Why is invisible insta kill knife a thing?

[Naughty Ram]

Like really? I mean, really? How does a game dev look at their planning board and go, "Yeah, lets give the invisible class a insta kill knife and two implant perks that recover you to near full hp and put you back into stealth on each kill? Oh, and also the knife attacks cool down is not even a half second.

Firstly, it takes fundamentally no skill to do this. None. All you need is just the faintest idea of the bases layout and to do 1 run in and see where the clump of dudes are held up at and just start going to town. Theres no skill, fineness, or counter play. Just run at people and click. Boom, easy 5-6 kills.

Flashlights don't help because by the time the light unstealths them at the such short range its too late. Claymores will not kill them in one shot, and turrets cannot detect them fast enough to do anything.

A jet packer c4's your ass? Shoulda brought flack jacket. You get max rushed? Bring out the c4 and sticky nades. Huge armor push? Fall back and get your own armor. But 1 sneaky boy with insane self healing, dart to give them wall hacks, invis, and friendly fire that blocks your shots? What the ♥♥♥♥?

I can handle getting blown up, insta killed around a corner, zerged. etc. But every time I die to a cheesegrater, it just makes me not want to even bother with the game anymore. You can't counter it. And doing it yourself isn't even fun because there is no challenge to it. You don't get better at doing anything by doing it. You don't grow and hone any skills. So its boring to do.

[Oku]

Because every other person on the field has a gun.

Take note of how many times you’ve been knifed by a camping cloaker compared to how many times you’ve been killed by somebody with a gun and when you realize that guns are responsible for almost 100% of your deaths, you’ll stop caring about a few knife campers here and there trying to get directives done.

Also, people do meme builds like that because of threads like this. Farming hate mail is just as much fun as farming certs for some folks in this game. I’m particularly fond of the few death threats I’ve gotten in this game.

[Scarlet]

I'm not the biggest fan of people who play this way too but like, there's a million sidearms with flashlights that can one-shot an infiltrator with a headshot, and then there's pump shotguns that can destroy any infiltrator indoors without even aiming for the head.

[Van]

Everyone has access to the one shot knife. And a gun > Knife. Be aware of your surroundings and you'll rarely die to a knife. Get knifed one time and you'll be ready for that person the next time. Not a very difficult thing to counter.

[Murgen]

I too think the insta-kill knife is cheesy. But I very seldom die to it, or see people even using it.

Probably because the tryhards who obsess over KDR have got better ways to pad their stats, and the people who like team-play choose a different playstyle.

[holtam]

If you pay attention you can hear all insta kill knifes, all have distinct noises.

[Naughty Ram]

Its not the 1v1 knife fights im talking about. Its when they run into a room full of your dudes and start vampire healing to full hp every kill while getting cloaked every kill. Friendly fire blocks your bullets since they are running into crowds that prevent you from doing lethal damage in between the full hp heals. Its extremely over powered and should not be in the game period. Having an insta kill knife is fine. Its very very rare that you can get that close. But to heal full hp every kill? Nah ♥♥♥♥ that man.

[Oku]

Originally posted by Bloodthorn:

Its not the 1v1 knife fights im talking about. Its when they run into a room full of your dudes and start vampire healing to full hp every kill while getting cloaked every kill. Friendly fire blocks your bullets since they are running into crowds that prevent you from doing lethal damage in between the full hp heals. Its extremely over powered and should not be in the game period. Having an insta kill knife is fine. Its very very rare that you can get that close. But to heal full hp every kill? Nah ♥♥♥♥ that man.

The TTK in this game is so absurdly low that full HP means nothing. If a room full of people is so tunnel visioned they don’t notice an infiltrator with a knife shanking 20 people in the back they all deserve to die and that infiltrator deserves every cert he gets.

I can get the exact same effect, but faster and safer, by ambush jetting, throwing a brick of C4 and detonating it on my way out and picking up 20 kills simultaneously.

[Naughty Ram]

Originally posted by Aarkethrix:

Originally posted by Bloodthorn:

Its not the 1v1 knife fights im talking about. Its when they run into a room full of your dudes and start vampire healing to full hp every kill while getting cloaked every kill. Friendly fire blocks your bullets since they are running into crowds that prevent you from doing lethal damage in between the full hp heals. Its extremely over powered and should not be in the game period. Having an insta kill knife is fine. Its very very rare that you can get that close. But to heal full hp every kill? Nah ♥♥♥♥ that man.

The TTK in this game is so absurdly low that full HP means nothing. If a room full of people is so tunnel visioned they don’t notice an infiltrator with a knife shanking 20 people in the back they all deserve to die and that infiltrator deserves every cert he gets.

I can get the exact same effect, but faster and safer, by ambush jetting, throwing a brick of C4 and detonating it on my way out and picking up 20 kills simultaneously.

