibb.co/5MHY8Hv
https://ibb.co/mttwJJj
https://ibb.co/wgD3Qdp
https://ibb.co/GR17n6L
https://ibb.co/zVb39sw
https://ibb.co/vstHqj0
https://ibb.co/Y3bS9pt
https://ibb.co/5G4xv2v
https://ibb.co/Jdqdmyz
https://ibb.co/mttwJJj
https://ibb.co/bB4FbjK

Stop being a cheese.

[Draescan]

Stalker Bolter and the Plasma Incinerator are more fun anyways :P

[Chimz]

If you allow players to cheese, there will ALWAYS be a population that will cheese. Why bother improving skill when you can cheese? Why bother challenge yourself when you can cheese?

[McDinglefart]

Originally posted by Chimz:

If you allow players to cheese, there will ALWAYS be a population that will cheese. Why bother improving skill when you can cheese? Why bother challenge yourself when you can cheese?

Exactly. Then they start complaining when they’re called out. Other powerful weapons, like the melta gun and heavy plasma incendiator, have clear drawbacks: one is weaker against major targets and bosses with limited range, while the other suffers from limited ammo and a charge time. Plus, the heavy class has its own drawback — it’s less effective in melee combat. If you get surrounded, you can’t rely on DPS; you have to parry, dodge, and manage other tactics.

The grenade launcher, though, bypasses all of this. It’s essentially a heavy incendiary weapon with infinite ammo, instantly spammable shots, and it’s paired with a class that can also handle itself well in melee, unlike the heavy. Caught in a tight spot? Just spam grenades, clear everything in front of you, or dive into melee with superior melee abilities.

[Hot-Smoker85]

I've not seen much GLs lately, but when I do see them, they literally just kill everything and leave the rest of the squad with nothing to do, which wouldn't be a big problem if they don't do it for every damned wave, no other ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ class can just delete ANYTHING they want with 0 effort.

[Rabbit]

SEETHE

[GHSTKILA93]

sounds like a crybaby to me.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by McDinglefart:

Why every single tactical uses grenade launcher

Same reason why they used to use the Melta. It is overpowered compared to the other options and not everyone likes a challenge or wants to put in the effort to learn the game.

And that is fine. As long as you get through the mission and everyone is having fun, who cares who is using what weapon?

[noSense]

Originally posted by Chimz:

If you allow players to cheese, there will ALWAYS be a population that will cheese. Why bother improving skill when you can cheese? Why bother challenge yourself when you can cheese?

I don't think I ever seen a game without cheese and there will always be people abusing it.

There are two things to reduce it:
1) Make everything viable and game rules clear. This will reduce amount of people who will find it by just trying to be effective. The less effectiveness difference between cheese and regular gameplay, the fewer people will find it by just looking to be effective and feel like the have to abuse it to have fun.
2) Internal QA something like GL spawn should be easy to find and if it's a bug - detected by basic regression testing.

Unfortunately game right now is on opposite side on both measures.

[Mu'Ammar of Carthus]

They should nerf it to oblivion, you can't take Tactical anymore without people b*tching and moaning if you don't use GL.

[casdarius]

if it werent required to carry pub games i wouldnt ever touch it again.

[McDinglefart]

Originally posted by casdavir:

if it werent required to carry pub games i wouldnt ever touch it again.

So you're so bad that you need to use cheese weapon.

[AonGreyFox]

Originally posted by noSense:

Originally posted by Chimz:

If you allow players to cheese, there will ALWAYS be a population that will cheese. Why bother improving skill when you can cheese? Why bother challenge yourself when you can cheese?

I don't think I ever seen a game without cheese and there will always be people abusing it.

There are two things to reduce it:
1) Make everything viable and game rules clear. This will reduce amount of people who will find it by just trying to be effective. The less effectiveness difference between cheese and regular gameplay, the fewer people will find it by just looking to be effective and feel like the have to abuse it to have fun.
2) Internal QA something like GL spawn should be easy to find and if it's a bug - detected by basic regression testing.

Unfortunately game right now is on opposite side on both measures.

Usually developer don't have enough play time to properly cover every visible option, specially in game with many possibility (not this one through, they just don't bother for gaming experience beside bug test run.)

