Question about dying mechanics

[sektor_mk2]

Hello

I generally love the idea behind Planetside 2, but there is an aspect of the game that I do not fully understand.

In real combat any soldier has incentive to NOT DIE. Trying to stay alive is key to success

The idea that "death is a bad thing" is usually very well presented in games. Here are some examples I really like

1) In any team deathmatch game if I die I give a point to the enemy team. So I try my best to stay alive. A soldier with 1 kill and 0 deaths is more valuable than a soldier with 30 kills and 31 deaths.

2) In a MOBA if I die the killer gets money for better items. My death gives advantage to the enemy mathematically.

3) In a strategy game any unit costs money. If I lose a unit, I am behind with its cost. if I kill an enemy unit, I am ahead with its cost. Economical tug of war

4) In CS I have 1 life. Weapons cost money earned with kills - CS and Natural Selection for example. Killstreaks in COD reward high kill/death ratio. Permadeath in other games. In some games respawning has a long cooldown.

The common theme for all these examples is that "Death is a bad thing". Death always comes with some mathematical penalty, so the player gives his best not to die - play tactically, seek cover, make calculated risks.

QUESTION

What is the penalty for dying in Planetside 2? Is there any? Or the players are free to run around disregarding personal safety and walking like sheep in meatgrinders?

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Disclaimer 1: I am talking about infantry death, I know that vehicles cost resources.
Disclaimer 2: Dying and respawing without penalty at the closest respawn point does not count.

[Mexiguy]

Since PS2 battles are usually about numbers getting killed means that you'll team will be at disadvantage, reducing the chances of success of the push/defense.

[sektor_mk2]

I covered that in disclaimer 2 - that is just not enough, at least not for me to be immersed in the action. Is there something else?

[Mexiguy]

You should remove the CTF exaple then, since it's pretty much the same thing.

[Bushman82]

its in the lore as far as i know that death has no penalty. im not a ps1 vet so i could be wrong but the war is never ending and the soldiers are like clones that spawn straight after they die.

the war has been going on so long that the troops forgot why they fight.

[Basho]

well, dying gives your enemy on average 100xp, and 250xp equals 1 cert point. so in regards to example #2 you are in fact making your enemy stronger by dying, even more so in a vehicle.

in example #3, dying in a MAX suit or while trying to plant C4 will make those infantry resources and cooldown timers wasted.

and in regards to disclaimer #2, in PS2 the nearest spawn point can actually be well outside combat range, so dying and not having a spawn point at hand in the current AO will mean you loose the battle. a prominent example is blwing up hostile sunderers that are attacking a base. you can see the sector population go from 75% enemy, dropping down to under 50% and finally vanishing entirely if you knock out all their sunderers. by that point, dying will make the attacker loose the battle, without question.

example #1 doesn't really apply as PS2 centers around capturing bases, so i would have to refer to the above paragraph again in this case.

another important aspect of dying, at least in how i play the game, is that if you try to do something sneaky and get killed before pulling it off, you will have tipped your hand and trying the same approach again may prove impossible.

bu all in all PS2 differs a bit from many other games, and i will have to agree with what Bushman82 said above.

[Zee_]

In PlanetSide you didn't want to keep dying because the more people spawning in the tubes the faster a bases energy would drain. In PlanetSide 2 they have no recharging/energy system for bases, they replaced it with resources, which only affects you.

Because of that death is meaningless to the dedicated infantry soldier (grenades and even C4 are cheap resources-wise). The only reason you would want to live longer is because you just used some resources for either a MAX, a tank or whatever so you can pull another one the second you eventually die.

If you want to know what I was talking about in regards to how PlanetSide 1 handled things like bases needing to be recharged and whatnot... its going free to play in April. I expect alot of old time players will wind up ditching PS2 (or playing it less at any rate) to go back to PS1, I know I'll be splitting my time between the two games.

[Basho]

Originally posted by Zee_:

its going free to play in April

whoa, if that is correct, i will definitely be checking it out. i really enjoy PS2 so i can't see myself switching over, but i will be spending time in PS1 also, for sure

[Tympanista]

This is something I've thought about myself. The penalty for death is dependant on how often your teammates are dying. If your team is surviving pretty well, they can lose a few people and have a medic revive them right there or they can just run back into position from a nearby spawn point. And the deathrate is dependant on the luck and skill of your team. If those two traits are lacking, the ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan.

As your teammates die more often, the penalty for death worsens. Your team gets pushed back to your sunderer, eventually being unable to defend it because at that point they are usually being swarmed with rocketfire and airborn weapons. Then, if the team is doing really bad for whatever reason, they get pushed back to their nearest base, where they are pushed back into there spawn points and can only wait for support as they try to pick off a few of the hundred enemies swarming them.

[Zee_]

Originally posted by Basho:

Originally posted by Zee_:

its going free to play in April

whoa, if that is correct, i will definitely be checking it out. i really enjoy PS2 so i can't see myself switching over, but i will be spending time in PS1 also, for sure

Yeah, like I said I won't be abandoning PS2 (it does some things better than PS1 afterall).

But PS1 had alot more of a tactical feel to it. It was a bit slower paced and the way guns are handled is rather old school (everything is cone of fire instead of recoil for instance), but for old FPS players they should feel right at home.

Editing out links and such for a new discussion. It doesn't belong here.

Sorry for the minor derail, we now return you to our regularly scheduled program.