How's the PVP?

[Lapinoire]

From my experience(or lack thereof), the PVP has been pretty seamless-- a hit is actually a hit, and that in itself is impressive to me.

In other games, namely Elsword, hitting someone doesn't necessarily mean a hit, because they can just casually walk out of your attacks if they lag hard enough, or even interrupt you in the middle of your combo.

Having had some experience fighting every character, excluding Nata, I think that the game's fun enough to invest into PVP haha....(i'll probably eat those words down the line).

Who's the character that everyone just generally hates fighting against? And who's considered low/bottom-tier? I'd prefer using low-tier characters for PVP because it just feels that much more satisfying when you win.

Also, is Yuri annoying to fight? In my brief experience fighting her, her damage just seemed so much higher than all the other characters, and her area coverage both on X and Y axis was high enough that it was actually legitimately annoying.

[Matchumi]

from what i had played only very few on the pvp aspect ranged or characters with alot of gap closers have pretty good edge in fights. namely tina and yuri but if you know your combos i think all charcters are pretty good

[Lapinoire]

So I quickly learned that:
1) No one queues for PVP in Rookie Bracket
2) Those who do queue up are either genuinely new(like me), or people who stay at 49 to farm genuinely new players.

I guess this is why you don't see people queueing up in Rookie Bracket because of scum that do this sort of stuff.

How am I supposed to learn how to PVP when only jerks show up on queue? Am I just trying to pvp at the wrong times? I'm sure it's lack of experience, but still, running into someone that's PVP level 42 in Rookie Bracket, clearly staying at character level 49 to take advantage of it is just really.... really petty.

[Waryth]

There's nothing wrong in the Rookie League bracket. PvP is mostly about geared players and experienced players. You need to learn every ins and out of PvP before you call things unfair.

One thing that's pretty obnoxious is how someone judge something without any experience especially if they haven't finished the game. I'm talking about being rational here since majority of the players complain when they have no idea on what they're doing.

Rookie League starts from level 20 to level 49 while the UNION Arena goes up to 50 til the level cap. The level cap right now is at level 75 however it'll be changed later on. It doesn't matter if you're geared or not because if you're already a skilled player..(someone who has already reached the end game and played with another character) You can easily smurf your way in and make endless combo without needing proper gear and a 2nd promotion.

PvP is still in BETA and unlike in Closers KR, they do have a better balance compared to what we have now. All characters have some nerf to change a little bit of PvP combat and expect that we'll get them soon.

Nobody will queue in PvP at all times. Its near impossible to find one at an exact date until you beg for someone to play with you just like squadding up in PvE. Don't forget about POWER HOUR where you earn rewards even when you lose so check the schedule of power hour in the game guides. Many players play PvP at this time of hours.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

In other games, namely Elsword, hitting someone doesn't necessarily mean a hit, because they can just casually walk out of your attacks if they lag hard enough, or even interrupt you in the middle of your combo.

It also applies the same here in Closers.. probably its just that you haven't encounter anyone who has a very awful connection. There are also skills in this game that is called Super Armor skills which allows you to maneuver while attacking making you immune from damage until the Super Armor skill duration ends. The only way to counter them is by using finishing move that is capable of crashing Super Armor.

There are skills capable of doing grab, super armor and restand. You just need to figure out which skill is which. (Read every skill in your skillbar to figure it out.) Not all characters get those kind of skills during 1st promotion this is why they wait for their 2nd promotion to have a full set of skill and have higher chance of doing endless combo. This is why some stopped levelling til level 49 because they're too late to experience PvP. They're also trying to farm their PvP level til level 50 and master their combo til they are perfected for UNION Arena.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

How am I supposed to learn how to PVP when only jerks show up on queue? Am I just trying to pvp at the wrong times? I'm sure it's lack of experience, but still, running into someone that's PVP level 42 in Rookie Bracket, clearly staying at character level 49 to take advantage of it is just really.... really petty.

