"Beginner friendly"?

[Eglaios]

Maybe it wasn't meant for beginners, but we're talking about a FG that's new, is quite alive and has a free version.
If anything and with Riot's fighter coming soon, that's a perfect occasion to introduce the genre to lots of new people

But if anything, "beginner friendly" is not what I'd say of such game.

• Near-zero assistance for newbies. It's like throwing every musical concept at you then "aight get that in your skull, tell me when ur ready I'll match you against Beethoven".
  It's 2023, other than ultra-basic ones (FOOTSIES), not a single fighting game could pretend being beginner friendly. I yet have to find one that teaches the player to learn everything and know how to use all the options together by progressively unlocking moves and introducing scenarios with multiple ones involved at once rather than throwing everything separately.
  
  
• The backseat loli at the end of each fight is the definition of "useless". Fine players know how to play, and it is nothing but annoying for a nub.
  Simplified inputs aren't what I'd call beginner friendly neither. It's like getting a better music software ; nice, but you'll wanna know how to write music first.
  
  
• The tuto is way worse than the prequel, which was already quite bad while being one of the best of the genre.
  
  
• Even hellish bots (highest level) are far from every single fight I got in green-gem ranked ("I know a bit about fighting games" and lower).

It's not like no beginner content makes this game bad, it's just that still today, nearly every fighting game (hi footsies) beginner experience will be "get rekt for 10s of hours before eventually understanding the stuff".

In the eyes of a new player, is it worth not getting humiliated for that long without even knowing whether it's gonna be enjoyable once all the work paid off, and often not even knowing what to do to actually get better?
Why not just picking up some other game that will provide quick fun without such a long struggle?


I mean it's 2023, the gaming industry met psychology since quite some time (just look at live service marketting tricks), and fighting games themselves are about understanding and predicting the opponent, yet the newbie experience as always is "Welcome, you're gonna get stomped for a long time without ever getting rewarded, before you even know whether you like it. Here's the pdf manual, but you'll wanna check online anyways since the tradition forbid us to include frame data and character strategies in the game"

Am I raging? Of course. I do wanna love fighting games, but each time I give it a try, it burps in my powerless face because "git gud" and doesn't encourage in any way to stick on it, then I drop off once again.

[TheLoneOwl]

Publicado originalmente por Eglaios:

Maybe it wasn't meant for beginners, but we're talking about a FG that's new, is quite alive and has a free version.
If anything and with Riot's fighter coming soon, that's a perfect occasion to introduce the genre to lots of new people

But if anything, "beginner friendly" is not what I'd say of such game.

• Near-zero assistance for newbies. It's like throwing every musical concept at you then "aight get that in your skull, tell me when ur ready I'll match you against Beethoven".
  It's 2023, other than ultra-basic ones (FOOTSIES), not a single fighting game could pretend being beginner friendly. I yet have to find one that teaches the player to learn everything and know how to use all the options together by progressively unlocking moves and introducing scenarios with multiple ones involved at once rather than throwing everything separately.
  
  
• The backseat loli at the end of each fight is the definition of "useless". Fine players know how to play, and it is nothing but annoying for a nub.
  Simplified inputs aren't what I'd call beginner friendly neither. It's like getting a better music software ; nice, but you'll wanna know how to write music first.
  
  
• The tuto is way worse than the prequel, which was already quite bad while being one of the best of the genre.
  
  
• Even hellish bots (highest level) are far from every single fight I got in green-gem ranked ("I know a bit about fighting games" and lower).

It's not like no beginner content makes this game bad, it's just that still today, nearly every fighting game (hi footsies) beginner experience will be "get rekt for 10s of hours before eventually understanding the stuff".

In the eyes of a new player, is it worth not getting humiliated for that long without even knowing whether it's gonna be enjoyable once all the work paid off, and often not even knowing what to do to actually get better?
Why not just picking up some other game that will provide quick fun without such a long struggle?


