Money = Power

[Slendro]

After playing for a little while and learning how to do well in the game i sadly discovered if i want to do well, or rather even have the ability to do well i have to spend a fair bit of cash or play an obsessive amount. Im not saying the game is bad, but i am saying its no fun without a large commitment for me.

[Glaedr304]

i have been using the stock gun and i am a definate threat to the enemy

[B O L T M A N]

If you want to own balls, then yes you have to pay to win, but you can still be a good threat without paying.

[klutch52]

buying weapons is a good choice, but even though it might take a while for u to get them without paying you can still do good in matches. i just got 47 kills and 13 deaths from just the stock weps. good luck

[whispa]

how have you come to that conclusion? i suggest you join a outfit. the game can have that impression if you play solo, or you play with people that don't communicate and support each others role well and seem to do there own thing. trust me most of the gun unlocks ant much better. i've unlocked 4, 1000 cert gun's all of them were a big let down. sure some of them hit harder and fire faster but they use up ammo faster. i keep running out of ammo if i don't get the support i need. 2 of those gun's i unlocked i don't use anymore. :(

[Nuclear Kangaroo]

yup you are completely right, in fact this is not the first thread on the matter, but some of the most extremist fanboys will still deny this and provide flawed arguments to counter your point

Ursprungligen skrivet av whispa:

how have you come to that conclusion? i suggest you join a outfit. the game can have that impression if you play solo, or you play with people that don't communicate and support each others role well and seem to do there own thing. trust me most of the gun unlocks ant much better. i've unlocked 4, 1000 cert gun's all of them were a big let down. sure some of them hit harder and fire faster but they use up ammo faster. i keep running out of ammo if i don't get the support i need. 2 of those gun's i unlocked i don't use anymore. :(

2 words, vehicle weapons

[bozer]

It's actually REALLY easy to gain certs, it's just the saving part. And the guns are a 'bit' pricey but hey, they gotta make money some way. I gain about 90 certs from a couple hours worth of doing extremely well. And even if you dont want to get certs, the guns are only like 7 dollars each. And not to mention the trial system.

[Tyrannical Turtle]

I disagree most guns cost lets says 500-700 certs I averge with out boost 150certs an hour which I don't think is bad at all So playing an 1hr-2hr's a day I'll have set gun in 2-3 days small price to pay for an upgrade.

[whispa]

vehicle weapons are no good if the noobs are getting in the way. ok take the dalton, nice op weapon good for suppressing a base to submission. but if to many noobs are camping the spawn point the splash damage are killing your own it doesn't take to much splash and your weapons will be locked. or if you got your lib over a base and you don't have fighters in the air with you to keep the enemy fighters off you. you are as good as dead. communication is key to winning this game. without the right support in the right place at the right time you ant gonna win the war. i see it all the time.

[Slurgi]

I've been doing really well with the starter gear.

[MrMango]

Ursprungligen skrivet av daicon:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nuclear Kangaroo:

yup you are completely right, in fact this is not the first thread on the matter, but some of the most extremist fanboys will still deny this and provide flawed arguments to counter your point

2 words, vehicle weapons

Air-to-ground is overpowered at the moment, but that isn't an indicator of pay-2-win. Even if it did, that would just mean "pay 7 USD to unlock everything worth owning". The stock weapons are, in many cases, the best all around choice for every class/empire with some exception. I haven't come across anyone saying that one of the 1000 cert weapons was worth owning over them.

Keep in mind individual player upgrades can't be bought with real money, and those are what any decent player would be sinking his certs into unless you just feel for some strange reason you NEED that 1000 cert weapon... Luckily you can go that route too, but you gotta put in some work for it. If you buy it, well then you're supporting the game, saving yourself time, and getting a permanent in-game weapon that could change your playstyle. Many other games would be selling you a gun RENTAL to use in-game. PS2 lets you buy a permanent addition to your virtual armory for 7 USD($3.50 if you buy SC on one of the frequent Double days, or even less if you buy on a Triple day). The cash shop is very fair to all players.

This is more of an MMO than your COD and Battlefield game where unlocks are obtained one after another. Many of the people lamenting P2W are used to those games and can't wrap their head around PS2 which is supposed to have the staying power of a proper MMO. Maxing out a class is akin to getting a max level character in other MMOs. It takes awhile... And you don't even need to unlock all the upgrades, just the ones you want. I've only played 30 hours or less and I've almost maxed out the upgrades I want for my Light Assault easily and I don't even play with cert gain in mind.

There are alot of bad players on this game who need something to blame. Let me guess, these arguments are flawed because you follow this strict, unrealistic definition of pay-2-win? I hope not after I typed way too much on the matter...

