Streets of Rogue 2

Streets of Rogue 2

Exodium Oct 14, 2024 @ 6:33pm
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I was right about the state of the game
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2165810/discussions/0/4853281214108802424/

Welp... I can't say I'm not disappointed but at this point I'm pretty over it. Playing a decent amount of the "Alpha demo" has shown me that we were not communicated with properly on what state the game itself is in and its pretty absurd.

"Hey all! We recently announced that we’d be dropping a demo for Streets of Rogue 2 for Steam Next Fest. But in the end I decided against it – Came to the conclusion that the game needs a bit more time to bake before I release anything."
May 30th, 2024
"The ETA for the future Playtest is late August / early September."
July 18th, 2024
" Streets of Rogue 2 is moving from its original release date of August 14th to a new release date of October 22nd."
July 18th, 2024
"So at the moment, I can't give an exact date. But stay tuned, things are progressing! You'll get to play this thing soon"
September 26th, 2024

And anything after that was radio silence for 2 weeks with people being assured that the release date of October 22nd would not be changed

lo and behold after being assured that this was the final release date and the playtest wont be cancelled the date is now set to an unknown time just Q4 of this year.

Now my positives for the demo are

- This feels extremely similar to the first game whilst having a much more open ended gameplay and overall the foundation feels awesome to play

- The world feels good to explore! I really like the car system and even without cars it doesnt take long to get from point A to point B

- Cop and slave master being put into a single class feels neat, however not being able to get people to give us their in-hand items is kind of weird as I do not want a supergoon blasting my head off if he decides "MUTINYYYY"

- Building is simple and clean, glad we didn't over complicate the system here, cant wait to see what more is added to it!

My negatives for the demo are

- The overwhelming amount of missing features that should just... be there? I understand this is a demo so we do not get access to all the content right off the bat but even something simple like a goodie dispenser doesn't work. Theres also a wood type that is missing textures that just seems like something that would be done before the demo no?

- The choices of class in the demo are pretty poor choices in my opinion, I really like the cop because he is a class that has a unique take on tackling certain aspects of gameplay, like quest completion and great starting items to boot. the problem I have here is we should have gotten 1 combat oriented class, 1 stealth related class and 1 social class as for us to test out the gameplay of each and how they mesh with the world

- this is the main thing that concerns me about this demo, the lack (to put it lightly) of perks is pretty astonishing to be honest, like I understand we may be playing on an older build but the build we do have feels like a v1.0 of an alpha in terms of perk availability, like I'm not sure if this is clarified anywhere at all but theres an absurd amount of pretty simplistic perks (like more xp for melee kills) that are just unavailable...? I'm not sure how this game was slated to come out on the 22nd in this state and its unfortunately the current build we're on feels like a playtest 6 months out from release

- trying to order companions around to indoor locations often breaks their pathing making them often continually walk into walls and they will try as hard as possible to not help you in combat, its pretty frustrating how much this shines through when you are trying to use people you've arrested as bombs and they just cant follow a simple instruction

In conclusion I really like the foundation of what we got here it feels like what streets of rogue 2 should feel like! Unfortunately a lot of things in this build of the game that we were given doesn't feel like the demo or the game itself was in the oven long enough and this last delay was the straw that broke the camels back, come out in 2026 if you must cause I don't want matt to be crunching like crazy and trying to make promises that he can't keep. I'm pretty over being excited about the game coming out I guess if it drops in 2024 it drops but I have my doubts

I would like to ask the community what do you guys think? positive or negative I would to hear it in this thread.
Last edited by Exodium; Oct 14, 2024 @ 6:36pm
Originally posted by Madguy:
There's a lot I could respond to here, but to quell some concerns people have:

- My strategy to this point in development has been to ensure that the underlying core of the game is solid and functions as expected without too many nasty bugs. My impression from demo feedback is that I've pretty much reached this point. There are certainly plenty of bugs, but not much in the way of true game-breakers, and more in the "jank" category. Many of the bugs that people have reported can be easily fixed. I've been mostly out of commission for a couple of days (due to getting violently sick as a result of the push to get this demo out :p ) but you're going to start seeing a pretty extensive series of fixes in the near future.
- In addition to getting the lower-level systems in good shape, another priority of mine has been to set things up so that it's very easy for me to add new content to the game. One area that's recently gotten a lot of attention is the quests system. There's still some kinks to work out there, and you've probably run into some related issues in the demo, but it's becoming possible to do some really cool stuff in making unique quests really easily. The "chicken island" thing was added in about 15 minutes.
- Anything balance-related is what I would consider "the fun part" of development. I've mostly not been touching this area of the game, in favor of ensuring that the core systems are working.
- The reason the Skill Tree and related skills/abilities have not taken priority at this point is because those are comparatively not difficult to add, compared with other systems that are specific to SOR2. The codebase for that portion of the game is very solid thanks to its being battle-tested in SOR1. Getting these up and running falls more into the the gameplay/balance side of things.
- There is plenty more content that's been developed (or partially developed) that hasn't been integrated into the demo builds (yes, even if you cheat to get off the island!).
- A good deal of work has been done on the game's progression system, but most of this was cut from the demo, as it wasn't quite ready for primetime yet and wouldn't have fit well within the demo's small scope.