I mean it's 2023, the gaming industry met psychology since quite some time (just look at live service marketting tricks), and fighting games themselves are about understanding and predicting the opponent, yet the newbie experience as always is "Welcome, you're gonna get stomped for a long time without ever getting rewarded, before you even know whether you like it. Here's the pdf manual, but you'll wanna check online anyways since the tradition forbid us to include frame data and character strategies in the game"

Am I raging? Of course. I do wanna love fighting games, but each time I give it a try, it burps in my powerless face because "git gud" and doesn't encourage in any way to stick on it, then I drop off once again.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of the things you just said.
I suck at fighting games, but this is the only one where I managed to reach a very high rank (after losing like 30 games in a row) in just 30-40 hours of playing (Including Beta), that means that either I became a pro overnight, or that the game is very accessible.

-The tutorial is very well made and covers all the concept you need to learn how to play.

-You can change the "backseat loli" and put Soriz instead, now you have a gigachad supporting you, solved.

-This is by far one of the easiest fighting game I've played, really you can learn an optimized combo in 30 minutes of practice, spam that and just win matches online.
You can't connect the combo because you suck?
That's normal! everybody started from zero. Learn where you make mistakes, focus on small steps.
Do you punish anti-air? Do you know which safe options leave you with frame advantage? Do you use wisely your blue crystal without spending all the match taking double damage?
Fighting games are complicated in general and require a bit of time investment in order to understand things.

If you really love the genre take your time and play for fun, play to improve, and results will surely come.


EDIT: I also forgot this game let you DP with one button only, and special with two buttons; even the technical "difficulty" of making hard inputs has been removed to be beginner friendly, and there is no drawback on using them in combos.

[Cipher Esteria]

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

Game is crap. It got to the point where the average rank S nerd is getting 30 hit combos from a single conversion. Dead game. NO GAME EVER works like that, This is the point where every single game dies. Most people don't want to have to memorize 30 hits combo to stay competitive.

Blazblue Series
Guilty Gear Series (pre Strive)
Marvel vs Capcom
Melty Blood (old one)
Multiple SF Titels
Tekken to some extend

I am sure there are much more, but thats just from the top of my head.

[Bigamo]

Publicado originalmente por Mr.Cipher:

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

Game is crap. It got to the point where the average rank S nerd is getting 30 hit combos from a single conversion. Dead game. NO GAME EVER works like that, This is the point where every single game dies. Most people don't want to have to memorize 30 hits combo to stay competitive.

Blazblue Series
Guilty Gear Series (pre Strive)
Marvel vs Capcom
Melty Blood (old one)
Multiple SF Titels
Tekken to some extend

I am sure there are much more, but thats just from the top of my head.

All small niche games with the exception of the 2 you mentioned and were NOT true, no SF or Tekken goes over 10 hit combo without counting multiple hits of the same skill as a "Hit".

Blazblue is forgotten and never was a huge hit.
Guilt Gear proves my point as it became mainstream and a huge finantial success in strive as it shortenned the combos.
Marvel vs Capcom was a huge arcade success and now is played only by those handfull of guys that actually like infinite combos.
Melty Blood is not even close of being a huge game.

The 2 huge successes of today are games with shortened combos, Strive And SF VI.

[Training Mode]

Publicado originalmente por Eglaios:

Maybe it wasn't meant for beginners, but we're talking about a FG that's new, is quite alive and has a free version.
If anything and with Riot's fighter coming soon, that's a perfect occasion to introduce the genre to lots of new people

But if anything, "beginner friendly" is not what I'd say of such game.

• Near-zero assistance for newbies. It's like throwing every musical concept at you then "aight get that in your skull, tell me when ur ready I'll match you against Beethoven".
  It's 2023, other than ultra-basic ones (FOOTSIES), not a single fighting game could pretend being beginner friendly. I yet have to find one that teaches the player to learn everything and know how to use all the options together by progressively unlocking moves and introducing scenarios with multiple ones involved at once rather than throwing everything separately.
  