This game has just way too much fanboys..

You want a weapon which is worth owning it and has no downgrade? NS-11A.

And yes, the class upgrades...well, it isn't like players who pay money for the weapon they like would get a gigantic time advantage over everybody who doesn't. Just about 1 Week if it's a 500 Cert weapon...

"A permanent ingame weapon" - Nope, you're changing the server? Well, then you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ you have to buy the same weapon again. :) And many other Games would sell you a rental gun? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, are you playing some chinese F2P ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games only?!
The Cash shop isn't fair, in no way! Keep in mind 7 bucks for a DIGITAL Item, not even TF2 Heads are so expensive!

So, you're played 30 Hours or less yes? Well, it's quit obvious that you are a ultra casher, because I've now over 40 Hours in the Game as a medic. I'm never under a KD of 2 and healing and reviving my ass off. And 7000-10000 Points per hour are "Okay" I would say. Now, I got in 40 hours about 1000 Certs now and I'm not even close to "All the upgrades I want"! But, well I'm pretty sure you're getting 50% more exp then me and bought your weapon instead of spending 500 Certs on it like I did. ;)

So, I'm actually really damn good in this game and I blame PS2 for a lot of things like
- Unable to balance stuff
- Poorly optimization
- unbelievable expensive ingame shop
- players who spent money get a giant time advante over player who don't
- a big amount of bugs in the game
And the list goes on...

(Btw. I'm not the only one with this view of things, there are a lot of really good players in my outfit and they're thinking the same way. Because it's the truth.
Sorry, I'm really not a cheap bastard and can afford some weapons, some cool helmets and camos. But I don't want to, because I'm not spending money on a game that I'm not sure how long it'll last if SOE isn't doing something...)

[Nuclear Kangaroo]

Ursprungligen skrivet av daicon:

Air-to-ground is overpowered at the moment, but that isn't an indicator of pay-2-win. Even if it did, that would just mean "pay 7 USD to unlock everything worth owning". The stock weapons are, in many cases, the best all around choice for every class/empire with some exception. I haven't come across anyone saying that one of the 1000 cert weapons was worth owning over them.

first of all those vehicle weapons are not sidegrades, they completely change the role of the weapon, this means that in certain situations they are a complete advantage, for instance if you are facing planes, AA guns are an upgrade over stock guns, if you are attacking a small face with no heavy vehicle spawners HE turrets are an upgrade over the stock, etc

Ursprungligen skrivet av daicon:

Keep in mind individual player upgrades can't be bought with real money, and those are what any decent player would be sinking his certs into unless you just feel for some strange reason you NEED that 1000 cert weapon... Luckily you can go that route too, but you gotta put in some work for it. If you buy it, well then you're supporting the game, saving yourself time, and getting a permanent in-game weapon that could change your playstyle. Many other games would be selling you a gun RENTAL to use in-game. PS2 lets you buy a permanent addition to your virtual armory for 7 USD($3.50 if you buy SC on one of the frequent Double days, or even less if you buy on a Triple day). The cash shop is very fair to all players.

the argument would be half valid if boosts didnt exist, but boosts do exist, so you are forced to decide between upgraqding your stuff or getting new stuff, thats the reason why Tribes: Ascend abandoned this practice

the only game that i know that only allows you to rent weapons is those ♥♥♥♥♥♥ free battlefield games and they are so ridiculosuly Pay2Win they are not even worth mentioning, if anything you can argue "PS2 is better than that" that doesnt mean the model is good or even adequate

why dont we compare this to say BLR, in BLR you can build your own weapon by buying different parts with in-game currency or real cash, getting a part for free takes a reasonable amount of time, not to much and not too little and considering that part can be used for different weapon builds its well worth your money/time, also BLR allows you to rent weapons and parts to try em out before buying them, this costs ingame currency or real cash, but the rental works for a day and the in-game currency needed for a rental can be earned in 1/2 matches, the rental can also be reactivated right after it finishes, PS2 trials while free only last 30 minutes and once it ends it takes a good while before you can use the system again, from what i understand a day or more

Ursprungligen skrivet av daicon:

This is more of an MMO than your COD and Battlefield game where unlocks are obtained one after another. Many of the people lamenting P2W are used to those games and can't wrap their head around PS2 which is supposed to have the staying power of a proper MMO. Maxing out a class is akin to getting a max level character in other MMOs. It takes awhile... And you don't even need to unlock all the upgrades, just the ones you want. I've only played 30 hours or less and I've almost maxed out the upgrades I want for my Light Assault easily and I don't even play with cert gain in mind.