You're not supposed to learn things from the actual battlefield. Seriously, this is what training and practice are for and do NOT practice in ranked games.

You can casually PvP with friends of the same level as yours for starters. Its more easy this way and family friendly since you can't cry out and say "unfair". Requesting a match with your friends doesn't count to your stats. Another thing in PvP is that you shouldn't feel empathy towards your enemy. They have the same goal as you and if you play easy on your opponent then that's just you wasting time and not helping yourself nor the opponent since neither you'll improve so will your opponent. Giving them free wins streak will just be taken out by someone else later on.

Regarding about hit reg, they're not 100% accurate. Whoever casts the skill the fastest will be in the lead for combo while the one loses will be forever stunned until the combo ends. Cancel skill exist for this reason to break their combo at your own risk.

[Lapinoire]

Originally posted by Waryth:

You're not supposed to learn things from the actual battlefield. Seriously, this is what training and practice are for and do NOT practice in ranked games.

That's how literally every other pvp game under the sun has done it, so it's surprising to see it happen here. Besides, "practice" matches only go so far in comparison to actual combat.

Originally posted by Waryth:

You can casually PvP with friends of the same level as yours for starters. Its more easy this way and family friendly since you can't cry out and say "unfair".

"casually PVP" doesn't really denote much in the ways of learning how to actually combo, because if you're just "casually pvping" with friends, chances are both of you don't know what the hell is happening.

Also, I hadn't said anything was unfair: in fact, quite the opposite. I find certain moves annoying, but there are definitely ways to get around them.
What I was complaining about was the difference in experience and the fact that people stay in Rookie bracket just for the hell of it.

Originally posted by Waryth:

Requesting a match with your friends doesn't count to your stats.

Already knew that.

Originally posted by Waryth:

Another thing in PvP is that you shouldn't feel empathy towards your enemy. They have the same goal as you and if you play easy on your opponent then that's just you wasting time and not helping yourself nor the opponent since neither you'll improve so will your opponent. Giving them free wins streak will just be taken out by someone else later on.

Not much to say here, really. I'm not giving someone win streaks because I want to, i'm just surprised at how dead the queue really is. Running into the same person 3-5 times isn't exactly the arena experience I was hoping to get.

Originally posted by Waryth:

Regarding about hit reg, they're not 100% accurate. Whoever casts the skill the fastest will be in the lead for combo while the one loses will be forever stunned until the combo ends. Cancel skill exist for this reason to break their combo at your own risk.

I figured that the hits and skills worked that way.

None of this matters at the end of the day, anyway, because i'm probably just going to dismiss pvp on this game for a good, long while.

[Waryth]

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

"casually PVP" doesn't really denote much in the ways of learning how to actually combo, because if you're just "casually pvping" with friends, chances are both of you don't know what the hell is happening.

Also, I hadn't said anything was unfair: in fact, quite the opposite. I find certain moves annoying, but there are definitely ways to get around them.
What I was complaining about was the difference in experience and the fact that people stay in Rookie bracket just for the hell of it.

Isn't that what you were complaining about and the way you sound like is being annoyed of how unfair it is?

You don't just casually PvP with friends but also your crewmates only if you have a crew. Hmm, so far judging at your statement, it seems that you have no friends who have done end game and made a new character that is near or equal of the same level as your character.

Originally posted by Waryth:

Another thing in PvP is that you shouldn't feel empathy towards your enemy. They have the same goal as you and if you play easy on your opponent then that's just you wasting time and not helping yourself nor the opponent since neither you'll improve so will your opponent. Giving them free wins streak will just be taken out by someone else later on.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

Not much to say here, really. I'm not giving someone win streaks because I want to, i'm just surprised at how dead the queue really is. Running into the same person 3-5 times isn't exactly the arena experience I was hoping to get.