  
• The backseat loli at the end of each fight is the definition of "useless". Fine players know how to play, and it is nothing but annoying for a nub.
  Simplified inputs aren't what I'd call beginner friendly neither. It's like getting a better music software ; nice, but you'll wanna know how to write music first.
  
  
• The tuto is way worse than the prequel, which was already quite bad while being one of the best of the genre.
  
  
• Even hellish bots (highest level) are far from every single fight I got in green-gem ranked ("I know a bit about fighting games" and lower).

It's not like no beginner content makes this game bad, it's just that still today, nearly every fighting game (hi footsies) beginner experience will be "get rekt for 10s of hours before eventually understanding the stuff".

In the eyes of a new player, is it worth not getting humiliated for that long without even knowing whether it's gonna be enjoyable once all the work paid off, and often not even knowing what to do to actually get better?
Why not just picking up some other game that will provide quick fun without such a long struggle?


I mean it's 2023, the gaming industry met psychology since quite some time (just look at live service marketting tricks), and fighting games themselves are about understanding and predicting the opponent, yet the newbie experience as always is "Welcome, you're gonna get stomped for a long time without ever getting rewarded, before you even know whether you like it. Here's the pdf manual, but you'll wanna check online anyways since the tradition forbid us to include frame data and character strategies in the game"

Am I raging? Of course. I do wanna love fighting games, but each time I give it a try, it burps in my powerless face because "git gud" and doesn't encourage in any way to stick on it, then I drop off once again.

quit giving up so easily and actually practice a bit

and vote for me bby

[Bigamo]

Publicado originalmente por THE_DONALD:

Publicado originalmente por Eglaios:

Maybe it wasn't meant for beginners, but we're talking about a FG that's new, is quite alive and has a free version.
If anything and with Riot's fighter coming soon, that's a perfect occasion to introduce the genre to lots of new people

But if anything, "beginner friendly" is not what I'd say of such game.

• Near-zero assistance for newbies. It's like throwing every musical concept at you then "aight get that in your skull, tell me when ur ready I'll match you against Beethoven".
  It's 2023, other than ultra-basic ones (FOOTSIES), not a single fighting game could pretend being beginner friendly. I yet have to find one that teaches the player to learn everything and know how to use all the options together by progressively unlocking moves and introducing scenarios with multiple ones involved at once rather than throwing everything separately.
  
  
• The backseat loli at the end of each fight is the definition of "useless". Fine players know how to play, and it is nothing but annoying for a nub.
  Simplified inputs aren't what I'd call beginner friendly neither. It's like getting a better music software ; nice, but you'll wanna know how to write music first.
  
  
• The tuto is way worse than the prequel, which was already quite bad while being one of the best of the genre.
  
  
• Even hellish bots (highest level) are far from every single fight I got in green-gem ranked ("I know a bit about fighting games" and lower).

It's not like no beginner content makes this game bad, it's just that still today, nearly every fighting game (hi footsies) beginner experience will be "get rekt for 10s of hours before eventually understanding the stuff".

In the eyes of a new player, is it worth not getting humiliated for that long without even knowing whether it's gonna be enjoyable once all the work paid off, and often not even knowing what to do to actually get better?
Why not just picking up some other game that will provide quick fun without such a long struggle?


I mean it's 2023, the gaming industry met psychology since quite some time (just look at live service marketting tricks), and fighting games themselves are about understanding and predicting the opponent, yet the newbie experience as always is "Welcome, you're gonna get stomped for a long time without ever getting rewarded, before you even know whether you like it. Here's the pdf manual, but you'll wanna check online anyways since the tradition forbid us to include frame data and character strategies in the game"

Am I raging? Of course. I do wanna love fighting games, but each time I give it a try, it burps in my powerless face because "git gud" and doesn't encourage in any way to stick on it, then I drop off once again.

quit giving up so easily and actually practice a bit

and vote for me bby

I am not giving up, i am playing siegfried here in S, in the middle of the sea of Niers, Belials and Viras.