Again I recommend you to actually read what I said. You cannot kill them while they are in a pack of dudes. Your allies physical hitboxes will protect him from your fire as he runs around. Yes you will gun him down eventually, but it should not be an easy free 7+ kills every time he spawns. And again, as I said before, you can take flak jacket for c4, or set up an engi turret to stop the c4 spam.

[Oku]

Originally posted by Bloodthorn:

Originally posted by Aarkethrix:

The TTK in this game is so absurdly low that full HP means nothing. If a room full of people is so tunnel visioned they don’t notice an infiltrator with a knife shanking 20 people in the back they all deserve to die and that infiltrator deserves every cert he gets.

I can get the exact same effect, but faster and safer, by ambush jetting, throwing a brick of C4 and detonating it on my way out and picking up 20 kills simultaneously.

Again I recommend you to actually read what I said. You cannot kill them while they are in a pack of dudes. Your allies physical hitboxes will protect him from your fire as he runs around. Yes you will gun him down eventually, but it should not be an easy free 7+ kills every time he spawns. And again, as I said before, you can take flak jacket for c4, or set up an engi turret to stop the c4 spam.

And you can set up motion trackers and AP mines and have people watching flanks to stop the knife spam.

Getting in to an utterly unprepared and vulnerable group to do your best Jason Impression is just as if not more difficult than getting in to an utterly unprepared and vulnerable group to do your best ISIS impression.

[TripSin]

Originally posted by Murgen:

I too think the insta-kill knife is cheesy. But I very seldom die to it, or see people even using it.

Because it's not effective. It's very difficult to get knife kills in a game where people have guns and are almost always running around (except for noobs maybe sometimes). It's just a meme gimmick as far as I'm aware that I think noobs falsely believe is OP - I thought the same thing when I was new and now know better after having tried it myself.

[Miku]

Sure an invisble knife wielder is annoying and tends to stab you to death when you are alone or in the odd moment when the whole room is busy with taking down a max or a stopping a push.

Knife cloaking works only in a few cases:
-players that move to far from the main group
-players who do not pay attention to their surroundings (tunnel vision)
-players standing at a terminal
-in small fights
-in large bases with low population

What to do:
-pay attention
-get on the high ground
-pay attention
-a shotgun with a flashlight works pretty well
-lay a mine or two at nearby doors or premtively shoot vantage points or corners

Basically all you need to do is let them know that someone pays attention to them. This is usually enough to make most of them leave, since they heavily depend on other players being unaware of them. Usually the whole clearing out rooms without any resistance works only once, had this happen yesterday. Some guy came in with a knife from behind and stabbed 3 people. He returned 4 times and killed 0 each time.
Why? People knew they had to watch their backs now. Someone placed a mine on the door and others put their spitfires near the same door. Everytime the knife boy decloaked the room got a nice alert followed by kill notification. On the plus side, no enemy LA was able to flank us through the same door.

Btw it helps to be NC, teamkills count less :P

[WiggleTheKobold]

the knife is SUPAH OP, but also well we are looking into it how about we remove all bolt-action snipers that can oneshot from 400M+

i can be killed by someone so far away they're pretty much not even on my screen.

super unfair, my handgun only 20 yard combats are being ruined by snipers.

[Impurethinker]

As a dedicated knifey boi, I do it for the lulz, clearly. KDR is not a consideration and if knives were over powered, well clearly you would see more people running dedicated knife builds. But you don't. Because sure, depending on lag and what not (lag ruins power knifing because the hit registration is garbage, affects way more than quick knifing) you can do decent-ish. Like at least break even on KDR and when you are hot you can do pretty good at 2-4 kdr over time. Depends at the fights you are picking and the server lag.

I so just "okay" [re: kdr] with Lumine edge, carapace, atheletics and adrenaline pump, max level medkits (more useful for stalker cloak and carapace, you can top off after a couple of instant uses and then re-cloak), and even then you have to had a dedicated amount time into it to get the flow and timing right.

A good beserker knife build never runs vampire because as was pointed out, the TTK is stupidly low if you are found out, no point in vampire. If you are being a sneaky beeky type of knifer boi with stalker cloaking and just waiting for a lone guy to show up, maybe the vampire will work out, but your XP gain and overall average kills per session will go through the floor.

It's better IMHO, to really charge in, wait for a moment where you can flank a group, and hard charge in, pop an EMP (remember, carapace, you got no sheild!) start slicing. Also better for your team. You can target medics and engies, or other high value targets, sow chaos in the enemy flanks, cap weakly guarded points, hack terms, destroy spawn beacons, and provide intel with all the darts and spotting you should be doing. Which is to say, you are doing far more for your team than snipey boi up on the hill is.

If you want to talk OP or whatever, running a SMG is clearly better as an infiltrator.

[TioRast]

One time i was getting killed by some guy doing that after two times he kill me i suprise him with a pump shotgun and was like,damn that was easy...