I didn't mentioned this for nothing. I'm talking about the view of the other players who are way superior than you every aspects. Majority of the time, the one you get queued is the one you just fought last match since both of you requeued at the same time after it. Its already self explanatory for a retry or more like.. rematch. There are many ways to prevent a rematch for playing PvE after a PvP match then back to PvP once again to add a gap between your previous opponent.

Originally posted by Waryth:

Regarding about hit reg, they're not 100% accurate. Whoever casts the skill the fastest will be in the lead for combo while the one loses will be forever stunned until the combo ends. Cancel skill exist for this reason to break their combo at your own risk.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

I figured that the hits and skills worked that way.

None of this matters at the end of the day, anyway, because i'm probably just going to dismiss pvp on this game for a good, long while.

In UNION Arena, someone else will be twice as faster than you to almost nullify every attacks. Once you get a hang of it later on, you should be able to be par with them.

I'll be answering the rest of your questions now since my first post was mostly about PvP in general.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

Who's the character that everyone just generally hates fighting against?

This answer will mostly comes from me and the opinions that I've gathered from my crew members and it'll be in order. There's going to be more than 1 answer and not everyone will agree especially if you main one of the characters I've mentioned.

• #1 Yuri Seo
  She's the very popular character amongst all and even the game is biased for her by one of the tips saying "Tips: Yuri is the best!". She has plenty of dash skills that can easily be executed fast in a combo when done properly dealing massive damage along with her range skills
  
  
• #2 Levia
  Huge AoE radius for her finishing moves and her skills are casted in any position the player wanted giving more options and those short teleportation skills may sometimes catch you off guard. Her super armor skill is also way spread out and she has a skill that allows skill cooldown.
  
  
• #3 Nata
  You'll usually see Nata mains flying like spiderman zipping lines from one position to another and then instantly casts his finishing moves without any animation similar to Goku. He may be powerful as a super saiyan but he's actually just a Closer Agent armed similar to a 3D Maneuver Gear from AoT/SnK.
  
  
• #4 Tina
  Her basic attack is just firing a gun which can stun you far away and have special grenades that can be thrown far away like a mortar. You can easily swipe off the arena with her range attacks and her specialty is anti-air to take down witches in the sky and possibly spiderman?
  
  
• #5 J
  This character has a lot of grabs and mostly a CQC character. If you're always within his range then there's less chances you can get out without getting a scratch. Many players dislikes him especially if your character is mostly a sword wielder like Seha and Yuri.
  
  Seha should be part of this list but he's been nerfed compared to his PvE skills and the coming future update will nerf him even more so I put him out of the list.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

who's considered low/bottom-tier? I'd prefer using low-tier characters for PVP because it just feels that much more satisfying when you win.

The bottom-tier in PvP will mostly be Sylvi/Seulbi which is the one I'm maining right now. I understand why you want to play the underdog but I'm not playing her for the same reason since she's the best girl in my case.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

Also, is Yuri annoying to fight? In my brief experience fighting her, her damage just seemed so much higher than all the other characters, and her area coverage both on X and Y axis was high enough that it was actually legitimately annoying.

She both uses PSI and Physical power and both of those stacks dealing more damage. (No wonder she's the best? beast?)

Its also possible that the Yuri user you're fighting is well geared.

[Lapinoire]

Well, that was very informative.

I'm surprised there was no comment(s) on Misteltein, though.

I'll probably give PVP another shot down the road, anyway, but at least I have a very general idea of what to look out for. Thanks, I guess.

[Falcus]

My biggest problem with it is the level 49 thing. You can defend that all you want and state it's someone playing smart, but it completely defeats the purpose of that queue. That queue is to introduce people to PvP. Not for people who are already experienced in the game to simply farm new players for easy wins.

Other than that though it seems like it could be good.

[Lapinoire]

I finally encountered people with lag.
It was pretty wild seeing people standing still for like 3-5 seconds then lagwarping somewhere else.

Also yeah, what Falcus said. There's no defending smurfing.