But it is DF Duel all over again, people complaining that the combos are way too long and in 2 weeks there are only the combo lovers playing, i don't combo, actually shorters combos do as much damage, if not even more, but it is boring to keep watching the game. And the corner pressure is out of control, i was watching the tournaments online and it is already getting to this point in tournaments also.

[Cipher Esteria]

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

All small niche games with the exception of the 2 you mentioned and were NOT true, no SF or Tekken goes over 10 hit combo without counting multiple hits of the same skill as a "Hit".

Blazblue is forgotten and never was a huge hit.
Guilt Gear proves my point as it became mainstream and a huge finantial success in strive as it shortenned the combos.
Marvel vs Capcom was a huge arcade success and now is played only by those handfull of guys that actually like infinite combos.
Melty Blood is not even close of being a huge game.

The 2 huge successes of today are games with shortened combos, Strive And SF VI.

SF Alpha 1,2,3 all easaly have Combos going into the high 20s up to lower 40s.
They are also what spawned Anime Fighter, as the developers who made those games later formed ASW.
Tekken also had extremely long combos in both Tekken 6 and Tag 2. Some Combos in Tekken 7 (specifically Geese,Eliza and Akuma) can easaly hit up to 30 hits.
Furthermore you just made your own point mood, there aren't any combos in GBVS going into 30 individual hits, most Specials are multi hit.
I can easaly get a 36 "hit" Combo as Yuel what will literally be 4 Buttons and 4 Specials.

Blazblue is still active and still Japans biggest anime game. Rollback was all that titel needed and it is still alive.
Guilty Gear is a successe because ASW finaly did marketing outside of Japan. The majority of gameplay changes are wildly hated and they made the game more complex in areas where it wasn't complex before, for some reason.
MvC died because of Capcoms greed and incompetence, also DBFZ coming out at the same time didn't help, as it was a vastly superior game in about every way.
Also a game with extremely long combos, DBFZ.
The OG Melty Blood is still big, both in Arcades and on it's own launcher. What is where the vast majority of people play, as it's free, gets continued updates and has excellent rollback.

Strive still has long combos, often longer than GBVS, not to mention that Strive combos have neither a combo limit not hitstun decay, so you can often just juggle with the same thing 10x in a row.
SF6 honey moon phase is over and the game is lukewarm at best at this stage.
The game also has very long combos, I saw JP keeping people in hitstun for up to 20 seconds.

So please, at least have SOME form of clue what you're talking about, because at this stage, your average Blazblue combo is shorter than a SF Combo.

[Bigamo]

Publicado originalmente por Mr.Cipher:

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

All small niche games with the exception of the 2 you mentioned and were NOT true, no SF or Tekken goes over 10 hit combo without counting multiple hits of the same skill as a "Hit".

Blazblue is forgotten and never was a huge hit.
Guilt Gear proves my point as it became mainstream and a huge finantial success in strive as it shortenned the combos.
Marvel vs Capcom was a huge arcade success and now is played only by those handfull of guys that actually like infinite combos.
Melty Blood is not even close of being a huge game.

The 2 huge successes of today are games with shortened combos, Strive And SF VI.

SF Alpha 1,2,3 all easaly have Combos going into the high 20s up to lower 40s.
They are also what spawned Anime Fighter, as the developers who made those games later formed ASW.
Tekken also had extremely long combos in both Tekken 6 and Tag 2. Some Combos in Tekken 7 (specifically Geese,Eliza and Akuma) can easaly hit up to 30 hits.
Furthermore you just made your own point mood, there aren't any combos in GBVS going into 30 individual hits, most Specials are multi hit.
I can easaly get a 36 "hit" Combo as Yuel what will literally be 4 Buttons and 4 Specials.

