Is challenge mode supposed to get HARDER after World 8?

[Dairyman]

I was breezing trough the first 8 world in Challenge mode and now I'm getting my ass kicked against the boss in 9-6. I'm 800k Power Level.

[Honorable_D]

Are you using a character that has a damage shield or self-healing?

[Dairyman]

Dark Mega Man EXE. I was melting the boss in 8-6.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Challenge mode ignores power level, only skills matter (character skills, weapon skills, or "git gud" skills, with the latter being expected for something called "challenge mode").

EDIT: Okay, Chip, Card and DiVE Trigger effects also apply. I just couldn't resist that line.

[SparkTFS]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

Challenge mode ignores power level, only skills matter (character skills, weapon skills, or "git gud" skills, with the latter being expected for something called "challenge mode").

EDIT: Okay, Chip, Card and DiVE Trigger effects also apply. I just couldn't resist that line.

Also, your stackable passives from cards. At some point, unless you're with the most broken characters in the game, you're gonna need to maximize the Attack/Defense buff percentage you get from cards.

[Null_User]

This game lacks the meticulous balance a single player game is expected to have. This is for obvious reasons. So you will find some things that you will breeze through, and other things that will hand your behind to you in less than a second. So yeah, after a certain point, challenge mode is beatable by either very talented players, or by everyone else with cheese builds.

And then there's those 32 HP bar event challenge bosses. They are not much harder, but most stages require you to also find items in them AND do it all under a timer for a chance at S ranking them. And yes, these are part of the in game achievements.

[CrowRising]

Originally posted by Null_User:

This game lacks the meticulous balance a single player game is expected to have.

I wouldn't say this is quite true. There are a few noteworthy exceptions, but outside of them the game (especially the main story mode) actually does generally seem to have had a lot of care put into its balance to play out rather like a traditional single player experience, though you will obviously still have to interact with the RPG elements.

Challenge mode is among the noteworthy exceptions in that it's clearly intended in this version of the game to generally fall under the banner of "Optional/Post-Game Content".

[Casual Amateur]

Originally posted by Null_User:

This game lacks the meticulous balance a single player game is expected to have. This is for obvious reasons. So you will find some things that you will breeze through, and other things that will hand your behind to you in less than a second. So yeah, after a certain point, challenge mode is beatable by either very talented players, or by everyone else with cheese builds.

And then there's those 32 HP bar event challenge bosses. They are not much harder, but most stages require you to also find items in them AND do it all under a timer for a chance at S ranking them. And yes, these are part of the in game achievements.

Don't we all like to use over power character for fun or just want to get them done faster.

[CyclonefernoX]

Originally posted by Mossy Mushroom:

Don't we all like to use over power character for fun or just want to get them done faster.

On one hand, the power fantasy element of using an overpowered character can be satisfying, especially if that character took a lot of effort to unlock.

On the other hand, overpowered characters can quickly become boring, and the option to just choose them at any moment can lessen the sense of achievement from beating a challenge.

There's a reason why most of the other X games only give you the overpowered options at the end of the game or through passwords.

[CrowRising]

Originally posted by CyclonefernoX:

Originally posted by Mossy Mushroom:

Don't we all like to use over power character for fun or just want to get them done faster.

On one hand, the power fantasy element of using an overpowered character can be satisfying, especially if that character took a lot of effort to unlock.

On the other hand, overpowered characters can quickly become boring, and the option to just choose them at any moment can lessen the sense of achievement from beating a challenge.

There's a reason why most of the other X games only give you the overpowered options at the end of the game or through passwords.

I feel differently to be honest. Having the option to use overpowered characters but deliberately choosing not to use them heightens the sense of achievement for me because it means that I had the self restraint not to, and overcame a challenge on my own terms rather than having to do it a certain way because I was railroaded into it.

That being said, most of the overpowered stuff in this game is gated behind progress anyway.

[CyclonefernoX]

Originally posted by CrowRising:

I feel differently to be honest. Having the option to use overpowered characters but deliberately choosing not to use them heightens the sense of achievement for me because it means that I had the self restraint not to, and overcame a challenge on my own terms rather than having to do it a certain way because I was railroaded into it.

That being said, most of the overpowered stuff in this game is gated behind progress anyway.

Fair enough, but I think it's important to distinguish between player-made restrictions and those encouraged by the game design. The former can make the sense of achievement more personal, while the latter helps make it more universal (not entirely, of course, as feeling achieved is predominantly subjective.)

As for this game specifically, you can very easily become overpowered early on. S Class X is available after beating 1-6, and a lot of overpowered event characters can be obtained as soon as you reach level 60. Not to mention, Black Zero and Ferham allow for cheese strats almost right out the gate. I appreciate that some effort was made to balance progression by spacing out some unlocks, but from the hours I've put into the game, it's still uneven.

[Null_User]

Originally posted by Mossy Mushroom:

Don't we all like to use over power character for fun or just want to get them done faster.

There are various reasons to use overpowered stuff in a game. Clearing the game faster is one of them, while power fantasy is another. All of them are valid reasons to me. Some games will let you unlock the OP stuff earlier than others, and some rare games out there will even unlock the stuff only to show you the CPU can do the exact same.

It reminds me of Ridge Racer 6 on xbox 360. You get to unlock these super OP cars, but you won't get to use them on most races because all races are locked to car tiers. Then there's a secret set of races you unlock that the game even tells you are entirely optional and you don't need to beat them. Why? because the CPU is tuned to the max in those, and you will need to go through some heavy higher learning just to catch up.