[Waryth]

Originally posted by Falcus:

My biggest problem with it is the level 49 thing. You can defend that all you want and state it's someone playing smart, but it completely defeats the purpose of that queue. That queue is to introduce people to PvP. Not for people who are already experienced in the game to simply farm new players for easy wins.

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

Also yeah, what Falcus said. There's no defending smurfing.

I'm not in anyway siding or defending the smurfing ideology. Once you get past level 49 and proceed with UNION Arena as Level 50, you'll automatically be faced with Level 50+ players which means you'll be facing majority of the end game players which are capped at level 75 as of this post. It'll be the same all over again and do another rant how unbalanced the PvP is all about.

I myself is also against this but this is how the game works and how it should be played. It all gets down to "get good" scenario. The choices you have now is either leave PvP alone and quit PvP entirely. It'll take time for the PvP updates and nerf to show up in our version of Closers. If you begin learning right now then you'll just master the mechanics sooner or later and the later PvP mechanics will even increase your chances of winning because of how experienced you are.

The level 20 PvP introduction is not meant for new beginners. Incase you're a beginner and you joined in once and lost then there's no way its the game's fault as of how unexperienced you are of participating a ranked matched while being undergeared, not having 2nd promotion, outlevelled, and not knowing the basics of PvP. Its meant for end game players to try out new characters and head to PvP with their new characters and figure out new combos with it.

You can do what they do by capping to level 49 and try to dominate the Rookie League. There's one thing you're wrong about because its not all about the level. Someone else below your level but is above your skill will dethrone you and get rid of your winstreaks.

Joining a ranked matched as a newbie is a stupid move and the game isn't to be blamed. The game will eventually force you to participate PvP via community events and its a requirement to at least get a 1 win in PvP a day til the event ends. Once the event is finished and you redeemed the code but didn't participate, your code will be rejected. Its because you didn't participated the event due to the reason of ditching PvP completely.

This means that you don't deserve a damn thing in the community event for the sole reason of hating PvP because of its unbalance. The balance update is far away and all you can do is get good til the balance update comes in. Its for your own sake as well.

https://closers.enmasse.com/news/posts/closers-together-community-launch-event

There's going to be an upcoming community event similar to the event above. Event requirements may change but PvPing is definitely going to be part of that requirement.

[Lapinoire]

Except what if someone doesn't have friends online when playing? Our only option is to either skulk around hubs begging for a PVP or to queue up for PVP.

There's no sparring or pvp room like there is in Elsword, so for the people who are attracted to PVP and want to get into it right away, their only option is the "ranked" pvp system(which isn't even a ranked thing unless you care about leaderboards).

You keep saying that it's all about "GETTING GOOD" and crap, but in return i'll keep saying "How are we supposed to get good without means of easy access to PVP?

I'm winning half my fights now, since I picked up how to use my character in PVE, and it just transferred over to PVP, but i'd still like PVP to be more populated, so it'd be easier to gain practical combat experience.

Also...

Originally posted by Waryth:

I The level 20 PvP introduction is not meant for new beginners. Incase you're a beginner and you joined in once and lost then there's no way its the game's fault as of how unexperienced you are of participating a ranked matched while being undergeared, not having 2nd promotion, outlevelled, and not knowing the basics of PvP. Its meant for end game players to try out new characters and head to PvP with their new characters and figure out new combos with it.

You can do what they do by capping to level 49 and try to dominate the Rookie League. There's one thing you're wrong about because its not all about the level. Someone else below your level but is above your skill will dethrone you and get rid of your winstreaks.

Joining a ranked matched as a newbie is a stupid move and the game isn't to be blamed

If the "20 PvP introduction is not meant for new beginners", why did the developers call it, hm, I don't know... ROOKIE LEAGUE?

You can keep saying that it's not meant for beginners, but that's just backwards logic. If Rookie League was not meant for beginners, they wouldn't allow you to PVP at all until you hit, say, 70-75.

I'm still grateful for the tips you gave, but I just really do not agree with your opinion.