Regarding release dates: I'll say this, I have a tendency to think I can get more done in a given timespan than is actually feasible.

What tends to happen is I say "OK, here's my list of tasks". I start on a task, run into some other related issue, and spend some time cleaning up/fixing that issue, because it's more efficient to do it then while that portion of the code is fresh in my head. Bugs in particular can often be very important to fix as soon as they turn up, since given the randomized nature of the game they can be difficult to reproduce. And all of a sudden I've gotten a lot fewer of those initial tasks done than I was hoping to.

Anyways, just a bit of insight into my process, but it's not an excuse for the release date changes. Attempting to announce any sort of nearby date without a game being nearly 100% ready to go is clearly just a bad idea, and I'd consider this a learning experience. Apologies again for that, and I'm going to make certain it doesn't happen in the future.
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Showing 1-15 of 79 comments
Muu Oct 14, 2024 @ 6:53pm 
Yeah, I agree completely. I was just having a similar conversation with one of my friends. To be suggesting such an immediate release date with this many things being placeholder is shocking. I'm hoping this demo is at least a few builds behind whats currently being worked on. Some of the replies from the other developers other than Matt kind of suggest the opposite though...

In addition to everything mentioned lacking, the game runs extremely poorly for me. I get very big frame jumps, rubber-banding, and general desyncy behavior with NPCs the longer I play and the more stuff I break.

I'm still eager to buy and play the game, but I'm also confused on what's going on with the development. SoR 1 was fairly quick and steady. I get this game has a completely different set of challenges with how everything is generated and that needs to be perfected first before it can start taking off. Yet, the quality of this demo is seemingly worse than any of Matt's dev videos and trailers.
Lumidas Oct 14, 2024 @ 6:56pm 
Originally posted by Moomi:
Yeah, I agree completely. I was just having a similar conversation with one of my friends. To be suggesting such an immediate release date with this many things being placeholder is shocking. I'm hoping this demo is at least a few builds behind whats currently being worked on. Some of the replies from the other developers other than Matt kind of suggest the opposite though...

In addition to everything mentioned lacking, the game runs extremely poorly for me. I get very big frame jumps, rubber-banding, and general desyncy behavior with NPCs the longer I play and the more stuff I break.

I'm still eager to buy and play the game, but I'm also confused on what's going on with the development. SoR 1 was fairly quick and steady. I get this game has a completely different set of challenges with how everything is generated and that needs to be perfected first before it can start taking off. Yet, the quality of this demo is seemingly worse than any of Matt's dev videos and trailers.
The dev said in discord chat yesterday that the "official dev build" has a lot lot more content and more polished. But this demo he had to make a new mini-build for it. He said he will update the demo by transferring more content from the main dev build to the demo in the near future.
Muu Oct 14, 2024 @ 7:01pm 
Originally posted by Lumidas:
Originally posted by Moomi:
Yeah, I agree completely. I was just having a similar conversation with one of my friends. To be suggesting such an immediate release date with this many things being placeholder is shocking. I'm hoping this demo is at least a few builds behind whats currently being worked on. Some of the replies from the other developers other than Matt kind of suggest the opposite though...

In addition to everything mentioned lacking, the game runs extremely poorly for me. I get very big frame jumps, rubber-banding, and general desyncy behavior with NPCs the longer I play and the more stuff I break.

I'm still eager to buy and play the game, but I'm also confused on what's going on with the development. SoR 1 was fairly quick and steady. I get this game has a completely different set of challenges with how everything is generated and that needs to be perfected first before it can start taking off. Yet, the quality of this demo is seemingly worse than any of Matt's dev videos and trailers.
The dev said in discord chat yesterday that the "official dev build" has a lot lot more content and more polished. But this demo he had to make a new mini-build for it. He said he will update the demo by transferring more content from the main dev build to the demo in the near future.
Thats great to hear. Bring on the updates devs! :cozybethesda:
Exodium Oct 14, 2024 @ 7:10pm 
Originally posted by Moomi:
Yeah, I agree completely. I was just having a similar conversation with one of my friends. To be suggesting such an immediate release date with this many things being placeholder is shocking. I'm hoping this demo is at least a few builds behind whats currently being worked on. Some of the replies from the other developers other than Matt kind of suggest the opposite though...