Blazblue is still active and still Japans biggest anime game. Rollback was all that titel needed and it is still alive.
Guilty Gear is a successe because ASW finaly did marketing outside of Japan. The majority of gameplay changes are wildly hated and they made the game more complex in areas where it wasn't complex before, for some reason.
MvC died because of Capcoms greed and incompetence, also DBFZ coming out at the same time didn't help, as it was a vastly superior game in about every way.
Also a game with extremely long combos, DBFZ.
The OG Melty Blood is still big, both in Arcades and on it's own launcher. What is where the vast majority of people play, as it's free, gets continued updates and has excellent rollback.

Strive still has long combos, often longer than GBVS, not to mention that Strive combos have neither a combo limit not hitstun decay, so you can often just juggle with the same thing 10x in a row.
SF6 honey moon phase is over and the game is lukewarm at best at this stage.
The game also has very long combos, I saw JP keeping people in hitstun for up to 20 seconds.

So please, at least have SOME form of clue what you're talking about, because at this stage, your average Blazblue combo is shorter than a SF Combo.

That's not true. Vira, Belial and others can combo you almost forever. And once in the corner the amount of pressure is way out of this world.

I just played another Siegfried in S, i lost 2-0 and had a lot of fun, more than when i face one of those neutral skippers and win by 2-0. The game was told to be heavilly neutral based and most of the characters people are actually playing simple skip neutral totally.

[Cipher Esteria]

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

That's not true. Vira, Belial and others can combo you almost forever. And once in the corner the amount of pressure is way out of this world.

Nothing the 2 have comes even close to 30 hit infinite combos, as you would call it.
If they keep reseting you, then you need to work on your defense.

I just played another Siegfried in S, i lost 2-0 and had a lot of fun, more than when i face one of those neutral skippers and win by 2-0. The game was told to be heavilly neutral based and most of the characters people are actually playing simple skip neutral totally.

Praises Siegfried the currently biggest Gorilla with halfscreen Neutral Skips.
Calls Belial and his range of 2 cagliostres a Neutral Skipper.

I assume you don't know what Neutral Skipping means.
I rather suggest you work on your spacing and learn how to properly defend yourself over blaming others characters for your shortcomings.

[Bigamo]

Publicado originalmente por Mr.Cipher:

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

That's not true. Vira, Belial and others can combo you almost forever. And once in the corner the amount of pressure is way out of this world.

Nothing the 2 have comes even close to 30 hit infinite combos, as you would call it.
If they keep reseting you, then you need to work on your defense.

I just played another Siegfried in S, i lost 2-0 and had a lot of fun, more than when i face one of those neutral skippers and win by 2-0. The game was told to be heavilly neutral based and most of the characters people are actually playing simple skip neutral totally.

Praises Siegfried the currently biggest Gorilla with halfscreen Neutral Skips.
Calls Belial and his range of 2 cagliostres a Neutral Skipper.

I assume you don't know what Neutral Skipping means.
I rather suggest you work on your spacing and learn how to properly defend yourself over blaming others characters for your shortcomings.

Teleporting is not neutral skipping? LOL

[Peddie]

So be honest, are you trying to get featured on Scrubquotes or is this a legit sentiment you're harbouring?

[Cipher Esteria]

Publicado originalmente por Bigamo:

Teleporting is not neutral skipping? LOL

You get hit by Belials Teleport?
The same teleport that was often and probably still is rated the worst Special in the game?

I don't think the problem is neutral skipper, I think

[Bigamo]

ok, enjoy, in 2 weeks probably the game will be totally dead and you guys will be asking why, its DNF Duel all over again.

[Niamak]

Anyone heard of Fantasy Strike ? It's a beginner friendly FG.

[Peddie]

Go play SF2 on Fightcade and you can feel true joy, safe from combos, you'll just have to deal with the randomised stun values on hit. No need to be angry on the forums, go forth and be happy.

[Thine Very Own, Nemesis~]

This game is probably the noob friendlist game I've ever seen