However, cheese is not equal to most efficiency or Meta. Simply put, cheese is make by unintentional, glitch, bug, unexpected way while Meta follow by rule for best possible outcome. Many people will always look for best outcome, so Meta happen and will be use a lot but it's acceptable.

But if cheese exist and don't get fix, they'll switch to cheese due to how easy to achieve the same goal.

[Tsorig]

Originally posted by McDinglefart:

Originally posted by Chimz:

If you allow players to cheese, there will ALWAYS be a population that will cheese. Why bother improving skill when you can cheese? Why bother challenge yourself when you can cheese?

Exactly. Then they start complaining when they’re called out. Other powerful weapons, like the melta gun and heavy plasma incendiator, have clear drawbacks: one is weaker against major targets and bosses with limited range, while the other suffers from limited ammo and a charge time. Plus, the heavy class has its own drawback — it’s less effective in melee combat. If you get surrounded, you can’t rely on DPS; you have to parry, dodge, and manage other tactics.

The grenade launcher, though, bypasses all of this. It’s essentially a heavy incendiary weapon with infinite ammo, instantly spammable shots, and it’s paired with a class that can also handle itself well in melee, unlike the heavy. Caught in a tight spot? Just spam grenades, clear everything in front of you, or dive into melee with superior melee abilities.

Very well said brother! Now, prepare getting wine from these average GL enjoyers. They are emotional damaged after this comment.

[noSense]

Originally posted by AonGreyFox:

Usually developer don't have enough play time to properly cover every visible option, specially in game with many possibility (not this one through, they just don't bother for gaming experience beside bug test run.)

However, cheese is not equal to most efficiency or Meta. Simply put, cheese is make by unintentional, glitch, bug, unexpected way while Meta follow by rule for best possible outcome. Many people will always look for best outcome, so Meta happen and will be use a lot but it's acceptable.

But if cheese exist and don't get fix, they'll switch to cheese due to how easy to achieve the same goal.

Any software will have bugs and most complex set of rules will have unexpected combinations witch are cheesy from my point of view.
It will exists and there always will be players who abuse it and only proportion of players can be affected, not the fact that some cheesy tactics will be found.

In this discussion we have at least one person, expressing feeling that they need GL for public lobbies. So the effectiveness of any other tool is so low, that using GL feels like mandatory, not even other meta covers the difference enough. That is what my first part is about.

You don't need a lot of playtime if you are a QA who worked on the game since alpha builds and have access to testing build to run regression. This is spottable if you just doing a regression run checking that all guns work with a related ability. Unless there are no internal QA or they are overworked/not given time for testing.

Sill I think just making other parts of gameplay more consistent and other guns more viable would have reduced GL spam significantly even with the same bug being missed (which happens, to be honest, anything can be missed, because human brain is very imperfect)

[McDinglefart]

Originally posted by AonGreyFox:

Originally posted by noSense:

I don't think I ever seen a game without cheese and there will always be people abusing it.

There are two things to reduce it:
1) Make everything viable and game rules clear. This will reduce amount of people who will find it by just trying to be effective. The less effectiveness difference between cheese and regular gameplay, the fewer people will find it by just looking to be effective and feel like the have to abuse it to have fun.
2) Internal QA something like GL spawn should be easy to find and if it's a bug - detected by basic regression testing.

Unfortunately game right now is on opposite side on both measures.

Usually developer don't have enough play time to properly cover every visible option, specially in game with many possibility (not this one through, they just don't bother for gaming experience beside bug test run.)

However, cheese is not equal to most efficiency or Meta. Simply put, cheese is make by unintentional, glitch, bug, unexpected way while Meta follow by rule for best possible outcome. Many people will always look for best outcome, so Meta happen and will be use a lot but it's acceptable.

But if cheese exist and don't get fix, they'll switch to cheese due to how easy to achieve the same goal.

It is obvious that the talent "emperor" for grenade launcher doesn't work as intended.
It recovers 20-30% ammo for plasma and 1 clip for bolter. Do you think the devs intended it to recover the entire 14 grenades?
Do you think devs intended to make tactical recover whole 14 grenades where this perk struggles to keep generic bullets recovered?
IT was recovering entire plasma incinerator ammo on kills until it was fixed.