In addition to everything mentioned lacking, the game runs extremely poorly for me. I get very big frame jumps, rubber-banding, and general desyncy behavior with NPCs the longer I play and the more stuff I break.

I'm still eager to buy and play the game, but I'm also confused on what's going on with the development. SoR 1 was fairly quick and steady. I get this game has a completely different set of challenges with how everything is generated and that needs to be perfected first before it can start taking off. Yet, the quality of this demo is seemingly worse than any of Matt's dev videos and trailers.


Originally posted by Moomi:
Yeah, I agree completely. I was just having a similar conversation with one of my friends. To be suggesting such an immediate release date with this many things being placeholder is shocking. I'm hoping this demo is at least a few builds behind whats currently being worked on. Some of the replies from the other developers other than Matt kind of suggest the opposite though...

In addition to everything mentioned lacking, the game runs extremely poorly for me. I get very big frame jumps, rubber-banding, and general desyncy behavior with NPCs the longer I play and the more stuff I break.

I'm still eager to buy and play the game, but I'm also confused on what's going on with the development. SoR 1 was fairly quick and steady. I get this game has a completely different set of challenges with how everything is generated and that needs to be perfected first before it can start taking off. Yet, the quality of this demo is seemingly worse than any of Matt's dev videos and trailers.

Yeah In my opinion matt needs to be a bit more clear with communication, I don't think that 2 weeks of radio silence into a delay was a very eloquent way to do things. I have also been having technical problems but the demo says to expect it to be really buggy, but I don't understand why if theres presumably better builds of the game this is the one we get for now
Exodium Oct 14, 2024 @ 7:10pm 
Originally posted by Lumidas:
Originally posted by Moomi:
Yeah, I agree completely. I was just having a similar conversation with one of my friends. To be suggesting such an immediate release date with this many things being placeholder is shocking. I'm hoping this demo is at least a few builds behind whats currently being worked on. Some of the replies from the other developers other than Matt kind of suggest the opposite though...

In addition to everything mentioned lacking, the game runs extremely poorly for me. I get very big frame jumps, rubber-banding, and general desyncy behavior with NPCs the longer I play and the more stuff I break.

I'm still eager to buy and play the game, but I'm also confused on what's going on with the development. SoR 1 was fairly quick and steady. I get this game has a completely different set of challenges with how everything is generated and that needs to be perfected first before it can start taking off. Yet, the quality of this demo is seemingly worse than any of Matt's dev videos and trailers.
The dev said in discord chat yesterday that the "official dev build" has a lot lot more content and more polished. But this demo he had to make a new mini-build for it. He said he will update the demo by transferring more content from the main dev build to the demo in the near future.
Very nice to know, thanks for the info!
Honor Oct 14, 2024 @ 7:49pm 
The lag makes my game almost unplayable. Please fix that.
Muu Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:49pm 
Originally posted by Honor:
The lag makes my game almost unplayable. Please fix that.
Just found out limiting my FPS to 60 in Nvidia control panel has made the game run 10x better.
Old Shoe Oct 15, 2024 @ 12:57am 
yeah tbh this being the "demo" we got is very disappointing. I would've rather have waited longer and gotten an official release in a year instead of this.

I would be much more willing to give slack if it wasn't for the radio silence and delays, if you're going to set more time aside to polish your game then don't give a date.
Dlanor Oct 15, 2024 @ 2:34am 
I feel like you were expecting too much from a demo.

Missing tree inventory textures or items not working instantly are normal. They are making a game, not just making a demo. If they stopped making the game to make only the vertical slice for the demo, that messes with workflow and delays the game even more. Getting the bigger picture stuff set up comes before trivial details like visual-only textures or a full pass of testing and bug fixes.

The demo is more than enough for you to get an idea of the game, like you said yourself the gameplay feels similar to the original in a good way and the new systems like driving and building felt good. Are you seriously implying you need to see the inventory icon of every tree variant to know if you'll enjoy the game enough to buy it when it's out?

Only V1 Alpha amount of perks? Yeah, because they want you to buy the full game to get access to the content. If too much of the full game is free, that can mess with sales.

Obviously the devs are a bit behind but that's how projects go sometimes, it's better to delay it until it's ready than release it too unfinished and have people complain.
ElysiumNight Oct 15, 2024 @ 2:39am 
idk the demo just feels lacking that other game was crazy fast pace things got hectic fast... this game just kinda feels boring to me
85303 Oct 15, 2024 @ 2:43am 
nobody seems to understand what a demo is, let alone the disclaimers all over everything.
remember what early access is? were not even there yet.

are you guys uhh... "held back"? in your thinking?
some sense of that definition...
Exodium Oct 15, 2024 @ 3:30am 
Originally posted by 85303:
nobody seems to understand what a demo is, let alone the disclaimers all over everything.
remember what early access is? were not even there yet.

are you guys uhh... "held back"? in your thinking?
some sense of that definition...
Well what did I say that seemed "held back"? Is it perhaps because I've been following this game since the announcement of its release, that I'm "held back" cause I criticize a product I love? I'm sorry you can't comprehend people are allowed to disagree with you and form their own opinions lol.