this is a completely flawed argument, PS2 is only a MMO regarding the player count but when it comes to mechanics its not that different from COD, BF or MAG, compare this to a MMORPG where grinding is somehwat justified because it can be done in a variety of ways and you are not directly affected by the lack of it

in a MMORPG you can do quests and kill NPC, you can ofthen craft or participate in other related side acitivities, exploration, quest selection, etc, these kind of thing lessen the burden of grinding and the fact you cannot be killed randomly by higher leveled players unless you actively PVP means your lack of grinding doesnt detract from the experience

in PS2, you can get killed and will often get killed because you cant access a certain piece of equipment because you havent grinded hard enough, exploration is discouraged, entering in a zone controlled by the enemy will get you in trouble, the only way to level up is kill, kill, kill, control bases, kill, you are often forced to play in the same enviroments over and over again because your faction cant push hard enough into the enemy territory, like for instance when you get pushed back to the warp gate

as you can see, the fact its an MMO is NOT an excuse for this model, it hardly makes a difference when it comes to grinding, its just a sannoying as it would be in any other FPS

Ursprungligen skrivet av daicon:

There are alot of bad players on this game who need something to blame. Let me guess, these arguments are flawed because you follow this strict, unrealistic definition of pay-2-win? I hope not after I typed way too much on the matter...

Pay 2 Win: a Free2Play model that gives a paying player a significant advantage over a free player, hell the resource boost ♥♥♥♥ premium players get is enough to fit this defintion

most F2P games are Pay2Win to some degree, the thing is moderation should exist and the free player should never be too far behind

TF2 premium players have a bigger backpack and therefore more options to play, but a free player can craft and get weapons so he can build himself a good arsenal too, there are also polycount hats but thats a mistake and theres nothing that can be done about it

BLR a premium player can buy ♥♥♥♥ like premade weapons, weapons parts and gear, but you can rent those too very easily and unlocking them doesnt take that much, maybe gear takes a bit too much but its not out of the question, theres also some stuff like heroes which have a slight extras you cant get for free but cant be customized much, and some weapon receivers that can still not be bought with ingame currency but can still be rented

see, those system have flaws but the flaws arent SIGNIFICANT, when it comes down to it you dont die because you didnt have the only kind of weapon that can harm the enemy, or because the enemy just happens to have a weapon that is 100% effective agaisnt you, you die because, hell you got bested, and the gear gap is not really significant

in PS2 you CAN die because you didnt have, say an AA gun (the buster is not enough, trust me), and the enemy can own ♥♥♥♥ that is specially effective agaisnt you, as infantry

[Prussian Blue]

Game is not P2W, I have unlocked a few weapons as part of bundles to kick the devs some imo deserved cash but you know what one I use? The stock TR medic gun. I suck at FPS mostly, but I am getting better, at no point have I ever felt that I got killed by a player that pays for his stuff when I would not have been killed by a total freebie player. 90% of my deaths are due to me not aiming as good as he did, or shooting after he already had a couple of bullets heading downrange. I got killed by the rocket pods that most people who argue P2W cite, but the fact of the matter is, I have also been killed by people using the stock gun on their ESFs. Don't have an AA gun? Grab a MAX suit or get a few other guys together in MAX suits and shred the air. Or jump in a fighter yourself and take'em out. Or jump on the nearest AA turret at base. If you got killed alone out in the field, you got killed because you were alone out in the field without backup, not because the other guy paid more. This game is meant to be played as part of a team effort, lone wolves will be just that, alone and out in the cold.

[Uncle Coord]

The notion that PS2 isnt an MMO is hilarious, I stopped reading there...

BTW, I will point out (again) that the current balance issues with Air to ground, and the lackluster anti-air does not constitute pay to win, and is being addressed in the next patch.

[Nuclear Kangaroo]

Ursprungligen skrivet av CreepyUncle Coord:

The notion that PS2 isnt an MMO is hilarious, I stopped reading there...

BTW, I will point out (again) that the current balance issues with Air to ground, and the lackluster anti-air does not constitute pay to win, and is being addressed in the next patch.

you mean me?

because if you mean me you probably read my entire post because i never said such thing

[Noizzzmaker]

Ursprungligen skrivet av jtiN' is throwin RICE!:

I disagree most guns cost lets says 500-700 certs I averge with out boost 150certs an hour which I don't think is bad at all So playing an 1hr-2hr's a day I'll have set gun in 2-3 days small price to pay for an upgrade.

lol 150 an hour? ur so full of ♥♥♥♥