In this game, what i feel would be the more challenging content, and not from a survival standpoint, would be the event challenge mode. As I said above, you will have to do the whole stage as it is on normal mode (collecting the items and all that), but bosses have 32 health bars and harder defenses. They won't kill you, but the stage timer for S rank is the same or close to same as normal mode, at least on the stages I tried. So you will need something strong enough to melt those HP bars on time.

Originally posted by CrowRising:

I wouldn't say this is quite true. There are a few noteworthy exceptions, but outside of them the game (especially the main story mode) actually does generally seem to have had a lot of care put into its balance to play out rather like a traditional single player experience, though you will obviously still have to interact with the RPG elements.

Challenge mode is among the noteworthy exceptions in that it's clearly intended in this version of the game to generally fall under the banner of "Optional/Post-Game Content".

I'm not so sure. Yes, normal mode seems more or less like a weaker version of the Online one. Offline normal mode becomes trivial midway through it because you are able to get so much power that even the weaker characters can breeze through it. But challenge mode was to me a mixed bag with some stages being way easier than others, and not in the correct difficulty order, though this was my experience on it when I did it, and I say things as I see them. Meaning, not gonna hammer my own opinion as the "truth".

[William Shakesman]

Originally posted by CyclonefernoX:

Originally posted by CrowRising:

I feel differently to be honest. Having the option to use overpowered characters but deliberately choosing not to use them heightens the sense of achievement for me because it means that I had the self restraint not to, and overcame a challenge on my own terms rather than having to do it a certain way because I was railroaded into it.

That being said, most of the overpowered stuff in this game is gated behind progress anyway.

Fair enough, but I think it's important to distinguish between player-made restrictions and those encouraged by the game design. The former can make the sense of achievement more personal, while the latter helps make it more universal (not entirely, of course, as feeling achieved is predominantly subjective.)

As for this game specifically, you can very easily become overpowered early on. S Class X is available after beating 1-6, and a lot of overpowered event characters can be obtained as soon as you reach level 60. Not to mention, Black Zero and Ferham allow for cheese strats almost right out the gate. I appreciate that some effort was made to balance progression by spacing out some unlocks, but from the hours I've put into the game, it's still uneven.

What do you cheese with Ferham?

I would say the game did a good job of making blasting popcorn enemies fun and the final couple of bosses managed to still be a little tricky. That said, most of the boss designs are solid because they are copying from MMX (And the garbage ones are bad for the same reason). But I think the problem is it is hard to make the game feel like a fair fight. You either have a character that is not up to the task or you have a character that trivializes it and to experiment back and forth to find a "still is fun to use but doesn't sleepwalk through the fight" combo is tough.

I appreciate Challenge Mode though. More gachas could benefit from a "grind stats don't matter" mode... well the two or three gachas with non-awful gameplay.

[Lord Torstein]

Have to hard disagree with Crow on this one. X Dive is not and never was a balanced game. This was by design, and despite the slight reworking some previously PvP-centric characters and cards received in the offline version, overall this imbalance is still prevalent.

This isn't necessarily a problem per se, but this dynamic is hard to ignore. That all said, most characters with the right card, chip, and weapon setup are reasonably viable for most content--including most challenge modes.

A big tip for challenge modes in particular is this: stacked damage bonus multipliers are very important. Provided you have some form of self heal that works on bosses and/or a consistent shield, offense is--like in most action games--king. Many characters have significant passive bonuses to damage output and mitigation when using certain weapon types, so capitalize on that.

An example of this would the ubiquitous buster/melee build. Byte on the blade and Via■ on the buster are two flavors of damage pump that, if played right, can stack very quickly for a spike in output.

[CyclonefernoX]

Originally posted by William Shakesman:

What do you cheese with Ferham?

I would say the game did a good job of making blasting popcorn enemies fun and the final couple of bosses managed to still be a little tricky. That said, most of the boss designs are solid because they are copying from MMX (And the garbage ones are bad for the same reason). But I think the problem is it is hard to make the game feel like a fair fight. You either have a character that is not up to the task or you have a character that trivializes it and to experiment back and forth to find a "still is fun to use but doesn't sleepwalk through the fight" combo is tough.

I appreciate Challenge Mode though. More gachas could benefit from a "grind stats don't matter" mode... well the two or three gachas with non-awful gameplay.

Ferham gets shields at two stars, and shielding is arguably the most powerful ability in the game. She also gets healing on enemy defeat through her second DNA code on the same attack she gains shields with. Mob encounters are trivial, and you have much more leverage in boss encounters.

The start of Torstein's comment reflects my feelings on the balance of the game well. I'll add that, because the discrepancy between characters can be so wide, it often discourages learning how to play a character well. Playing First Armour X well later on requires a higher degree of proficiency compared to S Class X, but the game gives you little to no reason to use 1AX when S Class X does things so much better and is available at roughly the same time. These differences only become more pronounced as you continue through the game, especially with the event characters.

Other than that, largely agree with your comment.

[Ataraxia]

Originally posted by Dairyman:

I was breezing trough the first 8 world in Challenge mode and now I'm getting my ass kicked against the boss in 9-6. I'm 800k Power Level.

This might be an old post but here's a new answer who also struggled beating Bit at 9-6 as well. Be patient and beat 16-6 normal and unlock Super Bass and you can easily beat bit with the right mods etc. Super Bass is OP imo even before the end game content. Pure power.