Demo is short for Demonstration, meaning you are showing off what the game that is coming out will be in the near future, it would be different if this was called a playtest because the point of a playtest is supposed to be used to provide feedback to improve both gameplay and find critical bugs.

Which this is a demo but only in name, it is an extremely delayed release of a playtest, and while I would like to say otherwise I feel like the demo so far has under-delivered for how many times the developer and community managers communicated that the game was presumably in a good enough state to present by the 22nd, again a very basic machine, the goodie dispenser from the first game doesn't even operate yet, it is literally just a machine meant to give you a random utility or combat item, basic things that you consistently see and interact with a lot during gameplay should be operational in a demo.
Exodium Oct 15, 2024 @ 4:13am 
Originally posted by Dlanor:
I feel like you were expecting too much from a demo.

Missing tree inventory textures or items not working instantly are normal. They are making a game, not just making a demo. If they stopped making the game to make only the vertical slice for the demo, that messes with workflow and delays the game even more. Getting the bigger picture stuff set up comes before trivial details like visual-only textures or a full pass of testing and bug fixes.

The demo is more than enough for you to get an idea of the game, like you said yourself the gameplay feels similar to the original in a good way and the new systems like driving and building felt good. Are you seriously implying you need to see the inventory icon of every tree variant to know if you'll enjoy the game enough to buy it when it's out?

Only V1 Alpha amount of perks? Yeah, because they want you to buy the full game to get access to the content. If too much of the full game is free, that can mess with sales.

Obviously the devs are a bit behind but that's how projects go sometimes, it's better to delay it until it's ready than release it too unfinished and have people complain.

I would disagree but I see why you see things the way you do.

The thing is though is that I have seen a moderator say the demo IS its own branch I quote "BonzaiBier — 09/18/2024 2:50 PM
the playtest is a different branch than the real game. so you cannot start it after the playtest"

And This is what Matt the developer has said "At this point in development, I’d consider the game to be a lot closer to being Early Access-ready, as the game’s foundations are pretty solid. However, polish is still needed in order to bring the core game loop and progression system to where they need to be"

He said this just yesterday and reiterated this sentiment multiple times, my issue with this is that this demo isn't just rough, the amount of things that are not available is pretty damn worrying, Like I'm not saying give us every single class and perk in the demo but even very basic, non game changing perks like giving you more melee xp or not even the first few perks in a majority of skill trees can be picked. The wood texture was just an example its obviously not the most game changing thing in the world but since this game is being built off the first game (to my knowledge) a machine that is extremely simple in nature and that hes already coded before isn't available I think is a valid point.

As for the release date I'm not rushing it, In my previous post I linked at the top of this thread I WANTED the game to just go back to TBA for the release time, because whenever matt has given us Estimations or times where we should look forward to it is always met by another delay or estimation. or this most recent occasion 2+ weeks of radio silence to announce a delay. I don't think its at all unreasonable for these reasons to be frustrated with this demo.

And because this is a pseudo-playtest I would argue it is all the more reason to provide more content (specifically perks, keep us restrained to a small place) in this demo because by the time the game releases there will be so many untested ability and perk combinations that could be extremely buggy or crash the game, I'm hoping that isn't the case but its a lot more likely than 0.

Thanks for engaging with the thread!
Evo 11414 Oct 15, 2024 @ 5:24am 
I don't want to include too much detail as I doubt Matt would want that, but the demo has a lot of features purposefully not included, likely due to not being fully ready or wanting to make sure the full game provides enough content.

While the demo restricts using many classes they are actually in the game and playable to some extent, the map generation and skills and more are all currently limited to a playtest flag.

I agree with what you said about the cop and items though, hopefully that gets added.
Exodium Oct 15, 2024 @ 6:53am 
Originally posted by Evo 11414:
I don't want to include too much detail as I doubt Matt would want that, but the demo has a lot of features purposefully not included, likely due to not being fully ready or wanting to make sure the full game provides enough content.

While the demo restricts using many classes they are actually in the game and playable to some extent, the map generation and skills and more are all currently limited to a playtest flag.

I agree with what you said about the cop and items though, hopefully that gets added.
I saw some of this in the discord, looked really neat but I'm hoping that the first update to the demo gives us a little bit more of that content to test out, even if it's just like 1 or 2 characters. I'm really interested in the animal skill tree can't wait to try that out when it's available!
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